Brainshark, Aspect Ratio, and other problems

farss wrote on 1/26/2011, 10:50 PM

"how do I nest"

You've saved a Vegas project, lets say you called it Project A.
You open a new project, lets call that project B, save it as that. Now in the Explorer window of Vegas find Project A.
Drag that onto the Timeline.
You have now nested Project A in Project B.

"and match output"

If you got through the above OK and lets asume that Project A was 1280x720 because that's what your camera shot. So lets make Project B, the one you now have open match what you want to render to, namely 720 x 540. Go to the projects properties and change it to that.
Now click the Pan/Crop icon at the end of the Event on the timeline which is Project A. Right click inside the workspace and select Match Output Aspect.
Now what you should see in the preview window is no more black bars on either the top/bottom or sides of the frame. You have cutout the centre of the frame. Hopefully you haven't lost anything vital. You can in the Event Pan/crop move the region around, that might help if you had say your boss's face on the left of the frame.

"what is this and whats the dif between Sorenson and plain ver"

A codec is what is used to encode and decode video. Quicktime (MOV) is a container as is AVI, inside the container can be different codecs, Sorenson is one, H.264 is another. There's really no such thing as "plain" MOV.

" what is bobing out in 10c"

The error message related to the encoder, this could be any number of things, maybe the encoder doesn't like the resolution, it could be anything and it would take me time doing trial and error testing to find out. Given that you need quick solutions and I'm also moderately busy I just gave up. This is not a Vegas error so don't worry about it.

Sorry there's a huge amount to digest above. I'm well know for not giving quick and simple answers :)
Why I suggested a more complex route was Amendegw's solution kind of required you to start all over again. I figured if you nested your original project that you'd spent ages doing then you'd avoid the angst of starting all over again. Given the time constraints you're under you may do better to use his quick fix to get the job out the door and get your boss of your back. Once that's done and you've recovered then we can take the time to help you understand this business better or recommend some reading or training for you. You really have been thrown in at the deep end, getting what you're trying to achieve done as well as it can be is one of the hardest tasks we all face so don't feel bad if it's all rather daunting.

Hope I've been more of a help than a hinderance.

Bob.

graphic_girl wrote on 1/26/2011, 10:58 PM

John

THANKS... and .... b-r-e-a-t-h-i-n-g ... sorry... lol waaaay too much coffee and lack of sleep and paicking with moved up deadline....

The first set of clear instructions in this thread yielded MUCH BETTER results but the file size is tooo big...

Am trying a variation... rendering takes sooooo long... :-(

Thanks again for the CODEC def John... I really should google some of this basic stuff... SORRY... just in panic mode and not thinking straight...

gg

graphic_girl wrote on 1/26/2011, 11:11 PM

Bob

You are an ANGEL... and you HAVE been a HUGE help... LOVE the detailed explanations... and I really *am* a quick study when it comes to computers...

CLARIFICATION... my graphics were PIXELED totaly ater rendering and had nothing to do with fades...

I was trying to match settings with brainsharks best practice pos and result got me 320x540 pixelated piece of garbage... sorensen and custom settins I tried yielded BEAUTIFUL results... but file size jumped from 68MB to 130MB and brainshark limit is 100MB... so now I am trying to reduce file size...

I am sorry to be such a verbose pain...

I will try to be more brief... but I think we are getting REALLY close and I canNOT thank you guys enough!!!

gg

graphic_girl wrote on 1/26/2011, 11:33 PM

Rendering to WMV file trying to reduce file size. Video looks good... audio ok (better) and now is mono (I think)... main thing is reducing file size at this point... It is after 1:30 a.m. here and I need to get some sleep...

THANKS TO THE ANGELS WHO HELPED ME... and let me know if anyone needs any graphics... :-)

graphic_girl :-)))))))))))))))))))))zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz g'niterz

graphic_girl wrote on 1/26/2011, 11:53 PM

Jerry (AMEN)

WOW!!!!!!

wmv video is pretty good quality - no stretching - and TINY TINY file size of 17MB vompared to 140MB .mov

Sound... not so good... back to tunnelllllll but... oh well... am uploading to brainshark to see how it views in their "washing machine"

graphics ALSO CRYSTAL CLEAR in WMV... so we may be onto something here...

I'll keep you posted... and so much for going to bed... this stuff is ADDICTING (and it is almost 2 A.M. here! YIKES)

THANK YOU AGAIN...

gg

graphic_girl wrote on 1/26/2011, 11:55 PM

Oh yes... and ALSO to Bob....

with WMV rendering am still getting letterboxing... so am going to try to follow your "nesting" approach with you GREAT instructions... and will let you know....

THANKS AGAIN!!!

gg

graphic_girl wrote on 1/27/2011, 12:01 AM

WMV looks GREAT in Brainshark... audio tunnelly/tinny... but I suppose I could live with that...

