Writing DVD's that will work

johnmeyer wrote on 3/21/2006, 4:20 PM

While many things can cause DVDs to be unplayable on regular DVD players, by far the most common problem is using bad media. What type and brand of DVD media are you using (e.g., Maxell DVD+R)? Most private label store brands are absolutely horrible and will often produce exactly the result you are experiencing. If you do a search in this forum using the word "media," and restrict your search to just the subject line, you will find many threads discussing this issue, along with recommendations of which media are good to use, and which ones you should avoid.

This is not some Internet nuttiness: The problems that result from using inferior media are quite real, and pervasive.

Of course it is also possible that you have a problem with your burner and, although even less likely, it is possible that there is something wrong with how you are preparing the DVD. However, I'd give 5:1 odds that the problem is the blank disks you are using.

Billae wrote on 3/21/2006, 6:14 PM

I duplicate DVD's for a living and find that the minus R are the best for cross compatability. Be sure not to be using stick on labels. That would sometimes cause them not to play. Instead, get the printable discs and a printer that will print directly onto the disc. Make sure to use good quality discs. I use Ridata and Taiyo Yuden. Try slowing down your burn speed. It really helps. If you are still having problems then I would check your burner for problems. Good luck and Happy burning.

Harold Brown wrote on 3/21/2006, 7:29 PM

I did a firmware upgrade and that helped. However updating the firmware is something you have to be very careful of. No mistakes and follow the directions exactly.

Serena wrote on 3/21/2006, 9:53 PM

I think you should be rendering to mpeg2 if the DVDs are to play on regular players. Computers play .avi as a matter of course. Perhaps someone else can comment on this.

DGates wrote on 3/21/2006, 10:10 PM

Great advice from all the others. It's the kind of thing that takes time to figure out what works best.

A bitrate that isn't too high (8.5 or less)
Good media (not crap like Meritline)
AC-3 audio
Generally, the slower the burn the better (4x or less)
etc

LeslieD wrote on 3/24/2006, 9:33 AM

Thanks to everyone for some GREAT very thorough advice. I appreciate all the time you guys have spent trying to help me. :) I am going to order some better quality blank DVD's right away. It makes sense that bad media would cause problems such as this, but I hadn't put much thought into that and instead just assumed I was doing something wrong. If that is it, what a simple problem!

I have been burning at the slowest speed possible (1X). I don't know; is that a little overboard?

Harold, I haven't looked into a firmware upgrade; in fact, I am not sure what that is, but I will look into it. Thanks for the heads up.

I would really like my DVD's to be able to play on BOTH computers and regular players. How should I render my projects in order to have that most luck with this?

Lili wrote on 3/24/2006, 10:16 AM

I used to have the same problem until I switched to using the +R DVD's. The -R's would play on my computer, but not the TV. (?)

I usually use the Memorex brand, and I render them to mpeg2 before burning with DVDA. Last time I went to buy some they didn't have Memorex and I got Verbatim +R and they work on both computer and TV as well.

Former user wrote on 3/24/2006, 10:23 AM

LIke was stated earlier,

1) Use quality DVD media. Generally, avoid store brands, the best are Taiyo Yuden and Ritek.
2) 1X is a bit overkill and some disks will not burn correctly at 1X.
3) -R seems to be the most universal format.
4) Allow the DVD to cool after burning before attempting to play (this is based on my own anecdotal experience, not an official thing)
5) Try bitrates around 6 and see if that helps.
6) Try not to use every space available on the disk, allow some headroom (again anecdotal)
7) Be aware that there will always be a DVD player that will not play your disk. That is just life. Purchase a newer DVD player before assuming it is a DVD burn problem.

Dave T2

Dave T2

riredale wrote on 3/24/2006, 10:47 AM

It's important to separate common internet myth from fact.

Do yourself a favor and download the free "Nero CD-DVD Speed" (v4) and see for yourself what factors affect burn quality. My own observations:

(1) Burn speed is irrelevant as long as you burn no higher than the authorized speed for the burner/disk combination. After all, that's why burners and disks have limits in the first place--it's based on research.

(2) Quality media is a MAJOR factor. I've used Ritek for years but recently switched; Taiyo Yuden TYG02 (8x) DVD-R blanks are far superior yet are still about $.35 each in quantity.

(3) You can burn to the very limit of the disk with no problem. I've successfully burned many disks to 99.9% of maximum capacity. Nonetheless, if there are any problems with the media brand, they will probably happen at the edge.

(4) Labels aren't tolerated very well by some players. I like the look of a well-printed glossy label and I use them all the time, but there are a few players that just don't work well with them.

All these observations are based on using the Nero tool and actually observing the error rates under different circumstances.

johnmeyer wrote on 3/24/2006, 11:14 AM

I second everything riredale said. Excellent post!

LeslieD wrote on 3/28/2006, 9:35 AM

Thanks again to everyone! I am so glad that I can learn from you all; some of these things could take years for me to learn! I am still working your suggestions. I will let you know how it is coming!

