4K video stuttering after rendering

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 7:48 PM

Hi everyone, I just upgraded to Vegas Pro 21 from 14. I've Googled around and looked through the forums for a while but haven't found anything that's fixed my issue yet. I've been trying to cut up clips from a very large 4K video file for a YouTube project and every rendering preset I've tried has resulted in stuttering video post-render, while the source video has none of those issues. I've made sure that all the presets I'm using are adjusted to match the FPS of the source vid, I've disabled resampling... not sure what else to try. Oddly, I tried importing the same source video file into Vegas 14 and tried rendering with the MainConcept AVC/AAC Internet 4K 2160p template (with the framerate adjusted to match) and it got rid of the stuttering, but the audio was out of sync (both in the rendered video and within the Vegas project, I later noticed), which was never an issue when I worked with the file in version 21. Would love any insights - hopefully I've posted all the relevant info.

Computer & software information
VEGAS: Version 21.0 (Build 108)
OS: Windows 10 Home, Version 22H2
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 3070
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz
Installed RAM: 16.0 GB
GPU acceleration: "Optimal - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 3070"
"Enable legacy AVC decoding": unchecked
"Enable legacy HEVC decoding": checked
"Hardware decoder to use": "Auto - NVDEC on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 3070"

Media info:
General
Complete name: F:\Videos\source.mp4
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media
Codec ID: isom (isom/dby1/iso2/mp41)
File size: 45.4 GiB
Duration: 2 h 4 min
Overall bit rate: 52.3 Mb/s
Frame rate: 23.976 FPS
Movie name: source
Writing application: Lavf60.3.100

Video
ID: 1
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format: SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID: hev1
Codec ID/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration: 2 h 4 min
Bit rate: 51.7 Mb/s
Width: 3 840 pixels
Height: 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate mode: Variable
Frame rate: 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate: 23.810 FPS
Maximum frame rate: 24.390 FPS
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth: 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.260
Stream size: 44.8 GiB (99%)
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.2020
Transfer characteristics: PQ
Matrix coefficients: BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries: Display P3
Mastering display luminance: min: 0.0020 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level: 595 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level: 494 cd/m2
mdhd_Duration: 7450234
Codec configuration box: hvcC

Audio
ID: 2
Format: AC-3
Format/Info: Audio Coding 3
Commercial name: Dolby Digital
Codec ID: ac-3
Duration: 2 h 4 min
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 640 kb/s
Channel(s): 6 channels
Channel layout: L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode: Lossy
Stream size: 568 MiB (1%)
Title: AC3 5.1
Language: English
Service kind: Complete Main
Default: Yes
Alternate group: 1

Vegas File Properties:
 

General
  Name: source.mp4
  Folder: F:\Videos
  Type: Intel HEVC
  Size: 47.57 GB (48,713,723,359 bytes)
  Created: Sunday, October 8, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
  Modified: Monday, October 9, 2023, 5:39:18 PM
  Accessed: Monday, October 9, 2023, 5:39:20 PM
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 02:04:10.243, 24.001 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, HEVC
  Audio: 02:04:02.326, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AC-3 5.1

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: mxhevcplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 21.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mxhevcplug
  Format: Intel HEVC
  Version: Version 21.0 (Build 108)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Comments

Robert Johnston wrote on 10/9/2023, 8:27 PM

@blahkaw98 Do you try playing the rendered file while you still have Vegas going? You may have to close it down to release memory before you play it back in a 3rd party app. And according to the ReadMe file for Vegas 21, you need an i7 processor for 4K, 32GB recommended RAM for 4K, and SSD for 4K media.

What video player are you using?

What render templates did you try?

Note, sometimes Vegas will play back files better than 3rd party media players. So, you might want to start a new project and load the file you rendered. Drag it to the timeline and play it back. Is it worse or better that the 3rd party app (ProRes plays better for me in Vegas than in VLC where it stutters a lot).

 

Intel Core i7 10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz (to 4.65GHz), NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8GBytes. Memory 32 GBytes DDR4. Also Intel UHD Graphics 630. Mainboard: Dell Inc. PCI-Express 3.0 (8.0 GT/s) Comet Lake. Bench CPU Multi Thread: 5500.5 per CPU-Z.

Vegas Pro 21.0 (Build 108) with Mocha Vegas

Windows 11 not pro

mark-y wrote on 10/9/2023, 8:50 PM

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz

Your playback problems likely are a result of trying to play back HDR10 with your 4th Generation i5 processor.

My 5th Generation i5 "barely" keeps up playback with video apparently identical to yours, even though it represents a huge performance increase over 4th Generation i5 processors.

Thanks for posting your file and machine information. It helps others to narrow down the possible causes.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2023, 9:01 PM

@blahkaw98

"Enable legacy HEVC decoding": checked
"Hardware decoder to use": "Auto - NVDEC on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 3070"

Why are you using legacy HEVC decoding?