ONE LAST QUESTION...

Is it better to have graphical slides on their OWN timeline? or dropped over video on video timeline?

Any thoughts? what is the difference?

TY!

gg now going to sleep... REALLY.... and thanks again!

ushere wrote on 1/27/2011, 12:34 AM

gg - take some valium, a joint, jack daniels, whatever, and CALM DOWN!

one thing you need as an editor is a clear head (cause it's going to get filled pretty quickly with the project you're working on - as you've found out).

you NEED to read the manual, or at least refer to it before firing off a list of questions that, though we're here to help each other, can be quite confusing and at cross-purposes. try using google for questions such as 'what is a codec?'. once you've got a basic handle on it, people here will walk you through the various details / uses / set-up for what you need.

but please, TAKE A BREAK, clear your mind (f' the boss, it's the weekend), and come back composed with a coherent list of questions.....

as for your last question, which ever suits YOUR purposes. i would opt for their own track(s).

graphic_girl wrote on 1/27/2011, 12:39 AM

:-p

gg ;-)

ushere wrote on 1/27/2011, 1:39 AM

;-))

graphic_girl wrote on 1/27/2011, 1:57 AM

BOB

Your nesting instructions were SPOT ON! Worked like a charm and I cannot thank you enough for the time and patience you all have displayed here... I know I have been an off-the-wall nut job... BUT...
...the combination of WONDERFUL suggestions I have received here on this forum have yielded a pretty darn good video.

(told you guys I was a quick study! :-))

THANK YOU!!

GG
(p.s. sleep is over-rated! and it is almost 4 A.M. on Thursday morning here... where in the world is it the weekend right now??? just curious)

farss wrote on 1/27/2011, 2:03 AM

"where in the world is it the weekend right now??? just curious"

I haven't a clue, it's 9:00 PM down here on the east coast of Australia and past Leslie's bedtime, he's a country bumpkin and has to get up at sparrow fart to milk the cows :)

I'm still arguing with the driver for my Firewire 410, grrrrrrrrr.

BTW, we've found Skype to be an excellent vehicle for helping one another.

Bob.

ushere wrote on 1/27/2011, 2:47 AM

ai laddie, you're right there......

i love the smell of dung in the morning.......

amendegw wrote on 1/27/2011, 2:54 AM

gg,

Wow!! I go to bed and this thread goes wild!

You've asked a number of questions of me. I'm not going to reply because it appears that Bob (farss) excellent advice has put you back on track. If you have a specific question dealing with your progress on this project, repost it here. Or if it's a general question, I would suggest you start a new thread.

It looks like you've near the finish line on this by using the "Windows Media Player" encoder - but the final issue may be the audio. You may have to bump up the audio quality settings. See the following screenprint. Note, the highest mono quality is 48 kbps/44kHz. You may have to send Brainshark stereo and let their processor convert it to mono. This is probably going to be trial-and-error, but a good next test would be 96/44 stereo.

Best of Luck!
...Jerry (who nearly always gets up at 5:00am and has yet to hear a "sparrow fart" I think they're frozen! And I blame all unknown smells on my dog, Jazzy. {grin}

Edit: gg, something that would be really helpful for this exercise (and future projects) is to put MediaInfo in your toolbox. It's free & you can get it here: http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en Once, you install it, you can use it to get the properties of your render. It would be very helpful if you would post the audio properties.

graphic_girl wrote on 1/27/2011, 7:08 AM

Hi AMEN... (Jerry)...

Bed? What is that? hehe...

sorry about that... I was so excited to have your guys' help that I was firing off questions faster than anyone could answer... MY BAD...

I *did* finally go to bed... for a couple hours... and have just uploaded and previewed my last rendering into Brainshark... their washing machine does degrade the video a bit imho (and the audio a LOT :-()... so your advice here is really timely! THANKS!)

BS specs say to render audio in mono 16 bit 22kHZ... And VP10 kept talling me source a audio was larger than target until I selected one of the lowest mono choices on the list (sorry don't remember which - was in a bit of a fog in the wee hours of the morning here)...

But I am going to try your suggestions below forthwith...

THANK YOU!

gg

graphic_girl wrote on 1/27/2011, 7:37 AM

Jer...

Downloaded and installed media info - waaaaaay coooool thanks!

