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Peter
Peter
Catalyst Edit
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videoITguy
wrote on 5/15/2015, 11:57 AM
To SonyPCH - no can of worms at all. You did the forum here a great service by just clueing us in on the new Sony direction.
YOU will get a lot of pushback from the diehard Vegas community small as it is, to establish a clear direction on where Sony is going. Some of that info is closely guarded as proprietary to the company. That is understandable.
What the consumer public is left with is to puzzle over the developments and try to sort out for themselves what direction to head.
YOU will get a lot of pushback from the diehard Vegas community small as it is, to establish a clear direction on where Sony is going. Some of that info is closely guarded as proprietary to the company. That is understandable.
What the consumer public is left with is to puzzle over the developments and try to sort out for themselves what direction to head.
Marc S
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:09 PM
Hmmm.. let's see. $299 for a basic editor with about 3 features in order to edit my Sony X70 footage or $250 for a year of Premiere CC. Never thought anything would make the Cloud look good to me but Sony is doing it.
I'm also looking seriously at the upcoming Davinci Resolve 12 release. Will be interesting to see if they can get it running faster on a more modest computer. According to their press release: "This is a really huge update and we have added more into this release than we have in the last 5 years. A team of almost 100 people have been working on this release and we think it’s the most exciting ever!"
Can someone please tell me how many people are working to fix bugs in Sony Vegas???
I'm also looking seriously at the upcoming Davinci Resolve 12 release. Will be interesting to see if they can get it running faster on a more modest computer. According to their press release: "This is a really huge update and we have added more into this release than we have in the last 5 years. A team of almost 100 people have been working on this release and we think it’s the most exciting ever!"
Can someone please tell me how many people are working to fix bugs in Sony Vegas???
megabit
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:13 PM
The only remaining hint that this MS Movie Maker - class NLE (with advanced format support) may NOT be Vegas replacement, after all, is this excerpt from the promotion email"
"the Catalyst Production Suite increases your post-production power to get you from camera to final edit faster"
Or is it wishful thinking?
Piotr
PS. Even if Catalyst is indeed planned to complement Vegas (with demanding 4k formats that it cannot handle properly), the price would make the entire suit (Catalyst Edit+Vegas Pro) one of the more expensive NLE on the market. A rather expensive work-around to enable Vegas users edit today's 4K formats...
"the Catalyst Production Suite increases your post-production power to get you from camera to final edit faster"
Or is it wishful thinking?
Piotr
PS. Even if Catalyst is indeed planned to complement Vegas (with demanding 4k formats that it cannot handle properly), the price would make the entire suit (Catalyst Edit+Vegas Pro) one of the more expensive NLE on the market. A rather expensive work-around to enable Vegas users edit today's 4K formats...
pwppch
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:34 PM
"Yeah it would be very kind and generous of you guys to let us know why you deleted "it's not a vegas replacement" from your previous post. Something you need to tell us? Can you tell us why you would take the time to go back and delete 1/4 of an entire sentence please?"
Edit is not a replacement for Vegas.
I am now sorry I even mentioned that Edit was released.
I honestly just wanted to see what the Vegas community thinks of this new tool set and the workflows it offers.
Don't read between the lines. Just a new product release.
Peter
Edit is not a replacement for Vegas.
I am now sorry I even mentioned that Edit was released.
I honestly just wanted to see what the Vegas community thinks of this new tool set and the workflows it offers.
Don't read between the lines. Just a new product release.
Peter
BruceUSA
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:43 PM
Nick Hope.
Thanks for clarify the actual cost.
Thanks for clarify the actual cost.
OldSmoke
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:50 PM
Peter
I personally do not believe in having one tool per taks. I have not seen a single feature in either of the 3 current segments that VP would not be able to handle, would it be bug free.
Edit: By the way, it's not just a trial, it's commercially available I seriousle question who would spend $300.00 for an editor that does as good as nothing. Catalust at the current stage should be given free. Catalyst Prepare 2.0 still cant preview on a secondary windows display.
