I ignored my upgrade date in January and have been so disenchanted with the prospect of upgrading in this market that I just bought a used i7-6850K to replace mine that failed on Friday. If the rot extends past the CPU, maybe I'll jump on the bandwagon. If I'm back up by Saturday, I'll likely forget the whole prospect for another six to nine months.

In the short run, I moved the work drives to another machine and it does suck. I remember why I upgraded last time.

@eikira

Any specific reason why you chose Intel? Because of iGPU?

That's part of it. For clip formats that benefit significantly from accelerated decoding, like hevc and av1. Also got my eye on avx512 which could have a dramatic impact on all cpu video processing.

@john_dennis I ignored my upgrade date in January and have been so disenchanted with the prospect of upgrading in this market ...

Tell me about it. Still haven't landed a video board and will be recycling one till something gives.

@Howard-Vigorita

I just finishing installing the used processor that arrived from Michigan this morning. Looks like I got a reprieve for $140.00. I'll start paying more attention to hardware developments in my spare time. I learned that I could probably upgrade my 12 year old office machine so the fall back experience isn't so radical.

Just got my new cpu in from B&H... lead times longer than usual but I don't see the price gouging for cpus and motherboards as for video boards. But Intel keeps changing it's socket so often that both usually need to be replaced making upgrade more costly. Also, the latest Intel cpus look like they're poised to challenge gpus in raw computational performance... soon as the crypto currency hardware manufacturers jump on them for embedded systems, they'll probably start depleting top-tier k- and x-series cpu supplies and driving up those prices.

I learned that I could probably upgrade my 12 year old office machine...

@john_dennis I have (4) 15 year-old "CM Stacker" cases with quality 750-1000W PSUs that I keep re-using for upgrades, including their affiliated Windows 10 activations... They have (12) front-facing/open 5.25" bays that hold all of my hot-swap drive trays for SSDs, RAID SATAs, updated USB-C & USB 3.2 front panel connectors, etc. If you have a good case & PSU keep them, but if you don't, choose good ones that will last a few upgrades...

But Intel keeps changing it's socket so often that both usually need to be replaced making upgrade more costly...

@Howard-Vigorita AMD did that with Threadripper too... The new motherboards also typically include onboard features that cost less than adding PCIe cards to old motherboards, so I don't mind updating the motherboard when I update the CPU... For instance, the $200 USD (Newegg Sale) ASRock W480 for my 11700K CPU is a workstation class motherboard (16 power phases for stability) that came with an onboard 10G network port, Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.2, 2.5 Gbps WiFi6 802.11ax, (3) M.2, etc... Adding just a few of those features on PCIe cards to an older motherboard would have cost more than the motherboard itself...

The ASUS Z390 WS I got for my 9900K system in 2019 was also $200 USD, but it did not come with 10G networking or TB3, so they have to be added... However, it has a PLX controller chip that maximizes PCIe bandwidth so I'm able to have (4) PCIe cards all working well together... Using a U.2 to M.2 adapter I was also able to have (3) onboard M.2 plus a 4th connected to PCIe...

@TheRhino

"If you have a good case & PSU keep them, but if you don't, choose good ones that will last a few upgrades..."

I have two cases that are able to withstand repeated upgrades, but the case for the machine that I use for personal/office work is very high quality, but dated.

"How high quality is it?" you ask.

The finish is painted inside and out with a paint that would make any Porsche owner swoon. It's made with enough steel to get the environmentalists marching around my house and the seams fit together so tightly that no emf gets in or out.

"How dated is it?" you ask.

It's so dated that...

• it has a firewire connection on the front panel.
• it has a floppy disk drive installed (but not powered).
• it has a removable rack for IDE drives.
• it has a Blu-ray/HD-DVD writer.
• the largest case flushing fan is 90 mm.
• it has an nvidia GTS450

I might be willing to risk an Intel Core i7-11700 Rocket Lake 8-Core 2.5 GHz LGA 1200 65W BX8070811700 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 750 minus the GTS450.