Here are my audio specs: (pdf'd and ocr'd so has weird characters... HOW do I link or embed a pdf or png file to my reply like you guys have been doing for me???
gg

Encoded date: UTC 2011 -01 -2709:31:04.624
SfOfiginaIFPS: 299700
• Vide<)
ID: 2
Formal: VC_ 1
Format prali ~: MP@HL
Code<: 10 : WMV3
Code<: IDllnfa: Wirodows Media Vide<) 9
Code<: IDlHint: WMV3
Descripbon of tr.e code<:: Wirodows Media Vide<) 9
Duration: 4mn 21s
B ~ rate mode: Constant
B ~ rate: 496 Kbps
Width: 720 pixels
Height: 540 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Ips
B ~ depth: 8 M s
Scan type: Progressive
Compression mode: Lossy
B ~sI(Ptxel' Frame): 0.043
Stream size: 15.5 MiB (99%)
Language: English (US)
• Audio
10 : 1
Format: WIAA
Format versiofl: Version 2
Code<: 10 : 161
Code<: IDllnfa: Wirodows Media Audio
Description of tr.e code<:: Wirodows Media Audio 9.2 - 16 kbps, 22 kHz, mono (NIl) I -pass CBR
Duratiofl: 4mn 21s
B ~ rate mode: Constant
B ~ rate: 16.0 Kbps
Channe!(s): 1 channel
Sampling rate: 22.05 KHz
B ~ depth: 16 Ms
Stream size: 512 KiB (3%)
Language: English (US)

amendegw wrote on 1/27/2011, 9:59 AM

gg,

First I'm sure the reason your audio is crappy (a technical term) is because you're rendered to 16/22 mono. Suggest you bump it up to the 44/96 mono and you should be fine.

"HOW do I link or embed a pdf or png file to my reply like you guys have been doing for me"

First, read the sticky at the top of this forum: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=521496&Replies=0

Next, you can use the windows snipping tool start->Programs->accessories->snipping tool to grab screencaptures. Save these and upload to your hosting service. I have my own site hosted by godaddy, but there are other, free services (others may have recommendations). You can embed the image by typing the following: [img=http://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/images/Brainshark-Audio.png] (obviously the URL should point to the image you uploaded).

In the meantime, in order to get MediaInfo data to your posts, you can merely set the MediaInfo format to View->Text, click-and-drag to select the text you wish to copy, Cntl-C to copy to your clipboard, navigate back to you browser for posting and press Cntl-V to paste the text back to your post.

Good Luck!
...Jerry

farss wrote on 1/27/2011, 1:53 PM

If BS are going to resample the audio to 22KHz anyway it might be best to send them that, not everything out there is as good at resampling as Vegas. Audio quality might be improved out of Vegas by going to the Audio tab of the project properties and changing Resample and stretch quality to Best.

22KHz sampling shouldn't be too bad, I've got some old LP DAT tapes recorded at something like that and for speech it's good enough, upping the bitrate from 16Kbps to 20Kbps might help a little without taking much of the bitbudget away from the vision stream.

Bob.

amendegw wrote on 1/27/2011, 2:08 PM

"If BS are going to resample the audio to 22KHz anyway it might be best to send them that, not everything out there is as good at resampling as Vegas"

You're probably correct, but if gg is unhappy with the audio, I would suggest that she's running out of options and sending them a higher bitrate upload is worth a shot.

' Audio quality might be improved out of Vegas by going to the Audio tab of the project properties and changing Resample and stretch quality to Best."

Good idea - also worth a shot!

...Jerry

farss wrote on 1/27/2011, 3:01 PM

When dealing with a 3rd party "black box" anything is worth a shot. I'm just throwing ideas into the mix, they could be really bad or really good, the only way to know for sure is for her to give it a shot. The more ideas anyone can throw her way the better.

One thing I can say with some confidence is if she's got any music with her video then low bitrate lossy encoding is not going to be kind to it if it includes rich harmonics etc. Either leave the music out or stick to basic synths kind of music. I've noticed that doof doof techno stuff sounds equally bad/good no matter how you crunch it around :)

Bob.

amendegw wrote on 1/31/2011, 3:29 PM

graphic girl,

Don't keep us in suspense! Did the audio fixes work, and are you now a hero to your boss?

...Jerry

ushere wrote on 1/31/2011, 5:01 PM

heroine surely?

graphic_girl wrote on 2/2/2011, 5:24 PM

LOL... HEROIN(E) whatev...

Actually no... burning the candle at both ends has a price... deathly illness... me and my little girl.... BOTH SICK.... so... video stilllll not done... and just getting back up in the saddle... I will try the audio stuff.... and had WANTED to add music.... but based on the timeline... and my LACK OF adequate music - despite searching the royalty-free stuff on the web... I guess I will FORGO the music for now... we will be updating this in the future....

Soooooo I'll let you know.... soon.... I promise.... but gotta go now... daughter's getting sick n gotta do the mommy thing...

gg (and THANKS again for all your help... it looks SOOOOOOO much better thanks to this forum!!!)

ushere wrote on 2/2/2011, 6:44 PM

gg - just remember; insanity is hereditary - you get it from your children. feel better X 2