Survey: What min/max levels does your cam shoot?

NickHope schrieb am 17.06.2011 um 11:24 Uhr

I'm keen to build up a list of what black and white levels various cameras are shooting by default, in order to reduce the guesswork when giving guidance about manipulating levels in post production.

I'm hoping to get results for a range of video cameras, dSLRs, Go Pro, phones, etc. etc.. The more devices we get results for, the better.

I am aware that minimum and maximum luminance levels can be adjusted on some cameras, so please set them to default settings as far as possible.

Black footage method: Cover the lens with the lens cap or whatever, close the iris, set gain to zero, set the shutter as fast as possible.

White footage method: Open the iris as wide as possible, set gain to max, set the shutter as slow as possible, remove any ND filters, point camera at sky.

Get the footage on the Vegas timeline, match the project settings to the footage, set pixel format to 8-bit and set preview quality to "Best (full)". Note the levels in the histogram video scope. If you put the cursor over the histogram, you can see the luminance value in yellow at the top right of the video scopes pane. Let's limit the results to the overall luminance (the white histogram) unless there is any wild difference between the R/G/B channels.

Here's the black histogram for my Sony Z1P HDV camera. This shows the minimum black at 17 and the black "peak" at 20:

White histogram for Z1P. White peak at 254. Maximum white at 255. (I have no idea what the secondary peaks are):

Black histogram for my Sony VX2000 DV camera. Minimum black at 13 and the black peak at 17. (Not sure why it's giving me the secondary peak):

White histogram for VX2000. White peak at 253. Maximum white at 254:

Please post the camera make and model, approx year of purchase, video format, minimum black level, black peak level, white peak level, and maximum white level in the following format. Feel free to post screenshots of the histogram too if you have the time and inclination.

Sony VX2000, 2003, DV, min black 17, black peak 20, white peak 254, max white 255.

Sony Z1P, 2006, HDV, min black 13, black peak 17, white peak 253, max white 254.

EDIT: I will maintain the results below as we go along.
EDIT: Note that many hybrid stills/video cameras shoot 0-255 for stills, but a more limited range for video. Please test the video mode.
EDIT: Please add what format your footage was shot in. This is especially important if, for example, it shoots both AVCHD and .mov. If possible, please test both formats since they may well be handled differently in Vegas (see Laurence's posts of 4/28/2014).

Cameras that shoot nominally 16-255

Apple iPhone 5 (JN-)(black actually a bit lower)
Canon XA10 (MikeLV)
Canon Legria HF S100 (Pete Ferg)
Canon Vixia HG21 (amendegw)
Canon Vixia HF G20 (aka Legria HF G25 in Europe)(Lou van Wijhe)
Canon Vixia HF G30 (OldSmoke)
Canon Vixia HF M40 (DaveT2)
Canon Vixia HF M52 (_Lenny_)
JVC GY-HM750 (Tech Diver) -(adjustable pedestal (min black level))
Panasonic AG-AC130 (amendegw)
Panasonic HC-X920 (fifonik)
Panasonic HDC-TM700 (amendegw)
Sony α6600 with Cine1 gamma (RogerS)
Sony α7R III (JN-)(16-255 with picture profile off)
Sony DCR-VX2000 (Nick Hope)
Sony DSC-RX10 IV (john_dennis)
Sony DSC-RX100 III (JN-)(Based on footage. Cam not available)
Sony DSC-TX55 (ritsmer)
Sony FDR-AX53 (frmax)
Sony FDR-AX100 (Rich Parry)
Sony HDR-HC3 (riredale)
Sony HDR-XR520 (PeterDuke)
Sony HVR-A1 (LoTN)
Sony HVR-FX1 (johnmeyer, riredale)
Sony HVR-Z1 (Nick Hope)
Sony HXR-NX70 (Stephen Crye)
Sony NEX-EA50 (malowz)
Sony NEX-FS100 (paul_w)
Sony NEX-FS700 (essami)
Sony SLT-A77 (Udi) - (actually a little darker - see post below)

Cameras that shoot nominally 0-255

Apple iPhone 4 (Grazie)
Canon EOS 5D MkII (farss)
Canon EOS 5D MkIII (JN-)
Canon EOS 70D* (malowz)(other settings can be created with Canon Picture Style Editor)
Canon EOS 80D (john_dennis)
Canon IXUS 510 HS (JN-)
Canon IXUS 900 Ti (JN-)
Canon IXUS V3 (JN-)
Canon Powershot G9 (john_dennis)
Canon Powershot G15 (john_dennis)
Canon Powershot S90 (JN-)
Dell Streak tablet/phone (Marco.)
GoPro HERO5 Black (Nick Hope)
Kodak PlayTouch (musicvid)
LG Optimus One P500 Android phone (Nick Hope)
Nikon D5100 .mov (Laurence)
Nokia N97 phone (JN-)
Panasonic HC-X1500E (diverG)
Panasonic HC-X2000E (diverG)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 (JN-)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 .mov (musicvid)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX80 (JN-)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ100 (JN-)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZX7 (JN-)
Samsung Galaxy II (megabit)
Samsung Galaxy S10 phone (JN-)
SN9C01 webcam (farss)
Sony DSC-RX100 IV (JN-)(Based on footage. Cam not available)
Sony DSC-RX100 V (JN-)(black at 7, not 0)

