4k Editing in Vegas 15 - will it ever get better?

iggy097 wrote on 12/9/2017, 6:40 AM

As the title states - I bought an Iphone X and have been playing with 4k videos in Vegas. Unless a proxy is built it is impossible to view the preview windows without hangs and massive stutters. Proxy is ok - the quality is very poor of the preview window obviously, but workable.

System specs are good -

6800k - overclocked to 4.3 - GTX 1080, SSD's for both my internal drives, 32GB ram - so it's not a hardware thing and if I put the content into After Effects to edit, it handles it just fine.

If I'm going to keep working with 4k footage, I'm wondering if it would be better to move to a different platform instead of waiting for super long proxy builds.

Comments

Kinvermark wrote on 12/9/2017, 7:02 AM

Does it work in Vegas 14?

iggy097 wrote on 12/9/2017, 7:54 AM

Never tried it

Kinvermark wrote on 12/9/2017, 8:20 AM

The reason I ask is twofold: 1) I don't have v15 (trial ran out) :)

2) The so4compoundplug dll in vegas 15 is new, so the compoundplug dll may work better - see Nick Hope's notes about this if you haven't already.

But aside from that, I think your assertion is too broad. I (any many others) have been editing 4k material happily for some time now. You are using a "bleeding edge" format that appears not to be properly supported - yet. So to answer your question: yes, it probably will get better for you.

Also, don't be too quick to dismiss the use of proxies or intermediates - it is a proven & professional way of dealing with performance problems. I don't quite understand how your proxies can be both poor quality AND take "super long" to render. Should be one or the other.

iggy097 wrote on 12/9/2017, 8:39 AM

I had to disable the so4compoundplug for previous issues that have not been fixed yet by Magix - I forget the thread on here and I can't even remember what the issues were anymore, but that was the fix that Nick had suggested.

Are you saying that Apple's MOV format is bleeding edge? Maybe I don't know enough about the format but I don't think it is?

Plug-In
  Name: qt7plug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\qt7plug
  Format: QuickTime 7
  Version: Version 15.0 (Build 216)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Are you saying that you do not have to create a proxy in order to edit your 4k material? I suppose I don't either, I just wouldn't be able to view any of it in the preview window at any semblance of real time - where I can with AE with no problems. I don't like working with AE at all - but I'm starting to think maybe it's the way to go for 4k at least until Magix can do something with the optimization here.

And as far as rendering times - I was referring to how long a proxy took to create. I just created a proxy for a 2:45 minute clips of 4k footage from the Iphohne and it took about 7 minutes to create. Maybe that's not long for some of you, but for my system that seems like a very long time.

However - I just now looked at the Proxy footage using Preview - Full - and it is very good and usable. I think I was looking at Draft - Auto ( which is what it defaults too after the proxy is made ) - which is why I thought it was unusable.

So - I guess it works well - just a proxy is needed in order to be workable. Which is OK if you don't mind the wait.

 

Kinvermark wrote on 12/9/2017, 9:51 AM

 

Are you saying that Apple's MOV format is bleeding edge? Maybe I don't know enough about the format but I don't think it is?

No, but the IPhone X is. So it is possible the iPhone X is a very "packed" version of h264 - like GoPro, for instance, so that is more cpu intensive and the Vegas' programmers may need to optimize this. Also, quicktime on Windows is often problematic and IMHO should be avoided.

 

Are you saying that you do not have to create a proxy in order to edit your 4k material?

Yes. I can playback GH4 UHD and 4k DCI footage smoothly. I often work with cineform intermediates for other reasons, and they play back even better.

 

And as far as rendering times - I was referring to how long a proxy took to create. I just created a proxy for a 2:45 minute clips of 4k footage from the Iphohne and it took about 7 minutes to create.

 

Yes, understood. My point was that low quality proxies are fast to render; high quality proxies are slower to render. Pick what works for you. I think one needs low quality / fast playback for edit pacing, but high quality / slow playback for colour correction, etc. A workflow where you do you edits with a low resolution proxy, then switch to the source media for final grading may work well for you.

NickHope wrote on 12/9/2017, 9:26 PM
Plug-In

  Name: qt7plug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\qt7plug
  Format: QuickTime 7
  Version: Version 15.0 (Build 216)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

If that is the file properties for the iPhone footage then you should forget proxies and rewrap to MP4 so the Vegas Quicktime decoder is removed from your workflow.

If it's the file properties of your proxies then you should choose a different proxy format.

It's surprising to me that 4K iPhone X footage would open with qt7plug.dll. The four iPhone 8 clips I have on file are all HEVC and get decoded by mxhevcplug.dll (and don't play smoothly in Vegas).

A full MediaInfo report would be useful. A sample shared (e.g. on Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, mega.nz, wetransfer.com or mediafire.com) for us to test would be even more useful.

Also, update to build 261. It fixed aspects of iPhone HEVC.

iggy097 wrote on 12/10/2017, 6:39 AM
Plug-In

  Name: qt7plug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\qt7plug
  Format: QuickTime 7
  Version: Version 15.0 (Build 216)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

If that is the file properties for the iPhone footage then you should forget proxies and rewrap to MP4 so the Vegas Quicktime decoder is removed from your workflow.

If it's the file properties of your proxies then you should choose a different proxy format.

It's surprising to me that 4K iPhone X footage would open with qt7plug.dll. The four iPhone 8 clips I have on file are all HEVC and get decoded by mxhevcplug.dll (and don't play smoothly in Vegas).

A full MediaInfo report would be useful. A sample shared (e.g. on Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, mega.nz, wetransfer.com or mediafire.com) for us to test would be even more useful.

Also, update to build 261. It fixed aspects of iPhone HEVC.


I updated to the new build ( never knew it was there - Vegas didn't show an update ) - and I also enabled the co4compund plugin that was previous disabled due to bugs.

I don't know which one of the 2 things did it, but the Iphone 4k footage runs perfectly in Preview window of Vegas now without any use of proxy.

It is now possible to enter a custom frame rate for the MAGIX AVC/AAC render format

This is ONLY possible when AVC is the encode mode - NOT NVEncoder. - Is this a bug?

iggy097 wrote on 12/10/2017, 6:42 AM

Sorry - and for anyone that wanted footage from the Iphone X - here are a few clips - a couple shot with Filmic Pro and a couple with Iphone camera app. - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgmk56thzr7chyy/AADmwnxog_UOIx09MRzAfikTa?dl=0

NickHope wrote on 12/10/2017, 10:53 PM

Thanks for the samples! Will be useful for when further iPhoneX issues come up. Interesting that MediaInfo reports them as variable frame rate, with a weird "max frame rate". But the files all open nicely in Vegas at 24.000 or 30.000p. I start to distrust and ignore MediaInfo in this respect now.

I don't know which one of the 2 things did it, but the Iphone 4k footage runs perfectly in Preview window of Vegas now without any use of proxy.

It'll probably be due to re-enabling so4compoundplug.dll.

This is ONLY possible when AVC is the encode mode - NOT NVEncoder. - Is this a bug?

No, I think the custom frame rates are only possible with software encoding ("Mainconcept" mode). I think the NVENC and QSV hardware encoders are locked to "standard" frame rates, which sadly doesn't include 30.000p.