@john_dennis YEP, my cases are so old they used to have floppies, front Firewire ports, USB 2.0 only, IDEs, etc. but because they are so modular, I just swapped those out & installed a 5.25" Media Bay with USB-C, card reader, HD audio, etc. so it has modern ports up front... I still use SATAs, housed in hot-swap trays, setup in RAID0 for target drives because of the volume of footage I edit. Combined they are fast-enough I cannot tell the difference in Vegas between when the source footage is on them vs. my faster M.2 RAID... I have copies of everything elsewhere on my 10G network so all of my drives are RAID0 to maximize size & speed... My OS is on a 2.5" SSD to save the faster M.2 for video & once my apps load for the day I cannot tell the difference...

IMO the 11700K is a great bang/buck CPU... I prefer the $350 USD 11700K with unlocked multiplier & faster base frequency vs. the $280 11700 & have one in the 2nd system I updated. With just my re-used 10 year-old Noctua CPU cooler, all cores run at 5 ghz at 10 degrees cooler than my 9900K at 5 ghz... The onboard UHD 750 benefits from faster DDR4-3200 vs. UHD 630 which tops-out at DDR4-2933. If I set the DDR4 memory speed below 3200 I notice the difference in render speeds...

I hope V19 is better-optimized to take advantage of the extra speed of the UHD 750 iGPU... Currently, I cannot tell much difference between it and the UHD 630 on my 9900K system. I guest with Vegas it really comes down to the PCIe GPU... The VEGA 64 LQ makes my 9900K system slightly faster than my 11700K & VEGA 56 system... When I get V19 I might swap the VEGAs to see how the 11700K performs with the VEGA 64... The VEGA 64 LQ has its own attached radiator & fan so it's not as easy to move as a typical fan-cooled GPU...

I hope V19 is better-optimized to take advantage of the extra speed of the UHD 750 iGPU... Currently, I cannot tell much difference between it and the UHD 630 on my 9900K system. I guest with Vegas it really comes down to the PCIe GPU... The VEGA 64 LQ makes my 9900K system slightly faster than my 11700K & VEGA 56 system..

All hardware decoders decode at hundreds of frame's per second, they shouldn't be slowing anything down. When you do a GPU encode, with GPU decode you're really benchmarking CPU + GPU processing, You can potentially get 100% GPU encode/decode doing a basic 1 to 1 transcode and that becomes the bottleneck in the system, but other then for benchmarks you're most likely not doing that with Vegas

@TheRhino

I hope V19 is better-optimized to take advantage of the extra speed of the UHD 750 iGPU... Currently, I cannot tell much difference between it and the UHD 630 on my 9900K system.

Not really seeing a tremendous decoding performance difference with the uhd750 on the 11900k that I just fired up. Compared to the uhd630 on my 9900k. I brought up the 11900 without a pcie gpu and the igpu seemed almost capable of editing without a gpu. Have an air-cooled Vega64 in it at the moment which isn't up to the performance of the Radeon VII in my 9900k machine. But I followed your lead and put an aio liquid cooler on the 11900. All I can say is, "Where have I been?" Only went with a single radiator but finished 18 hours of prime95 small ffts with avx512 enabled and none of the cores topped 90C and the turbo clock hung in at around 4.8 ghz the whole way. Also tested AVX512 thoroughly and Vegas isn't using it at all. Only video app I've been able to get it up on is ffmpeg with libx265 which yielded a 3% speed increase... but no where near the 6x speed increase turned in by hevc_qsv. I don't think the 11700k has avx512 but you're not missing much. On the brighter side, the 11900k LC is turning in cpu-centric render times like for MainConcept and ProRes which are closing the gap with Vega64 vce and Intel qsv times.

@Howard-Vigorita

" I don't think the 11700k has avx512"

The i7-11700K does have the AVX-512 extension according to https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212047/intel-core-i711700k-processor-16m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html

Look at Instruction Set Extensions.

@john_dennis You're right... looks like all the 11th-gen Intels have it.

@TheRhino

it has a Blu-ray/HD-DVD writer.

hmmm that i doubt.

I might be willing to risk an Intel Core i7-11700 Rocket Lake 8-Core 2.5 GHz LGA 1200 65W BX8070811700 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 750 minus the GTS450.

Since New Nvenc is only avaible with GTX 10xx and the performance of Intel UHD 750 is waaaaay better, you can only win in this deal and will lose nothing, for even way lower power consumption. And way faster HW encoding and better quality. QSV might not be better than NewNvenc but its better as the old Nvenc. So go for it.

