Brilliant! - (but being a 67 year old non-techy type, I need help with the ffmpeg thing). Following your instructions, I typed ffmpeg at the command prompt which brings up a match to an app, ffmpeg-win-2.2.2.exe but that looks like it's for Audacity (which I have on my PC). Is that what I want?

@deckingman If you run my util, and it doesn't throw an error message to the effect that ffmpeg.exe cannot be found, then you are good to go. Many "programs" use ffmpeg.exe, ffprobe.exe etc. I would still recommend downloading the latest "static" build and storing ffmpeg utils in say D:\ffmpeg\BIN\. Then add D:\ffmpeg\BIN\ to the Windows PATH.

The advantage of doing so is that you are using a more up to date version, than say what may have come with Audacity, if that is the case. There are more comprehensive step by step instructions on the inet for adding an item to the Windows PATH than the brief instructions in my readme. "but being a 67 year old". 2014 was a good year also 😎.

Thanks. Still struggling here. I tried running your utility (double clicked on the .exe file) which brings up the instructional text with "press any key" at the bottom. When I press any key - it just throws me out. So I guess I don't have the required ffmpeg file. I've got as far as this link https://www.gyan.dev/ffmpeg/builds/ but there are 4 options, to choose from. Which one do I need?

For further info, I've had another reply back from Magix which states quote........

"VEGAS products will no longer be able to render 5.1 AC-3.  The format you may render to is not related to the format of the files themselves.  You may import any supported file and render to a different format."

I keep trying to tell them that I've tried every rendering format available in Vegas Pro but none of them offer 5.1 as an audio output option - only stereo or mono. But it's like banging my head against a wall. They just keep saying use a different format to AC-3 but the only rendering option I can find that supports 5.1 audio is that old Sony AVC which only uses AC-3.   

They just keep saying use a different format to AC-3 but the only rendering option I can find that supports 5.1 audio is that old Sony AVC which only uses AC-3.   

In the Render As options under the WAV (Microsoft) heading, there is a 48k 16 bit 5.1 PCM audio render choice. The Customize Template button allows for the settings of format, bit rate and sample rate to be changed.

@deckingman I would use this "full" link ... https://www.gyan.dev/ffmpeg/builds/ffmpeg-git-full.7z

When you double-clicked the util, it brought you directly to the HELP section. Pressing any key exits the help section. It clearly states, and is highlighted, that you need to drag and drop files onto the util to process said files.

They just keep saying use a different format to AC-3 but the only rendering option I can find that supports 5.1 audio is that old Sony AVC which only uses AC-3.   

In the Render As options under the WAV (Microsoft) heading, there is a 48k 16 bit 5.1 PCM audio render choice. The Customize Template button allows for the settings of format, bit rate and sample rate to be changed.

Sure there is. But that's audio only - no video. I want to render video files with 5.1 audio.

@deckingman I would use this "full" link ... https://www.gyan.dev/ffmpeg/builds/ffmpeg-git-full.7z

When you double-clicked the util, it brought you directly to the HELP section. Pressing any key exits the help section. It clearly states, and is highlighted, that you need to drag and drop files onto the util to process said files.

Thanks. But thinking about this some more, your utility will convert the input files from AC3 to AAC. But how do I render out as video with 5,1 audio? None of the option available support 5.1 audio - just stereo or mono.

I want to render video files with 5.1 audio.

That's the first time that you've stated that - you've not mentioned thus far that the 5.1 audio render had to be rendered as part of the video stream, only that you wanted a 5.1 AC3 render and that Magix recommended rendering the 5.1 audio in a different format.

I should add that in my experience with Vegas Pro 10 onwards (as well as discussed from time-to-time on the forum when DVD and BD was a popular destination for Vegas Pro projects), the only way to get an AC3 5.1 audio render with Vegas Pro was to render it as a separate audio render.

I want to render video files with 5.1 audio.

That's the first time that you've stated that - you've not mentioned thus far that the 5.1 audio render had to be rendered as part of the video stream, only that you wanted a 5.1 AC3 render and that Magix recommended rendering the 5.1 audio in a different format.

I should add that in my experience with Vegas Pro 10 onwards (as well as discussed from time-to-time on the forum when DVD and BD was a popular destination for Vegas Pro projects), the only way to get an AC3 5.1 audio render with Vegas Pro was to render it as a separate audio render.

Apologies - I thought that my opening post explained the requirement to render files from my camcorder into a format that I could enjoy 5.1 audio when the subsequent render is played through my home theatre system.

How do I render the audio separately and then recombine the audio and video into a single, synchronised file?

How do I render the audio separately and then recombine the audio and video into a single, synchronised file?

