brainshark?

i'd be running a mile from them. as bob writes, they don't appear to give (have) any technicals at all....

i just had a look at a couple of their tuts - appalling. i've seen better pp presentations from 15 year olds...

couldn't believe it - so i watched some more - it doesn't get any better ;-(

btw. not much point asking questions in a survey thread.

obviously you've either bitten off more than you can chew, or have been thrown in at the deep end without a life. jacket. either way this forum has been known to teach people how to bite (with their video), and how to survive in the open ocean....

but it always helps to fill in your sys details, give relevant facts regarding vegas version, what's on the tl, etc., and to both rtfm and search the forum for answers before it's too late for anything else ;-)

Well they seem to have a model that'd appeal to the CEO.

Pros:
1) You can upload a Powerpoint presentation and their system turns it into a streaming video. At the resolution they're using of course that could be rather problematic however they are targetting mobile devices.
2)You can record a narration over the phone.
3) No ads.
4) Low bitrate so should stream easily.
5) CEO can record video from his webcam.

Cons:
1) Quality is rather poor but probably not a factor just to get a message out.
2) It costs.
3) Despite the seemingly low bitrate it took a while to download their own demos. This does not inspire confidence in something you're being asked to pay for.


All that said I'd hazard a guess Graphic_girl is locked into this by her boss.

Bob.

evening bob, hope it's cooler down there than up here - 42c this afternoon. spent it with the dogs in the river - had too, bloody power failure!

to be honest i haven't come across too many ceo's recently, but those i used to work with would never dream of doing anything in the least bit technical - that's why they have it!

your 'pros' are all reasonable, but 4 was countered by 3 in cons.

3 in pros was countered by 2 in cons

i would think 'slick presentation' out trumped 'getting message out'.

narration over the ph..... sorry, you're breaking up......

i feel sorry for gg if she's locked into it by her boss.

"i would think 'slick presentation' out trumped 'getting message out'."

It seems to be targeted at internal messages. They need to be timely, get the message out before the office rumour mill kicks in.

Bob.

but bob, the rumour mill was always one step ahead of the release ;-)

gg,

Try this to get you started:

1) Project Properties HDV 720-30p (1280x720, 29,970 fps)
2) Deinterlace Method Interpolate
3) Rendering Quality: Best
4) Drag Clips to timeline & Edit (you might wish to pan/crop to 4:3 to prevent letterboxing)
5) Render as:
...a) Quicktime
...b) Click "Custom" for Custom Template
......i) Frame Size: Custom 720x540
.....ii) Frame Rate: 29.97
....iii) Target Rate: 512Kbps
.....iv) Click Audio Tab & Select "Mono"
......v) Rename Template to "BrainShark"
.....vi) Click the "Save" Icon"
6) Render your Project (it will be letterboxed if you did not pan/crop, and quality will be nowhere near your original footage)


...Jerry (who is retired and thanks God that he no longer has to deal with cranky bosses)

Edit: Where did I read they wanted a Quicktime .mov format? In re-reading this thread, I can't find that. If they want want .mp4 or .wmv, the procedure is the same - just choose "Save as Type" = "Sony AVC" for .mp4 or "Windows Media Player" for .wmv

I just tried that and first go it didn't look too good.

What I tried was to nest an original project into one set to match the output, then use pan/crop's Match Output Aspect to crop and render to your settings. For 512K Sorenson it looks remarkably good, I'm also retiming 50i to 27.970p!
I also changed the audio sample rate to 44.1KHz.

I've had a go at using mpeg-4 video as it should perform better at such a low bitrate but the render bombs out in 10.0c. Still Sorenson looks quite good plus we don't know which codecs Brainshark will accept inside .MOV and Sorenson is pretty safe.

Bob.

" For 512K Sorenson it looks remarkably good"Bob,

I probably posted my screenprint while you were doing your test (note the "Sorenson"). I probably started with a template that already had Sorenson as its default, that's why I made no mention to change it. My test was "okay quality", but that's to be expected for 720x540 & a low bitrate. brainshark2.mov

...Jerry

Looks about the same as my second attempt. My first attempt looked much worse. Not entirely certain why. I used Sorenson for both.

Bob.

