I wonder if support could come via something along the lines of what cineform did for HDV with Vegas?

> Expecting Sony to answer this question just a
> few days after NAB is a little unreasonable

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with NAB. The DVCPro formats have been around for, what, two years now? FCP supports it.

But soon, thanks to Panasonic, we'll be able to shoot DVCPro without buying a gazillion dollar Varicam. Panasonic has been leaking news of this camera for months now, and Sony should have been preparing a response to the single question that this forum thread poses. I'm actually surprised (and disappointed) that they didn't announce support for this at NAB.

I think it has a lot to do with Panasonic announcing an affordable DVCProHD camera at NAB.
Prior to NAB, how many people actually own a camera that shoots DVCProHD? And right this very second, how many people own a camera that shoots DVCProHD? It's a great format, one that is used in certain sectors, but most of those people who have owned the camera aren't using sub 1K editing software packages.

On the other hand, now Panny has announced a cam that has a more affordable price tag, which means it will see greater saturation in the market. Which further means that sub 1K editing packages will need to support it. Even though the announcement of the cam and it's accompanying format have been highly anticipated, there was, and as of this moment still is, no pressing need to support DVCProHD. Just as there was no real need to support the JVC HDV cams 18 months ago. Yes, the format existed, but the penetration was minimal. Now HDV penetration isn't minimal, and soon, DVCProHD will no longer be minimal.
It would have been nice for Sony to announce DVCProHD support along with Vegas 6 at NAB, but the fact of the matter is, Panny hadn't announced it, it's not shipping yet, and there are other fish to fry at the moment. Hence my reference to NAB.

I think Spot hit it on the nose---NLE developing is a business. If the folks at Sony think that there is a profit to be made by making Vegas more Catholic in format support, then they will do so. If there is no money to be made then they will not. Then of course there is the third possibility---they miss the boat--make an error in predicting the market----I think wanting an answer in a couple of weeks is pushing the envelope a bit.

Yes - I guess Spot DID hit it on the nose: Vegas is a 'consumer/prosumer DV editing solution' with some advanced features.

I think if SoFo was still at the helm they'd be all over DVCPRO support.

> no pressing need to support DVCProHD

I think there IS a need if Sony wants to compete with other non-linear solutions that DO offer DVCPRO support. I don't expect them to support it now, I just expect them to say whether or not they intend to support it.

I have friends and asscoiates who own Varicams, and soon we'll all know somebody who owns a HDX200.

Since I'm not a full time editor, the v6 upgrade represents a continued commitment to the Vegas product. To me the upgrade represents trust. I've used Vegas since v3, and I can get by with v5 just fine probably.

"I don't expect them to support it now, I just expect them to say whether or not they intend to support it."

Let them do their cost and licensing research and then expect an announcement. The worst thing they can do right now is say they intend to support it only to hit a licensing or implementation snag and have everyone who was counting on it end up pissed off.

IF there were a 3rd party capture/print module to get files on and off of the computer and IF the codec were something Vegas could access, you'd be able to do DVCPRO HD in Vegas 4, 5, or 6.

DVCPRO50 currently "works" similarly- all you need is the codec installed to edit the files, i/o is handled by something external.

Rex,

I thought Vegas was "format agnostic " Or perhaps you mean small "c" catholic. ;)

I know a guy who is both a Republican and a democrat.

>>I will bet that Sony never made a VHS camera while they were still pushing consumer beta players. (2 different divisions there too). <<

No, you'd lose that bet. Sony didn't discontinue Betamax VCRs until 2002.

I think Spot said it brilliantly: even though DVCPRO-HD has been around for four years, it's likely few VariCam owner/operators were using sub-$1,000 NLE programs to edit their footage. The game is, however, changing. Previous to the introduction of the AJ-HD1200A deck, there was no way to transfer your footage via firewire to a common desktop computer. Now there is. The democratization of the format began with that deck, and FCP-HD. Now with the ability to plug a P2 card directly into your laptop, or the camera straight in via firewire, there will be much more demand for editing programs in this price range.

The mass adoption of the format will likely begin when the camera is introduced. I would be exceptionally content if Vegas were to say "by the time that camera's on the market, we will fully support both DVCPRO-50 and DVCPRO-HD".