Yes, the 11700K has AVX-512, but running Aida64 & AVX stress-tests can result in abnormally high power draws & temps so I don't run them for lengthy periods unattended... The only difference between the 11700K & 11900K is the listed base/boost clock speed, theoretical overclock potential, and price. At the time, the 11900K was $200 more, which is what I paid for my motherboard, so I didn't feel it was worth the difference...

What helped me choose the 11xxx series was that Intel's website actually uses Vegas to show that when paired with the SAME 3080 GPU, the 11900K is 1.20X faster than a 5950X, 1.35X faster than a 5900X, 1.61X faster than a 10600X, and 1.88X faster than a 10900K.

What helped me choose the 11xxx series was that Intel's website actually uses Vegas to show that when paired with the SAME 3080 GPU, the 11900K is 1.20X faster than a 5950X, 1.35X faster than a 5900X, 1.61X faster than a 10600X, and 1.88X faster than a 10900K.

Unfortunately Intel have a history of being very deceptive with their benchmarks. Previously they have compared AMD vs Intel using video editing software that only had hardware acceleration (decode/encode) via Intel Quicksync, Intel won that test as expected

Because they are deceptive you should analyze how they could be deceptive with the current claim, and it's very obvious what they're doing, they're rendering from a source file of HEVC 4:2:2 color, something a 11900K can do with GPU Decode, while the 5950x, 5900x, 10600X and 10900K can't. The benchmarks don't reflect working with any other sort of file where 5950x and 5900x and 10900K would win

 

they're rendering from a source file of HEVC 4:2:2 color, something a 11900K can do with GPU Decode, while the 5950x, 5900x, 10600X and 10900K can't. The benchmarks don't reflect working with any other sort of file where 5950x and 5900x and 10900K would win

I realized just a week ago, that if you use in the settings 'OLD HEVC' decoder i got instantly flawless playback back for 4K footage on VP18.
But still, a win is a win, and more HEVC footage is being produced and imported in all NLE from newer devices. So its also up to Vegas to deliver compatibility and performance. And what if Intel finaly releases low end stand alone GPUs to just decode videos. If i would get a 70 USD UHD 750 (Xe) GPU i would think about to add one into my system to my AMD 5950X, and get probably the most out of it.

It's vastly inefficient but if you do have enough CPU, turning the GPU decoder off works best with Vegas, especially high frame rate video. There's only so much you can do though, it's a direct multiplier with timeline playback, 4 video tracks blended will use 4x the cpu and even a 5950x will run out of CPU. The Vegas GPU decode overload bug happens with all GPU decoders, but Intel GPU decode has the extra compatibility with codecs.

I also would buy a cheap Intel GPU just for the GPU decoder and use my Nvidia for Processing that way people can buy the better Amd CPU's and there not be a downside. I hope Vegas allows that.

@eikira

"it has a Blu-ray/HD-DVD writer.

hmmm that i doubt."

One thing I like about you @eikira is that you get your ignorance of subjects right out in the open so that we can all deal with it.

There were optical disc writers that were capable of writing Blu-ray as well as HD-DVD.

https://www.newegg.com/lg-model-ggc-h20l-internal/p/N82E16827136133

I wrote a lot of HD material to HD-DVD format on DVD-5 and DVD-9 media and had a player that could play them. I've since come to my senses. The last optical media that I wrote was a CD of one of my live recordings from 1974. I would encourage you to consider that people were doing creative things thousands of years before you were born.

One thing I like about you @eikira is that you get your ignorance of subjects right out in the open so that we can all deal with it.

 

You call my precision ignorance? When i read BluRay/HD-DVD writer, i read it it can write bluray and hd-dvd. Which i dont know any such drive that can burn BR and HD-DVD. To Burn HD material to a dvd5/dvd9 is absolutely not the same (sidenote, reminds me of the failed WMV-HD on DVD) as burning a HD-DVD its phyiscally a difference. I dont even know that a HD-DVD burner for the general public was released. So i was right, your Drive is even just a BR and HD-DVD reader and cant burn a BR (only ROM). And was on both claims of BR & HD-DVD writers... so why are you calling me then ignorant...
Does not mean i would not like such a drive, i have only an external HD-DVD ROM.

@eikira

"You call my precision ignorance?"