Hmmmm... this is becoming an interesting "problem". I've been doing some additional testing and MediaInfo reports a video bitrate of "Bit rate: 4 160 Kbps" for the file rendered via the "Sorenson" format - even though we clearly specified 512Kbps. Is this a bug or is this just "the way it works"?

So, I tried rendering using the Sony AVC & 512 Kbps and got really crappy results: BrainShark.mp4 Furthermore, I had no option to render in mono.

Not to be deterred, I used the Sony AVC encoder to render the clip at 10Mbps and imported the result to Handbrake. Then used Handbrake to reduce the video bitrate to 512 Kbps and audio = mono. Now we're talking! Quality is good and Mediainfo reports video bitrate as 512Kbps: BrainShark-HB.mp4

Let's hope Brainshark accepts the (higher bitrate) Quicktime encode, as the further processing may be overcomplicating the process for graphic girl.

...Jerry

Just to further confuse this issue. I was able to get an "acceptable" render (not as good as the Handbrake, mp4, imho). By using the following WMP render settings:



Result is here: BrainShark.wmv

Now, if we can just figure out what Brainshark wants. I spent about 15 minutes searching their site & gave up.

...Jerry

Edit: After further searching, I found this: "What video files play in Brainshark?" Based on that statement, I would recommend the wmv custom template.

Based on that and as they don't specify any bitrate limit AND they're going to transcode it anyway I'd send them something with square pixels that matches the odd SAR at a high bitrate H.264 and that was as clean as possible and pray...a lot.

They seem to be using a low bitrate out of their systems so it will work on mobile devices with low bandwidth connections. I think getting the source as clean as possible would be the key to getting the best looking outcome from their transcode.

Bob.

OMGGGGG

You guys are PHENOMENAL! Am loving all the tips and suggestions... it seems there are literally thousands of permutations and combinations to render in (by checking different settings/properties... and I could spend a year trying them all since I KNOW NOTHING... but you guys are cutting to the chase for me and saving my sorry butt... THANK YOU!

first things first... yes I have been thrown in the deep end and bitten off a tad more than I can chew... and I HAVE to GET ThIS DONE... or it is curtains for me...

btw... I have VEGASPRO 10.0 (just purchased for this project - at my suggestion - so the pressure is really on!)

BRAINSHARK SPECS: (they are really long)

Please tell me how to embed link i this forum of png, pdf, or other graphic of their spec document (what format do you want?) otherwise I will try to edit and post them for you...

THANS SO MUCH!!!

GG

please excuse typos... HATE typing on laptop keyboard... :-(

Here are brainshark specs.... edited for length
when possible, supply video in its original format. The less changes and re-encoding of a video, the better the end quality will be. Each re-encoding may degrade the quality of your video.

The single file upload limit is 100 MB; i.e., no video file exceeding 100 MB can be uploaded to Brainshark.

Test the video file in Brainshark to be sure it plays. Playback of the video outside of Brainshark is NOT representative of how it will play inside of the Brainshark Viewing Console. <<< gg wonders WHY?

ok the heck with editing... here is the rest...
What video files play in Brainshark?
There are over 100 types of video that can be uploaded into Brainshark and will be converted to play in our player. These include types like .flv, .avi, .mov, .wmv, .rm, and many more. If you upload a .swf file we will play it in its original format.
What bitrate should I use when creating my video files?
Because bit-rate is highly dependent on codec there is no recommended or minimum value. Videos should be optimized for resolution, aspect ratio and frame rate rather than bit rate.
How can I make my video files play better in Brainshark?
• Lower the audio sampling rate and convert to mono. This will create high quality audio while maintaining minimum file size. We recommend a sampling rate of 22050 Hz, 16 bit depth, mono for most video files.
• Lower the video bit-rate. We recommend using 512 Kbps when creating video files.
• Lower the horizontal and vertical pixel size of the video.
• Lower the video frame rate.
How can I make my uploaded MP3 audio files play better in Brainshark?
Lower the audio sampling rate and convert to mono. We recommend a sampling rate of 22050 Hz, 16 bit depth, mono and a bit rate of 96 kbps for voice recordings. This will create high quality audio while maintaining minimum file size.
What is the maximum allowable size for an audio, video or .swf file uploaded to Brainshark?
The maximum size for an audio, video or .swf file is 100 MB, but we recommend that files be kept as small as possible to insure optimum playback results.
Are there any special considerations when creating videos for use in Brainshark?
Videos should be created for a 720 x 540 pixel window with an aspect ratio of 4:3. This will ensure the best quality when played back in the Brainshark player.

