[VP17] Timeline Playback Performance for multiple tracks [.321 update]

AVsupport wrote on 8/23/2019, 6:22 AM

On my machine, VP17 has made a huge difference in playback speed for XAVCS material. Last project I did I was able to use 1080 and 4K footage natively (on a 1080/25 timeline) and throw some colour grading fx around, no problem.

What I noticed though when I embedded a pre-cut interview as a nested timeline underneath, the performance dropped quite significantly. Even though the actual video is not being seen for the most parts. Muting the video track fixed those issues.

Leads me to believe VP is wasting resources on computing whats not being seen anyway. Perhaps there's better ways 'ignoring' video tracks if they're 100% masked by the above, thus massively accelerating timeline playback. mm?

Last changed by AVsupport

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Comments

pierre-k wrote on 8/23/2019, 6:50 AM

yes I also noticed. Already in older versions. If there are other events under the active track, such as interviews, the playback entitlement increases. Your suggestion is great. Repairing would save a lot of performance.

AVsupport wrote on 9/26/2019, 6:26 AM

unfortunately, this issue is still persistent in version .321

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

AVsupport wrote on 9/26/2019, 6:27 AM

add to that: the occasional frame drops where clip cuts occur ie. not enough read-ahead. ;-) thanks team

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

AVsupport wrote on 10/6/2019, 6:16 PM

Is anyone else seeing this? ..having a problem with this? Or am I just barking up the wrong tree?

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/7/2019, 2:36 AM

Just did a very quick test in VP17 b321. I put a VEGAS Swirl effect on a video event and playback slowed to around 4fps. If obscure that event with another video event on a higher track, playback returns to full 30fps, without muting the first track.

AVsupport wrote on 10/7/2019, 7:31 PM

Thanks @Nick Hope how is that when you use a underlying nested timeline instead? (I edited the Interview first and used it as a nested timeline below, adding track FX on the master project)

Last changed by AVsupport on 10/7/2019, 11:55 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

john_dennis wrote on 10/8/2019, 12:00 AM

"...how is that when you use a underlying nested timeline instead?"

I suspect this is what you are seeing.

@AVsupport @Nick Hope

Nick Hope wrote on 10/8/2019, 1:55 AM

Thanks @Nick Hope how is that when you use a underlying nested timeline instead? (I edited the Interview first and used it as a nested timeline below, adding track FX on the master project)

If my nested timeline, with the Swirl effect, is on a track below then again it doesn't seem to affect playback:

john_dennis wrote on 10/8/2019, 2:14 AM

Put this project on a track above UHD media. Add a second copy, overlap, and reverse the second copy. The preview should struggle.

Move these two nested projects to the bottom-most track. The preview will likely still slow down.

Delete the bottom-most track and the preview will return to normal. 

Nick Hope wrote on 10/8/2019, 2:36 AM

Put this project on a track above UHD media. Add a second copy, overlap, and reverse the second copy. The preview should struggle.

Move these two nested projects to the bottom-most track. The preview will likely still slow down.

Delete the bottom-most track and the preview will return to normal.

No slow-down here:

[Edit: Excuse the licking. Only just noticed it haha 😂😂)

john_dennis wrote on 10/8/2019, 2:57 AM

No slow-down here either moving the nested projects beneath the main track if I start a new project. You do believe what you saw in my previous video with a more complex project? I'll look more closely at the larger project tomorrow.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/8/2019, 3:03 AM

No slow-down here either moving the nested projects beneath the main track if I start a new project. You do believe what you saw in my previous video with a more complex project? I'll look more closely at the larger project tomorrow.

If you faked it then you're even smarter than I thought John.

I'll try it in VP15, same as your demo...

Nick Hope wrote on 10/8/2019, 4:25 AM

So I repeated the test in VP15 and there is no slow-down if the nested titles are on a track below the UHD video. That applies whether compoundplug.dll or so4compoundplug.dll is decoding the video. GPU acceleration OFF.

AVsupport wrote on 10/8/2019, 7:03 AM

very interesting! in my situation I have a recorded 4K interview below nested with some track FX applied and some overlay on top. I shall try to provide some example of that tomorrow ;-)

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

john_dennis wrote on 10/8/2019, 7:12 PM

Here is a Vegas Pro 15 project with assets that consistently fails for me. Sorry about the file size. Don't expect any artistry.