Cameras that shoot nominally 16-235

Apple iPhone 7 HEVC (Nick Hope)
Apple iPhone 8 HEVC (Nick Hope)
DJI OSMO (Nick Hope)
Huawei Mate 9 phone (Nick Hope)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 AVCHD (.mts) (Marco.)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 AVCHD (Laurence)
Sony α6500 with Cine3/4 gamma (RogerS)
Sony α6600 with Cine2/3/4 gamma (RogerS)
Sony DSC-RX100 (ritsmer) (Nick Hope's shoots 16-240)

Cameras with selectable levels range

Z-Cam E2 series (limited range recommended)(Howard-Vigorita)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ2500 (wwjd, Nick Hope)(16-235, 16-255 or 0-255)
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 (wwjd, Nick Hope)(16-235, 16-255 or 0-255)
Sony PMW-EX1 (farss)

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Kommentare

RogerS schrieb am 03.04.2021 um 08:50 Uhr

@Howard-Vigorita Is that for ProRes .mov files?

Just saw a post here that says

ProRes private frame headers have no tag (neither MOV container) to specify range. By design ProRes should be always limited range. You can send full range YUV data to it (ProRes also always stores data as YUV, even if you send RGB to it) and it will preserve it, but reading app will have no clue what is the real range of the file.

https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/733-davinci-resolve-now-allows-for-third-party-render/?pageNo=4

So I guess if you decide to choose other levels you should also manually set it in post.

Marco. schrieb am 03.04.2021 um 10:05 Uhr

"It is reported in cli@ metadata as "Color range: Limited" which Vegas does not seem to pick up on."

That should't make a difference in Vegas Pro. If a clip has no color range meta data or the meta data can't be read, Vegas Pro will process the video as if it is limited range when used in an 8 bit full level project.

Reyfox schrieb am 22.11.2021 um 17:54 Uhr

Not sure if it's listed:

Panasonic DC-G9 Luminance Levels: Selectable 0-255, 16-235, 16-255

rgr schrieb am 28.05.2022 um 20:47 Uhr

Sony DSC-HX90V:
- AVHCD (10/16-254) - no color range meta data in the mts file - "Color space: YUV, Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0, Bit depth: 8 bit"
- MP4 (10/16-254) - "Color range: limited" (Color range: Limited, Color primaries: BT.709, Transfer characteristics: xvYCC, Matrix coefficients: BT.709)

forart.it schrieb am 11.04.2024 um 11:52 Uhr

Hi everyone, we can confirm the 16-255 range for VIXIA HF100 cameras by Canon too.

Anyway, there's an interesting (11 pages) videohelp 3ad about color range "legalization" through FFMPEG which could inspire...

Hope that helps.

EDIT

According to ChatGPT the formula for this linear mapping (= "legalization") is:

y={[(x−input_min)/(input_max−input_min)]×(output_max−output_min)}+output_min

Where:

x is the input color value

y is the transformed output color value

input_min and input_max sets the input color range (eg. 16-255)

output_min and output_max sets the desired output range (eg. 16-235)

This formula will map the input color value x to the corresponding output color value y using a linear transformation.

So, in our Canon HF100 (16-255) case, it becomes:

y={[(x−16)/239]×219}+16

...any opinion about this ?

Question: does Vegas automatically "legalizes" input color ranges ?

If not, how to enable/perform it ?

RogerS schrieb am 11.04.2024 um 13:22 Uhr

Vegas, like other editing programs, just looks at the metadata which indicates full or limited range. When working in 8-bit full or 32 bit full project mode it will conform the limited range files for you. However 16-255 isn't either so you can use a custom levels Fx or LUT to bring back the highlights.

mark-y schrieb am 11.04.2024 um 20:30 Uhr

Quick 'n dirty solution is a LUT

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/does-your-camera-shoot-16-255-try-this-free-3d-lut--121652/

You can do the same thing with Vegas Levels:

With your Vixia HF 100 video footage, which is common the last 15 years, either of these fixes will work in an

8 bit Legacy (Video Levels) Project.

@forart.it The fix in Vegas is more simple than the math makes it seem.