I personally do not believe in having one tool per taks. I have not seen a single feature in either of the 3 current segments that VP would not be able to handle, would it be bug free.
Edit: By the way, it's not just a trial, it's commercially available I seriousle question who would spend $300.00 for an editor that does as good as nothing. Catalust at the current stage should be given free. Catalyst Prepare 2.0 still cant preview on a secondary windows display.
videoITguy
wrote on 5/15/2015, 12:54 PM
As SonyPCH so deftly points out - this Edit app is not a replacement for Vegas but really a complement as some have understood.
While some Vegas users will quickly point out that a sum of theoretical ownership in one bite for Edit + Vegas would be large amount for one-time investment in an NLE..consider that most current users of Vegas are not new purchasers.
We have ran other threads ad nauseam about the cost of ownership for VegasPro - and for the serious customer it averages about $99/year assuming in-place upgrades over the last 15 years. That is really a very good value.
Now consider Sony is wanting to push Catalyst into new markets - like DaVinci Resolve, the Adobe Cloud, and Avid to name a few. The cost of Catalyst in comparison is peanuts no matter how you slice it.
While some Vegas users will quickly point out that a sum of theoretical ownership in one bite for Edit + Vegas would be large amount for one-time investment in an NLE..consider that most current users of Vegas are not new purchasers.
We have ran other threads ad nauseam about the cost of ownership for VegasPro - and for the serious customer it averages about $99/year assuming in-place upgrades over the last 15 years. That is really a very good value.
Now consider Sony is wanting to push Catalyst into new markets - like DaVinci Resolve, the Adobe Cloud, and Avid to name a few. The cost of Catalyst in comparison is peanuts no matter how you slice it.
NickHope
wrote on 5/15/2015, 1:08 PM
Peter, as I see it, the contributors to this forum generally tend not to be the single-role professional that these new "focused" apps seem to be aimed at, but rather the "do-it-all", "one-man-band" type of user. Such users want reassurance that there is a future for a fully-featured SCS NLE (i.e. Vegas) or collection of apps (i.e. Catalyst with a lot more than is currently being offered).
Unless someone tells us differently, the inevitable conclusion based on the evidence so far, is that Vegas has reached the end of the road, and Catalyst for many is likely to come up short and expensive. Hence all the negativity. Telling us that "Edit is not a replacement for Vegas", doesn't reassure us that there will be any further updates to Vegas.
Unless someone tells us differently, the inevitable conclusion based on the evidence so far, is that Vegas has reached the end of the road, and Catalyst for many is likely to come up short and expensive. Hence all the negativity. Telling us that "Edit is not a replacement for Vegas", doesn't reassure us that there will be any further updates to Vegas.
bigrock
wrote on 5/15/2015, 1:34 PM
The $100 discount is nice, but not really enough to get me to buy what is a truly basic editor. This is really so confusing. As a user since before version 5 I am now wondering whether it is time to jump to Premiere. I know most of my plugins I can get Premiere versions (not something I want to do). What we need is a definitive statement on the Roadmap for Vegas, when issues are going to be fixed, and what the near term (3 year) intentions are. Otherwise I suspect a lot will jump ship, and for me and I bet a lot of others it won't be to Catalyst.