@AVsupport @Nick Hope

AVsupport wrote on 10/8/2019, 11:00 PM

@john_dennis @Nick Hope Here's the situation as I see it: I have looped a relevant section, first with bottom nested video track muted. FYI, top track is 1080, bottom 4K, note 1080 'full project size' preview window)

  1. What I see is, where the next clip starts, VP drops frames until it buffers and 'catches up' again. ie, the PC is fast enough, but there's not sufficient preloading / look-ahead... I'm sure this could be avoided..
  2. Once you enable the underlying track, even though it is not visible at all, the frame rate drops extensible hence making smooth preview impossible. This is an absolute waste of resources

(sorry about colour etc this was recorded using nvidia downsizing from 4K screen..)

Last changed by AVsupport on 10/8/2019, 11:02 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/9/2019, 5:22 AM

So I've worked out that it's the presence of a track FX on the upper track that makes the media on the lower track start affecting the playback smoothness. Even a default Levels FX will do it. Remove the track FX and the upper track plays as smoothly as it would on its own.

This behaviour goes back at least as far as VP10.

I tried a video output FX and no problem.

There may be some logic or necessity in this, but I can't think what. I suggest the developers consider changing this behaviour if they can. Once others confirm here, I will raise it with them.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/9/2019, 5:35 AM

...I suppose track FX can affect opacity, and that it may be difficult for the compositing logic to know whether it does or not. I guess as soon as you have some transparency, the lower tracks need to be fully decoded. But it should be possible to compile an internal list of opaque-only track FX (i.e. most of them), and have the lower tracks ignored if only those FX are on the upper track.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/9/2019, 11:08 AM

We should give the developers a head start by making a list of FX that might cause transparency, and those that definitely can't.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2019, 12:44 PM

You are correct that placing an FX on Track 2 (in this case) causes the lower tracks to affect the preview speed. That's a fairly long list of fXs to go through, I'll start now with alphabetical A.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2019, 2:33 PM

Here are the lists up until the time that I was forced to do something else.

List of Event fX that DON'T affect preview speed

Black Restore - Any Setting

List of Event fX that DO affect preview speed

Add Noise - Noise Level = 0

Black and White - Blend Amount=0-1

Border - Reset to None

Brightness and Contrast

Broadcast Colors - Default

Bump Map - Default

Channel Blend - Default

Chroma Blur - anthing above 0 is a big hit to preview

Chroma Keyer - Hangs Vegas Pro 15-416 at Default

Color Balance - Default

Color Corrector - Default

Color Corrector (Secondary) - Default

Color Curves - Default

Color Match - Nothing Selected

Convolution Kernal - Default

Cookie Cutter - Default

Crop - Default. Note:with certain crops the bottom track exposes the animation. So, preview is affected as one might expect.

Defocus - Default is a big hit to preview performance. The default setting is rather extreme. Radius = 0 still interacts with the lower track.

Deform - Reset to None hits preview performance hard even with the lower track muted.

Fill Light - Default interacts with the lower track

Film Effects - Greater than 0 for Grain, Tint and Amount

Film Grain - Subtle    Hits preview and gets worse when the lower track is present

Sharpen - Default

AVsupport wrote on 10/9/2019, 4:25 PM

Thanks for cracking the nut guys! Did you try Event-FX also? note to myself: must check..

I think it should be a possible e to create a logic where a clip is tested for opacity, and if the answer is 100% the rest of the processing can be skipped..but maybe I'm naive in thinking that; That could be an easy way out having to blacklist individual FX.. however,

enticing more other crew to check this would be good!

about the issue with 'dropping frames between clips': this is probably better dealt with in a different thread..

/ADD: as expected, problem persists with effects placed as Event FX instead as well...

btw Nick, my FX on the top level are 'ColorFast2' and 'Sharpen'; of which neither has a factual effect on opacity me thinks..-??

Last changed by AVsupport on 10/9/2019, 7:01 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2019, 7:12 PM

Sharpen interacted with the track below when added to the event. Updated my list.

Workaround: If you Ungroup the video from the audio for your track underneath, spilt and remove just the video where it's not visible on the output, your preview performance should return to "your normal".