LeslieD wrote on 4/13/2006, 9:13 AM

Thanks to everyone for all the help. It has taken me awhile to act on all of your suggestions. I am now using Taiyo Yuden TYG02 8x DVD-R and started burning at 4x. I am not using labels, so that couldn't be the problem. I tried rendering as mpg2 and AC-3 Audio, among other things. I am around 6.0 - 7.0 as far as bitrate goes. I even allow my DVD plenty of time to cool. I believe that takes care of everyone's advice (minus the firmware upgrade that Harold suggested)

I am really not sure how to know if I need to do a firmware upgrade. How did you know you needed it Harold?

Yesterday, I finally got my DVD to play on a regular set DVD player. YEA!!! It is still having problems. I think I am having a hard time with my links because the menu shows only after the DVD and sometimes when I push play the screen will go white for about 10 seconds and then it will go back to the DVD menu page. Any suggestions for this problem?

I really appreciate all the help you all have been. Thanks for everything.

Leslie

craftech wrote on 4/13/2006, 10:34 AM

1. List your burner and firmware version
2. Burner program and version
3. Program you are encoding Mpeg2 and AC3 with and whether CBR or VBR and all settings for same.
4. Model of DVD player you are using to test it on.

John

Tattoo wrote on 4/13/2006, 11:10 AM

Leslie,

Unfortunately I don't have any advice on why it's still not working for you. However, I can't resist throwing my 2 cents in on burn speed with DVDA2. I burned a xmas disc for all of our relatives at 8x speed which worked fine on my component DVD player, but not on a single one of theirs (like 8-9 different folks). I then burned 4 test discs of the exact same VOB files, all at 4x speed but with two variables: either the original disc media or a different brand, and either burned with DVDA2 or Nero. Sent them to my sister to validate. All four worked like a champ; so the only difference was 4x speed instead of 8x speed. Speed DOES count!

Welcome to Vegas & this forum, BTW. Vegas is a great program, and this forum is fantastic! This forum is largely what convinced me to go with Vegas over other options. It's a great place to lurk about and learn stuff. Download some of the videos posted by users for some inspiration on what can be accomplished.

Brian

Jayster wrote on 4/13/2006, 8:29 PM

1) Use quality DVD media. Generally, avoid store brands, the best are Taiyo Yuden and Ritek.

Maybe this is true for single-layer Ritek DVDs, but for dual-layer Ritek discs my experience has been terrible. I tried copying a couple system backup files using Ritek DVD-R DL discs. Nero (and the drive) only allowed 2x speed. But that's the least of my problems with this media. One good burn and four coasters later ($12 down the drain) I decided not to rely on this garbage disc if I ever need to restore my system.

Checked on a website referenced by Craftech earlier today, and everyone gave poor ratings to this disc. Media ID is Ritek P01. My burner is a brand new (firmware updated) Asus 1608 P2S (which is a reselling of the Pioneer DVR-110).

farss wrote on 4/13/2006, 8:52 PM

I've had many disks fail to burn correctly in my DVD duplicator when I was trying to run it at 4x. Switched back to 8x and not a problem since.
Be aware the disk manufactures (TY) advice against buring 8x media in 4x drives unless the drive is specifically qualified to burn 8x media, most 4x drives will NOT correctly burn 8x media (damn). Burning 8x media in a 8x drive at 4x should be ok, well I've read nothing to indicate otherwise.

Bob.

farss wrote on 4/13/2006, 8:54 PM

One thing to factor in, when a DVD player starts to fail the first thing to go is the ability to play burnt DVDs. After a while it'll fail to play pressed DVDs, the CD playing capability will still survive for a long time as that uses a different laser.
I've wasted quite a bit of time trying to work out what was wrong with my burning until I realised the player was dying.

Bob.

Jayster wrote on 4/14/2006, 11:42 AM

I've had many disks fail to burn correctly in my DVD duplicator when I was trying to run it at 4x. Switched back to 8x and not a problem since. Be aware the disk manufactures (TY) advice against buring 8x media in 4x drives unless the drive is specifically qualified to burn 8x media, most 4x drives will NOT correctly burn 8x media (damn). Burning 8x media in a 8x drive at 4x should be ok, well I've read nothing to indicate otherwise.

In my particular case I don't think this was the issue. The drive I am using (Asus 1608P2S which is a resell of Pioneer DVR-110) is rated 16x for DVD+/-R, and 8x for Dual-Layer. Using the Ritek dual-layer disc in Nero, I am not permitted to attempt anything faster than 2x.

From what I've read elsewhere, drive manufacturers test their drives with a variety of media. They determine what is the fastest reliable speed for the given Media ID and then they mark this in their firmware (Media ID xyz = equals speed n). Programs like Nero read the max speed from the firmware and enforce it.

I don't wish attempting to drop to the next lowest speed (as some suggest) since that would be 1X. This would take forever buring an 8 GB dual-layer disc, and I've expended all 5 of the Ritek Dual Layer discs I purchased. Seeing that others rated this dual-layer media poorly, I'll take the advice to switch media. I saw that Verbatim is rated well for this drive (as per the Pioneer DVR-110 list; Asus doesn't publish a list). So I'll give Verbatim a shot. If they don't provide good results, I'll probably buy Taiyo-Yuden (which is a bit more expensive and rated equally with Verbatim for the DVR-110)

Jayster

riredale wrote on 4/14/2006, 3:59 PM

I'd second the motion. I too have read that Ritek is really terrible with dual-layer, while Verbatim +R double-layer 8x blanks are about as good as it gets. I've burned a couple of the Verbatim media and they seem to test and play great.