SonyEPM, I'm not 100% sure I follow what you're saying here. Are you saying that someone external, like CineForm, could implement a third-party solution for capture, and that if there was a public-domain codec, then that footage would be editable in Vegas? While that would be better than getting kicked in the head, it would be infinitely preferable to have the support integrated into the main application. Device control, print to tape, batch capture, preview on the firewire output, and an -HD and -50 version of the superb Vegas DV codec are what we'd want, of course. Not to sound greedy, but of course we'd want integration at least as comprehensive as that offered by the competition.

Can you clarify -- are there any reasons we should expect that such support would *not* be forthcoming?

Again, sounds like an opportunity for 3rd party support. My guess is Sony views Panasonic (and subsequently DVCPRO HD) as" the competition" regardless of the separation of divisions so oft spoke of in this very forum.

Someone earlier alluded to the term "prosumer." I clearly see the words "Professional HD Video and Audio Production" in the Vegas splash screen. To me, using the term "professional" implies a certain level of, well, professionalism. Avid, FCP and Premier are marketed as professional solution. So is Vegas. Please don't let it become the next Xpri: a product on one cares about.

I actually think TimTyler hit it one the head...

At least that's what history says with regards to the Pana Agdvx100 workflow integration into Vegas. It was as though Sonic Foundry identified a "niche" market which would translate into immediate sales and pounced on the opportunity..and judging by results, they did it absolutely right.

So, how does Sony envisage DVCPRO HD in Vegas market segment? Up until now it obviously hasn't been a priority (or has it indeed been a corporate lobbying to push hdv?)...I wonder if the management doesn't share Sonic Foundry's vision and market hunger!

Seriously, that camera is going to be a major breakthrough isn't it? And I won't go into techie talk (I profess ignorance) but isn't the theory that one plugs hard disks directly into computers? so where's the need for capture thingies?? Don't you just have the files immediately online ready for Vegas????? or that's what one would hope for anyway...

PDB, exaclty right about no capture. That is a major issue. Especially at 100Mbps, capture could take a long time (not even real-time, slower) and require way too much CPU. Third party tack-ons won't do the trick. I guess I am going to hope that someone at Sony notices this thread and decides to deal with it. But you can be sure that before I spend more money on Vegas training, support, and third party tools I will want an answer.

Heres a question. How many people are going to drop the estimated $20k (cam and cards) to get the camera when it is released in November (assuming release makes target date)? I just dont see the numbers to justify making sure Vegas supports it when its released.

I honestly would rather see Sony implement Avid's DNxHD codec (excellent quality) before they tacke the DVCproHD issue. Then I could always export from Avid to DNxHD and use it in Vegas if I ever get a camera like that.

Thats me--depending on the issue. I am very much a democrat when it comes to our beloved buffoon from Crawford.

Wasn't anyone listening? Sony reminded you that you can edit it in Vegas, if Panasonic had a CODEC that Vegas could access and a capture utility, Vegas could edit it. Maybe someone should talk to Panny? Some company is going to have to provide the tools. Why not Panasonic if they want folks to edit and use their format?

> estimated $20k (cam and cards)

The HDX200 with 2 x 8GB cards will be $10k. Or $6k w/o the cards; it'll record DVCPRO directly to disk via firewire.

16GB gives you sixteen minutes of recording. Then you have to transfer them to HD, reformat them, record for another 16 minutes etc... Sounds like a crappy work flow that will make the shooting process even longer.

Well.....it's not THAT far off of working with an Arri 35 where you only have 11 minutes. :-) But....DVCPro HD ain't 35mm either.

Not by a long shot, but it'll be easier to lift :-)

Your analogy is pretty good. How much are mags for a Arri 16sr?

My guess is that you'll want maybe three cards on the shoot and then you'll want to hire a "loader" to download the footage and clear the cards for their next use.

Rob Mack

16GB gives you sixteen minutes of recording. Then you have to transfer them to HD, reformat them, record for another 16 minutes etc... Sounds like a crappy work flow that will make the shooting process even longer.

But you'll get more time if you shoot 720p at 24fps...

Well, I went ahead and upgraded to Vegas 6+DVDA 3 because the upgrade costs are only 1/10 or less of what it is going to cost to move to another software that will edit DVCPROHD. Not even considering the hardware costs...

> Sounds like a crappy work flow that will make
> the shooting process even longer.

I suppose this argument will always exist, however it’s still easier than working in previous HD or film camera environments. No tapes to switch or mags to load. P2 cards can also be hot-swapped, so a 3rd card and a laptop is all you need for those corporate meetings when you can’t stop the camera. Also, P2 cards will come down in price and grow in capacity over time just like any other memory card media.