videoITguy
wrote on 5/15/2015, 2:03 PM
Unofficial but AUTHORIZED leak about internal SCS affairs -
" I the author of this leak, am thinking "News to me! -that the Vegas development team was let go" So just in case this rumor was being spread around I, the author of this note, thought I would raise the topic with SCS direct. Within 24 hours i received the following from ...a considered reliable source:
"Hello Guy. I'm on the road right now ...... its OK with me as an SCS insider if you post back that you just spoke with the director of marketing and there have been no lay offs at Sony Creative Software and in fact the team is currently working on another update for VP that will go out later this summer. May 8, 2015
" I the author of this leak, am thinking "News to me! -that the Vegas development team was let go" So just in case this rumor was being spread around I, the author of this note, thought I would raise the topic with SCS direct. Within 24 hours i received the following from ...a considered reliable source:
"Hello Guy. I'm on the road right now ...... its OK with me as an SCS insider if you post back that you just spoke with the director of marketing and there have been no lay offs at Sony Creative Software and in fact the team is currently working on another update for VP that will go out later this summer. May 8, 2015
Marc S
wrote on 5/15/2015, 2:08 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the Sony software division has a history of not finishing what they've started. When it comes to Vegas just consider Media manager and the mutiple half-baked feature poor titlers.
I personally would never buy into one of their products based on a promise of more features in the future. Perhaps Catalyst will turn into an awesome editor someday but I'll be waiting and actively looking into other options if they do not continue to develop Vegas.
Did I mention I cannot open my Sony X70 files in Vegas?
I personally would never buy into one of their products based on a promise of more features in the future. Perhaps Catalyst will turn into an awesome editor someday but I'll be waiting and actively looking into other options if they do not continue to develop Vegas.
Did I mention I cannot open my Sony X70 files in Vegas?
ForumAdmin
wrote on 5/15/2015, 2:10 PM
Please see a related post.
The team at Sony Creative Software is still going strong and we're collaborating within worldwide Sony more than we ever have before.
The team at Sony Creative Software is still going strong and we're collaborating within worldwide Sony more than we ever have before.
DeadRadioStar
wrote on 5/15/2015, 2:46 PM
Well, whatever happens with Catalyst Edit | Prepare, Catalyst Browse is a pretty neat freebie ..... it will certainly find its uses.
John_Cline
wrote on 5/15/2015, 3:06 PM
Good god, you guys are brutal! No wonder SCS rarely participates in the forum. ALL software has bugs and there has been nothing in Vegas that even comes close to being a "show stopper" for me. I have made literally hundreds of thousands of dollars using Vegas over the years and I consider SCS to be one of my most valuable partners along with Sony for their video hardware. The Catalyst Suite is another set of tools to use in conjunction with Vegas, I'll check it out and if I need the tools, I'll buy it. A few billable hours and it's paid for. No big deal.
wwjd
wrote on 5/15/2015, 3:17 PM
download and try it. it is NOT a Vegas replacement at all, and that is easy to see. As a medium to advanced Vegas user, Catalyst has nothing for me.
winrockpost
wrote on 5/15/2015, 3:52 PM
export as , apple fcp... first choice , vegas last choice...no not alphabetical, go get those guys with the apple on their cars!! big market for sure! Browser pretty cool...edit makes movie maker look good....not sure what the purpose of it is...but I'm sure there is a plan....not worth anywhere near the price...of course I am missing something I'm sure
LoTN
wrote on 5/15/2015, 4:24 PM
Marc S:
Can someone please tell me how many people are working to fix bugs in Sony Vegas???
It's been a long time I decided to get rid of that issue while throwing VP out ...
Can someone please tell me how many people are working to fix bugs in Sony Vegas???
It's been a long time I decided to get rid of that issue while throwing VP out ...
monoparadox
wrote on 5/15/2015, 5:25 PM
@videoTguy, good post. There are times to wax philosophical and for those old timers like me who are on ten plus versions of Vegas this is probably one of those times. But, I'm finding the world less inclined to philosophy and more inclined to profit, turnover and fighting the next battle. Change will do its thing and it doesn't lend itself well to the peace of knowing what tomorrow brings . . . so, even as an old fart I'm going to embrace the change and keep on slapping it on the ass ala Maj. 'King' Kong' -- Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove.
Cause I'm just going to drop dead someday, anyway.
--tom
Cause I'm just going to drop dead someday, anyway.