then a couple q&a
How can I make my video play at its original size in Brainshark?
Ensure the “Preserve original width and height of the video” checkbox is selected in the “Edit Attachment” tab in Brainshark.
Why does my video look choppy when I view it in Brainshark?
Like all content on the internet, video needs to travel over your internet connection for you to view it. If the video file is too large for the internet connection to handle, the video could look „choppy‟. The solution is to lower the bitrate of the video by lowering the quality or compression settings when the video is created.
Why does my screen capture look pixilated or grainy inside of Brainshark?
When displaying a screen capture video, the more the video has to resize, the worse it looks. For best results, try to keep the final size of the video to 720 x 540. The closer the original capture is to 720 x 540, the better your result will be.


sorry so long and hope this helps...

gg :-(

THANK YOU again for any and all help on this... YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

Now, as for Brainshark... WE are not paying for this... a broker we are trying to deal with and SELL a product to has purchased this brainshark space... and all competitors have been asked to upload a ppt with voiceover (5 min max) to sell their wares... but one competitor had a video... and I thought HOW COOL (and How hard could it be???? OK ... am I stupid or what???... sorry...)...

ANYWAYS... thought my graphic skills would make it an easy transition and wanted to learn this new video skill anyways... so off I went to make us a 5 minute sales pitch with graphic slides fading in and out... (I was able to do some cool graphics and transitions! but then they pixelated all to heck when I rendered... YIKES!)

When I uploaded test video to brainshark it was BADDDDD.... so I contacted their support peeps... and this is the reply I got...

"We have spent some time on this video, and it appears that it was not recorded in the correct format. We have looked at the native file and realize it does not meet our video best practices .
The format of the of the video was 320 X 240, however, our best practices suggest that videos should be created for a 720 x 540 pixel window with an aspect ratio of 4:3. This will ensure the best quality when played back in the Brainshark player.

To get the exact quality of the video, you should select the "preserve orginal size and format" on the edit slide tab. This will diplay the video as it was recorded and saved, which is in a much smaller format.

Please refer to http://cco.brainshark.com/documents/Video_Best_Practices.pdf?tx=CCO which is our bext practices document when creating future videos. This will help to create videos that will be displayed better in brainshark."

Well it was NOT recorded in 320x240... so that must be the result of the rendering/encoding of VP10? and some setting I checked erroneously or something...

I am going to try to render using latest suggestions of this forum and will let you know...

THANKS

GG

GRAPHICS QUESTION...

Remember I said I have graphical images that I fade in and out during the video??? and they look GREAT in VP10 but pixelate to the point of unreadbility after rendering (even before uploading to brainshark!)....

So.... couple questions...

what graphical format is BEST to use in Vegaspro 10? It doesn't seem to accept .eps which is my most common print media format. I would prefer to use vector (line) art as opposed to raster (pixel) art (eg. jpg) but a jpg seems to be all I could get into VP10.

Also WHAT resolution would you guys recommend.... for screen/online I am used to using 96dpi... but am guessing my original video is high-res so perhaps when it is rendering to 512kbps and downsampling the video that is where my beautiful graphics are getting trashed... so do you think I should make my graphics 300 dpi (standard for print media) OR higher? like 600 dpi... what is dpi resolution of video? (see my original post at top for settings used to shoot video please). ONE PROBLEM with higher res graphics is HIGHER file size and y final rendered video has to be under 100MB.

I am all ears and going off to experiment...

THANK YOU!

and btw - my friend who recc'd VegasPro to me... helped me edit video and taught me stuff in VP... he is AUDIO guy though and has VP6 not VP10... he helped me tweak audio and get rid of red out of range stuff etc.... and audio sounded NICEEEE in VP.... once rendered though.... boss back in a tunnel and BADDDDD audio....

Brainshark specs above call for MONO yet VP has mono option greyed out when rendering... have thread on audio forum and will try a couple of their suggestions... but thought I would throw this out there as well...

THANK YOU!

GG

'nother question... :-/

When inserting still graphics in VP10... is it better to cut video and insert on same timeline... OR insert above (and over) video on its own timeline... which is better and any tips or suggestions for this???

TY!

GG

Wow,
a zillion different questions so I'll try at least one, phew.