Best deal going for these media is usually at BestBuy. About every month or so they run a special--a 10-pack for $20.

LeslieD wrote on 4/27/2006, 3:25 PM

1. List your burner and firmware version.
Burner - Sony DVD RW-DW-D26A Version: 5.1.2535.0 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)

When I was doing research on the Internet about my burner, I found:
my burner is equal to the LiteOn DVD-Writers
There are no Firmware upgrades available
Known Firmware is JYS2, JYS3 (Mine is JYS2)

Is the only reason to upgrade my firmware to disable the region lock or are there more benefits?

So far, I've found that I can diable the region lock by using LtnRPC or downloading DVDFab Platium (a DVD copy software) I can flash or crossflash...I know that firmware is easy to mess up and can't be fixed, so I am waiting for advice before I take action on this. Thanks for the advice!

2. Burner program and version

DVD Architect 2.0

3. Program you are encoding Mpeg2 and AC3 with and whether CBR or VBR and all settings for same.

I have been rendering my projects as Mpeg2 and AC3 in Vegas and then using the Mpeg2 for video input and AC3 as the Audio Input in DVD Architect. I think I can also render the audio in DVD Architect as AC3. I have been using VBR (max -8,000,000, avg - 6,000,000, and min 192,000 bps)

4. Model of DVD player you are using to test it on.

2 different models:
Sony CD DVD Player DVP S300
Sony CD DVD Player DVP NS575P

The video tends to work on the second one...If I am having problems it is more likely to have problems on the first listed player. (Probably because it is quite a bit older)

craftech wrote on 4/27/2006, 4:21 PM

1. List your burner and firmware version.
Burner - Sony DVD RW-DW-D26A Version: 5.1.2535.0 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)

When I was doing research on the Internet about my burner, I found:
my burner is equal to the LiteOn DVD-Writers
=========
Yes it is a rebadged Lite-On 1673S. Although it is possible to flash it into a Lite-On burner you may not want to try it if you have never flashed one before.
Look this over first before you decide whether or not to try it. That Sony burner has been particularly troublesome for many people. The codes for the firmware are here. The Lite-On equivalent has been just as bad however.

If after this you decide to toss the Sony burner the NEC 3550A has been extremely reliable and cheap. Read the 613 reviews at that Newegg link.

-------

3. Program you are encoding Mpeg2 and AC3 with and whether CBR or VBR and all settings for same.

I have been rendering my projects as Mpeg2 and AC3 in Vegas and then using the Mpeg2 for video input and AC3 as the Audio Input in DVD Architect. I think I can also render the audio in DVD Architect as AC3. I have been using VBR (max -8,000,000, avg - 6,000,000, and min 192,000 bps)

======
I would recommend that you render using the DVDA NTSC video template using a Constant Bitrate of 8000 depending upon the length of the video. If it is an hour or so it should fit with no problem given a reasonably sized DVDA menu. Change the DC Coefficient to 10.

Render the AC3 audio to the equivalent DVDA NTSC audio template and put them both in the same folder so that DVDA associates the two files automatically.

When you burn the disc, the burn speed will make a difference depending upon the media and the burner. I would use DVDA for burning. I forgot to ask you which media you were using (the ID code on the disc that is).

Post that information when you find out and one of us can probably recommend a burn speed.

-------

Sony CD DVD Player DVP S300

Here is a media compatibility list for that unit. It's not that bad at all. If you get this all straightened out you should have no problems playing your DVDs on that unit.

John

riredale wrote on 4/27/2006, 6:22 PM

I'll second the Craftech advice about burners. I have one of the NEC 3550a units, and aside from the fact that it's a bit slower burning a disk at 8x than the Pioneer drives I had before, it's apparently a great burner.

Traditionally, hacked firmware has been used by some in the past for several reasons:

(1) region unlocking (You can play a USA disk on a European player)

(2) disabled riplock (Many drives would intentionally slow down the drive when ripping a DVD, presumably to make it more time-consuming to rip a commercial DVD)

(3) disabled burn speed limitations (experimenters could try to buy cheaper 2x blanks and burn them at 8x. Not usually a successful experiment).

LeslieD wrote on 4/28/2006, 10:47 AM

Great advice! Thanks.

After looking at the reviews that you left me links to in your post, John. I am thinking that I will go ahead and trashing the Sony burner and go with the NEC 3550A. That burner is very cost efficient making it a little easier to come to that conclusion.

I appreciate you taking your time and putting all those links in your post, they really helped!

But I do have one more question: After upgrading to the NEC 3550A, am I going to have to go ahead and do the firmware upgrade in order to region unlock it?

LeslieD wrote on 4/28/2006, 10:49 AM

Also, thanks Riverdale for explaining why people upgrade their firmware. That helped alot!