Typically in the past prior to Vegas Pro 18, Vegas Pro came with a DVD/BD creator/burner called DVD Architect (DVDA) - Magix has dropped DVDA and replaced it with SoundForge Pro 14 in Vegas Pro 18 above 'Edit'.

Using DVDA, you would drop the separately rendered video onto the video timeline in DVDA, and then drop the separately rendered AC3 5.1 audio onto DVDA's audio track. Multiple audio tracks were available if different languages choices were wanted to be used like you usually find on commercially released DVDs/BDs. On rendering the project in DVDA, an ISO file (BD) would be created, or the relevant DVD video/audio files created which could be burnt to BD/DVD disc media at the time or later on.

With the advancement with technology, what used to be relatively easy not so long ago is now a 'steeple-chase'.

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is right now. I still use DVDA and prefer using DVDs/BDs on a BD player. I also have the ISOs on my computer and so can also use Cyberlink PowerDVD to connect via HDMI the BD ISOs on the computer to my home theatre system. DVD is not easy via Cyberlink.

Thanks. This might be a way forward. As per my OP, prior to "upgrading" to Vegas Pro 18, I had always used Movie Studio Platinum (from 13 through to 16). Looking through the installed software on my PC, I do have a copy of DVD architect (although I've never used it). Might I be able to render the audio as 5.1 Wav as you suggested then drop both the separately rendered (wav) audio and video onto the time line in DVDA to create something that I can play? Please forgive my lack of knowledge - I really don't know much about video and audio formats.

Also, I don't know if it's relevant but all my movies are stored on a NAS which I normally access using an Nvidia shield which plays via HDMI through my surround sound receiver. Movie studio platinum and the old Sony AVC format would produce .m2ts files which play fine, but I'd guess iso files would also play fine? Also for info but probably not relevant, I ripped all my DVDs and BluRays using Make mkv and these too are stored on the NAS (the original discs are in boxes in my loft).

@Dexcon @deckingman I added a .wav output option to my "Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC" util when "Audio Only" is selected. The download link is also available by clicking on my "Signature". The audio bit rate and volume items aren’t applicable when output is wav.

Its essential to either remove, or overwrite the old “defaults “ file with the new defaults file.

Just quoting myself here for the sake of these two useful links that were in the old thread ...

Here’s a 5.1 VP link to some discussion.

Plus this very informative link within the above link.

I noticed that to save a render template in 5.1 you MUST first set the project audio properties to 5.1, only then can you set and save the render template as 5.1, all in Sony Avc.

Applies also (first set the project audio properties to 5.1) to Wav as per Dexcon's post.

@deckingman

I had exactly the same problem as you in Vegas Pro 18. But I managed to render video with audio 5.1 correctly using Sony AVC/MVC and Voukoder.

See my screenshot to better understand.

@deckingman

I had exactly the same problem as you in Vegas Pro 18. But I managed to render video with audio 5.1 correctly using Sony AVC/MVC and Voukoder.

See my screenshot to better understand.

That's been a great help - many thanks! I'm not sure that I understand the significance of using Voukoder - was it simply to show two methods of achieving the same result?

That aside, in my naivety (stupidity) I didn't realise that the Sony AVC Internet 1920x1080-30p has the option to change the default audio from stereo to surround. That's all I needed!!!

So for anyone stumbling on this thread in the future, here is the solution to my problem of rendering out video clips from a Panasonic Camcorder shot at 1080/50p with 5.1 Surround.

1. Set project properties - audio to 5.1 surround (probably best to do this before adding clips to the time line.

2. Select Sony AVC/MVC render format

3. Select Internet 1920x1080-30p template

4. In the video tab, change the frame rate from 29.97 (NTSC) to 50 (Double PAL) to match the camera settings,

5. In the audio tab, change the default audio (which is AAC) from stereo to 5.1 surround. I left the sample rate at 48,000 Hz. The Bit rate changed from 128,000 to 160,000 when I selected 5.1 surround - I have no idea if these are good values to use but it seemed to work fine.

6. Save template if desired, render and enjoy. The resultant output is an MP4 with 6 channel AAC audio.

Media info as follows - does anyone have anything to say about this? Should I make any changes to the render template? Do bit rates and so forth look OK?

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/isom)
File size                                : 63.5 MiB
Duration                                 : 38 s 400 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 13.9 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=2, N=26
Muxing mode                              : Container profile=High@4.0
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 38 s 400 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 13.7 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 26.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.132
Stream size                              : 62.8 MiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 38 s 379 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 160 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 750 KiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-01-07 11:05:28

Slightly concerned that the Audio compression mode is shown as lossy - should I/can I chnage this and if so how?.