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:16 PM

@blahkaw98

"Enable legacy HEVC decoding": checked
"Hardware decoder to use": "Auto - NVDEC on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 3070"

Why are you using legacy HEVC decoding?

That's just what was enabled by default, I don't believe I ever went in there and intentionally enabled that setting. I don't even know what it does. Do you think it has something to do with the problem?

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:17 PM

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz   3.50 GHz

Your playback problems likely are a result of trying to play back HDR10 with your 4th Generation i5 processor.

My 5th Generation i5 "barely" keeps up playback with video apparently identical to yours, even though it represents a huge performance increase over 4th Generation i5 processors.

Thanks for posting your file and machine information. It helps others to narrow down the possible causes.

I had that thought, but the playback issues only occur with clips that I render out. I can play the source file in VLC with no performance issues at all.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:24 PM

@blahkaw98 said: "... the playback issues only occur with clips that I render out."

  1. Show screenshot of your render template.
  2. Post Mediainfo report for your rendered file.
  3. What camera or recording device uses FFMPEG encoder?
Media info:
General
Complete name: F:\Videos\source.mp4
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media
Codec ID: isom (isom/dby1/iso2/mp41)
File size: 45.4 GiB
Duration: 2 h 4 min
Overall bit rate: 52.3 Mb/s
Frame rate: 23.976 FPS
Movie name: source
Writing application: Lavf60.3.100

 

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:30 PM

@blahkaw98 said: "... the playback issues only occur with clips that I render out."

  1. Show screenshot of your render template.
  2. Post Mediainfo report for your rendered file.

General
Complete name                            : F:\Videos\test.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 345 MiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 4 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 23.2 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-10-09 11:55:43 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-10-09 11:55:43 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 min 4 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 23.0 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 48.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.111
Stream size                              : 342 MiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2023-10-09 11:55:51 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-10-09 11:55:51 UTC
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 min 4 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 338 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.82 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2023-10-09 11:55:43 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-10-09 11:55:43 UTC

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:34 PM

@blahkaw98 said: "... the playback issues only occur with clips that I render out."

  1. What camera or recording device uses FFMPEG encoder?
Media info:
General
Complete name: F:\Videos\source.mp4
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media
Codec ID: isom (isom/dby1/iso2/mp41)
File size: 45.4 GiB
Duration: 2 h 4 min
Overall bit rate: 52.3 Mb/s
Frame rate: 23.976 FPS
Movie name: source
Writing application: Lavf60.3.100

 

The source file I'm working with was remux'd to MP4 from MKV in order to be editable in Vegas. I tried enabling the experimental MKV setting and it didn't work, so I needed to remux it.

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:40 PM

@blahkaw98

How did you manage to get Frame rate: 25.000 FPS from a render template that was 23.976 fps?

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:41 PM

Techno-philosophical aside.

I'd probably change your whole workflow.

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:44 PM

@blahkaw98

How did you manage to get Frame rate: 25.000 FPS from a render template that was 23.976 fps?

I may have linked mediainfo for the wrong test clip, I'll just re-render with the template I screenshotted to ensure.

Techno-philosophical aside.

I'd probably change your whole workflow.

Can you be more specific?

john_dennis wrote on 10/9/2023, 10:56 PM

Upload an original MKV source file to a cloud share and post the link here

mark-y wrote on 10/10/2023, 8:39 AM

I'd probably change your whole workflow.

Agreed.

If you will upload an original camera clip to Drive or Dropbox, I can have a look at it on my machine, which is apparently similar to yours. Not MKV, not converted footage, not rendered footage, not uploaded to Youtube, nor to the forum.

I do not recommend wrapping camera footage to MKV, then converting to MP4, and then encoding again in Vegas. Your original post didn't mention this.

The original properties you posted are for HEVC HDR10, which is quite demanding.

blahkaw98 wrote on 10/10/2023, 7:52 PM

 

I do not recommend wrapping camera footage to MKV, then converting to MP4, and then encoding again in Vegas. Your original post didn't mention this.

The source file I'm working with is not an original camera clip. It was provided to me by the person working on this project and it was in MKV format when I got it. Unfortunately I don't think I can share it here. Thanks for attempting to help though, I appreciate it.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 10/13/2023, 10:17 AM

I'm not that familiar with Intel 4th gen hd4600 graphics and I'm not sure if Vegas or win10 supports it. What Intel graphics driver are you using? If you don't have an Intel graphics driver Vegas supports, you should probably uncheck legacy-hevc. You could try this driver:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/18388/intel-graphics-driver-for-windows-10-15-40-4th-gen.html

If Vegas supports it, then it should show up as an option in the Vegas I/O tab as a decoder choice. You might also check Windows Control Panel, Device Manager, Display Adapters... if you see Microsoft Basic Display Adapter there it means there's no Intel graphics driver attached to it and Vegas won't be able to use that for anything.

RogerS wrote on 10/13/2023, 10:35 AM

VP 21 doesn't support the Intel 4th gen hd4600 for decoding. You'll only have NVDEC.