1. We're all ignorant about lots of things. Brain surgery is one of my weaknesses.

"When i read BluRay/HD-DVD writer, i read it it can write bluray and hd-dvd."

2. My writer actually wrote to HD-DVD media. Me, being me, never bought any for short form (< 40 minutes) content.

"Which i dont know any such drive that can burn BR and HD-DVD."

3. Take the link. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/proxy/e75a92619f6377eb54e7/?link=https%3A//www.newegg.com/lg-model-ggc-h20l-internal/p/N82E16827136133

2021-8-15 Updated link: https://www.lg.com/uk/support/product/lg-GGW-H20L

"To Burn HD material to a dvd5/dvd9 is absolutely not the same"

4. It was absolutely the same since HD-DVD was a red-laser media. I even burned Blu-ray format to DVD-5 and DVD-9 media long before I owned a Blu-ray writer.

* Not all players would play it, but mine did.

"I dont even know that a HD-DVD burner for the general public was released."

5. See, you didn't know and now you do.

So i was right, your Drive is even just a BR and HD-DVD reader and cant burn a BR (only ROM).

6. No, You were wrong. I have boxes of Blu-rays to prove it. It's unlikely I have any HD-DVD format material around because I remastered everything I cared about and gave my Toshiba HD-DVD player away.

"And was on both claims of BR & HD-DVD writers... so why are you calling me then ignorant..."

7. See Number 1

"Does not mean i would not like such a drive, i have only an external HD-DVD ROM."

8. You can have this one when I'm finished with it.

1. We're all ignorant about lots of things. Brain surgery is one of my weaknesses.

Thats not the point of it, not at all. You claimed you are in possesion of a Bluray/HD-DVD writer.
Which you are clearly not. Its a simple fact. Neither can you burn BR nor HD-DVD with that linked drive...

2. My writer actually wrote to HD-DVD media. Me, being me, never bought any for short form (< 40 minutes) content.

Its simply not the same to write a file structure+datastream format to a DVD as to a HD-DVD or BR. Its a physically difference

4. It was absolutely the same since HD-DVD was a red-laser media. I even burned Blu-ray format to DVD-5 and DVD-9 media long before I owned a Blu-ray writer.

Wrong, HD-DVD have a way more higher density, and needed therefor a different spectrum, a more narrow laser. Blue-Violett. Because the Media HD-DVD comes in 15GB singlelayer, 30GB duallayer or 50-52GB triplelayer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
405nm blu laser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
650nm red laser writing (EDIT)

Would it be the same manufacturers of players would not needed to produce different drives with different laser. And even studios would have been so happy to use old fashioned DVD, how much cost would have been saved (even a new Disc-Generation war would not be needed).

* Not all players would play it, but mine did.

You are not so clear what you mean here. But i am pretty sure you mean your stand alone HD-DVD player could read your DVD with HD-DVD filestructure. Which is no surprise, since it understands the filestructure and the old physical DVD.

5. See, you didn't know and now you do.

What i meant there is, that i have never seen a HD-DVD burner. I was in charge for the blank disc stock in my workplace. We sold palets of blank discs weekly... so i needed to know what disc were available and what would most likely be on the market. And i also never saw a HD-DVD blank in retail ever.

6. No, You were wrong. I have boxes of Blu-rays to prove it. It's unlikely I have any HD-DVD format material around because I remastered everything I cared about and gave my Toshiba HD-DVD player away.

You might have boxes of Blu-Rays, but certainly they were not burned with that drive. Because this drive cant burn BR, only at most BR filestructur on DVD. which is not the same. If it can burn a 25GB or even 50GB BR, i would be surprised, and the manifacturer of that drive just hided a nice function.

7. See Number 1

Right... you still mix up physical media with filestructure.

8. You can have this one when I'm finished with it.

No, what i meant was i would have liked to have such one back in the old days. Now i have only 2 real HD-DVDs, and i still have my XBOX external HD-DVD drive (dont know if it still would work).
 

I dont really get it why you still claim you have a HD-DVD writer, i dont see the point in such a claim. But i have clearly shown that this claim of yours was simply, let me put it in nice words, not accurate and had phantasy in it.

@eikira

Updated link to drive specs with the correct drive model number. LG-GGW-H20L

Comparison of file structure of commercial disc to home-made disc.

I apologize to @Howard-Vigorita for high-jacking his thread.