@deckingman “I didn't realise that the Sony AVC Internet 1920x1080-30p has the option to change the default audio from stereo to surround. That's all I needed!!!

It was all there in the previous thread ... a small snippet below from my post on page 4 of that thread mentioned above ...

“12/6/2020, 9:56 PM. So I set the audio in project properties to 5.1, then the audio in the Sony Avc to 5.1 also”.

Worth to mention, again, that the render template you just made will disappear if your project properties are set to stereo. It magixally reappears when you change the project properties to 5.1.

@deckingman “I didn't realise that the Sony AVC Internet 1920x1080-30p has the option to change the default audio from stereo to surround. That's all I needed!!!

 

It was all there in the previous thread ... a small snippet below from my post on page 4 of that thread mentioned above ...

“12/6/2020, 9:56 PM. So I set the audio in project properties to 5.1, then the audio in the Sony Avc to 5.1 also”.

 

Worth to mention, again, that the render template you just made will disappear if your project properties are set to stereo. It magixally reappears when you change the project properties to 5.1.

Put it down to an old man's stupidity then - I completely missed the bit about using the Internet Template within Sony AVC. I didn't bother clicking on the images within that linked post, which is what I needed to do to make them big enough to notice the internet template.

Also worth mentioning is this. If one starts a new project with the audio set to stereo, then when a clip is dragged to the time line, a pop up window appears which says "Do you want to set your project video settings to match this media" it means exactly that" - VIDEO. It does not match the project audio settings to the media. This must be done "manually".

Finally........... under "Preferences - General" is a tick box entitled "Prompt to adjust project settings to match first media added to time line". There is no mention in that title that what this actually means is ".......adjust project video settings (but not the audio)........"

Finally - finally. With Movie Studio 16 (which is where I came from before upgrading to Pro18), if one has the project settings for audio set to stereo, then when one drags the first clip onto the time line, the pop up message says (quote)......."You have opened a media file which contains multiple channels of audio. Would you like to set the current project to 5.1 surround mode ?" And if one answers "Yes" to that - that's what you get - multiple audio tracks added to the time line.

This is eminently better than the way Pro 18 works IMHO. Seems me that I've paid more but got less - often the way of life sadly.................

@deckingman

Don't confuse a lack of automatic functions with "getting less". It's like saying a professional truck driver has less of a vehicle because it has a manual transmission.

I work with 5.1 audio in VP on a regular basis, and my manual workflow has become automatic to me -- and highly adjustable.

As I understand the AC-3 issue with respect to 5.1 audio.

Magix feedback ...

"Starting with recent versions of Windows 10, the VEGAS line of products uses native Windows tools for stereo AC-3 encoding and decoding. It is not possible to encode 5.1 AC-3 files since they are not supported through the operating system. To encode 5.1 audio, use another audio codec such as WAV."

My take on addressing it ...

#1 Transcode to another codec, say, AAC or WAV.

#2 In VP the Sony AVC and the WAV codecs support 5.1.

#3 Before using items #2 above, set the “Project properties” Audio to 5.1

#4 Create a new 5.1 render template using either one of #2 items.

#5 Note that these new render templates will only be visible to you when #3 is applied.

#6 The #1 step will only be necessary where the audio doesn't appear, or simply doesn’t play properly, on the timeline on media import, this will most likely be "wrapper" dependent for AC-3.

@JN. Except that AC-3 input files are supported. So no need to transcode before adding them to the time line/project. To be clear, I can play the camcorder generated MTS files (with AC-3 5.1 audio) on my Windows 10 PC using VLC media player, and I can also add those same files directly to the time line in VP Pro and do anything I like with them, including playing previews with 5.1 audio. The only thing I can't do is render with AC-3 audio. Oh and to pre-empt what some might say, yes I do have 5.1 audio on my PC and I can say categorically then I do get sound from all 6 speakers when playing those camcorder files, and the master bus shows output for all 6 channels when those MTS files are previewed.

Also, in VP - Sony AVC format, the only templates that allow one to change the properties to get 5.1 audio are the two top internet ones, and the "Memory stick" templates (whatever they are). None of the other templates within the Sony AVC format will work as they are either video stream only, stereo only, or AC-3 audio only. So one has to be very specific about which template to select within the Sony AVC format.

And. If AC-3 audio is no longer supported as Magix claim, then why are all those templates which include AC-3 audio still available and selectable? Why do they continue to add them to windows 10 builds if one cannot use them? More importantly, why do not Magix make it clear than AC-3 audio is no longer supported? Why is it that if one tries to render using AC-3, one gets a message to indicate that a file is needed (which then fails to download) rather than a message which states that AC-3 audio is no longer supported as a render option?