Your pixelation problem during the fade has nothing to do with the format of the graphic you used. So long as Vegas can read the file and it can read most such as JPG and PNG and PSD then that's all you really need to worry about. Clearly of course your source needs anough resolution but as you final rendered output is only 720x540 anything beyond that will be jus fine.

Why you're getting the pixelation during the fade is there isn't enough bandwidth. This would also explain why your video looks poorly. As Amendegw and I have found at 512Kbps you should be able to get usable quality with 720x540 resolution, certainly good enough for static graphics with fades / dissolves to hold up OK.

What could confuse you gien your background in graphics is endoing to higher resolution with low bandwidth can give a poor outcome. Much of the bandwidth is used up describing all those pixels so there's not enough left to handle the motion, a dissolve or a fade is "motion". It's when a pixel changes value from one frame to the next that you have motion in the video world.

Bob.

to amendegw:

For filetype I chose .mov as this was the original filetype my cam shot in and their "best practices" doc said to leave in original format as the less encoding the better...

Now... that being said... do any of you feel a certain filetype (mp4 or wmv) would be better... because they take practically anything...

And what is a swf... there was a section of the BP doc dedicated to this but I thought I read somewhere this is not a good type to use...

any suggestions on best file type to use gratefully accepted... and renderign now with amen's suggestions... then going to try the next one.

PLEASE NOTE that VP10 ReNDERED VIDEO LOOKED BAD BEFORE BRAINSHARK UPLOAD.... so my attempts to render to their specs were NOT RIGHT apparently... :-(

GG (up til midnight AGAIN... losing sleep... weight (not such a bad thing...:-)) and losing MY SANITY....

I WANT TO RETIRE TOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

(may be involuntariy retired if this doesn't work out....)

OH... and TODAY... my deadline just got bumped and my PERFECT finished product is expected on Monday.... waaaaahhhhhhhh!!!

gg

to farss (Bob)

"What I tried was to nest an original project into one set to match the output, then use pan/crop's Match Output Aspect to crop and render to your settings. For 512K Sorenson it looks remarkably good, I'm also retiming 50i to 27.970p!"

????? ok in English pleeeease!!!!??? how do I nest and match output... and haven't learned the pan/crop thingy I DID see the Soreson thing when rendering now... I think it was set to asorensen 3 but also saw plain Sorenson was an option <<< what is this and whats the dif between Sorenson and plain ver?

I also changed the audio sample rate to 44.1KHz. << actually they want mono audio sampled to 22.050 KHz 16 bit - I think

I've had a go at using mpeg-4 video as it should perform better at such a low bitrate but the render bombs out in 10.0c. Still Sorenson looks quite good plus we don't know which codecs Brainshark will accept inside .MOV and Sorenson is pretty safe."

????? what is bobing out in 10c? And what exactly is codec... have seen it thrown around... isn't it the translation VP10 is doing to my original? is it the final file type (like .mov, .wmv, .mp4 etc???)

I am soooo sorry for all the questions.... just overwhelmed and running on fumes.... (and panicking)... please don't let me overhwelm you.... and try to answer as many of my questions as possible...

I WILL DO GRAPHICS FOR ANYONE WHO HELPS ME AND NEED THEM... I DO EXCELLENT PRINT QUALITY WORK WITH ADOBE CREATIVE SUITE!

Thanks!

gg

AMEN!

OK so your specs rendered a MUCH better quality on my screen (still haven't uploaded to Brainshark aka BS)...

Two things....

first.... file size is now over their 100MB limit at like 140MB

second... video is letterboxed but graphics are NOT (why is that?) and can you or someone tell me exactly HOW to crop (and what sie or guide to use to crop to) to get rid of letter box....

BUT... audio sounds MUCH better.... GRAPHICS... look as B-E-A-U-tiful as the day I created them :-)... and boss is no longer streetched thin... though think he liked the video-weightwatchers version of himself... lol... though it was obviously stretched and not right....

Sooooo making progress.... now to reduce file size and lso see how this thing uploads and makes it through bainsharks filters...

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Your specific direction at settings helped TREMENDOUSLY!

GG :-)

...what is a codec?"

Take a deep breath during one of your renders and read the first paragraph here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec

Then, under the Render As option look at all the possibilities in Vegas. It's a lot to absorb all at once.