--tom
JohnnyRoy
wrote on 5/15/2015, 5:37 PM
In the other forum post it was pointed out that:
• Both Catalyst Prepare and Catalyst Edit support exporting storyboards and projects into Vegas Pro for fine craft editing when the story grows to require such additional power
Two missing features from Vegas Pro that other NLE's are good at are workgroup collaboration and media management. Perhaps Catalyst Prepare and Edit are the missing stages at the beginning of the production pipeline to manage all of the footage coming in, by organizing it, color correcting it, and making a rough cut for someone else to do the detailed editing. If you think of it that way it makes sense.
I'm sure it's editing capabilities will improve over time but it looks like Vegas Pro editors should just continue using Vegas Pro for now unless Prepare can ingest footage that Vegas Pro can't in which case it becomes a pre-edit step in your workflow. much like CineForm Neo Scene was in the early days of HDV or GoPro Studio is for processing GoPro footage before editing.
~jr
• Both Catalyst Prepare and Catalyst Edit support exporting storyboards and projects into Vegas Pro for fine craft editing when the story grows to require such additional power
Two missing features from Vegas Pro that other NLE's are good at are workgroup collaboration and media management. Perhaps Catalyst Prepare and Edit are the missing stages at the beginning of the production pipeline to manage all of the footage coming in, by organizing it, color correcting it, and making a rough cut for someone else to do the detailed editing. If you think of it that way it makes sense.
I'm sure it's editing capabilities will improve over time but it looks like Vegas Pro editors should just continue using Vegas Pro for now unless Prepare can ingest footage that Vegas Pro can't in which case it becomes a pre-edit step in your workflow. much like CineForm Neo Scene was in the early days of HDV or GoPro Studio is for processing GoPro footage before editing.
~jr
farss
wrote on 5/15/2015, 5:38 PM
SonyPCH said:
[I]" I honestly just wanted to see what the Vegas community thinks of this new tool set and the workflows it offers"[/I]
The Catalyst toolset certainly has a place in the grand scheme of things but probably not for the majority of Vegas users.
There's a very real demand for tools that enable DoPs to show clients how their footage looks or will look. Having a basic "edit" capability in the suite is a great idea as well. The whole "front end" concept is fine and there's a considerable market for a tool that runs on a laptop / Surface Pro.
The big challenge the product line faces is that it's from Sony. DoPs are asked to work with cameras from an expanding range of manufacturers from GoPro to Sony, BMD and AJA. Obviously Sony software will favour Sony cameras just as BMD software will favour BMD cameras. This is creating a nightmare that no one wants to be part of and they will push back.
I'd add it'd be great to see some tutorials showing who this new toolset is meant to work with Vegas. So far I'm seeing features in Catalyst that are great but go back to Vegas and they're missing. That's hardly confidence building for either product line.
Bob.
[I]" I honestly just wanted to see what the Vegas community thinks of this new tool set and the workflows it offers"[/I]
The Catalyst toolset certainly has a place in the grand scheme of things but probably not for the majority of Vegas users.
There's a very real demand for tools that enable DoPs to show clients how their footage looks or will look. Having a basic "edit" capability in the suite is a great idea as well. The whole "front end" concept is fine and there's a considerable market for a tool that runs on a laptop / Surface Pro.
The big challenge the product line faces is that it's from Sony. DoPs are asked to work with cameras from an expanding range of manufacturers from GoPro to Sony, BMD and AJA. Obviously Sony software will favour Sony cameras just as BMD software will favour BMD cameras. This is creating a nightmare that no one wants to be part of and they will push back.
I'd add it'd be great to see some tutorials showing who this new toolset is meant to work with Vegas. So far I'm seeing features in Catalyst that are great but go back to Vegas and they're missing. That's hardly confidence building for either product line.
Bob.
winrockpost
wrote on 5/15/2015, 7:41 PM
what features are you seeing Bob that are great ? and what is a DoPs
thanks
thanks
VidMus
wrote on 5/15/2015, 7:47 PM
After reading all of these posts, I think the marketing team at SCS is failing to get the message across.
OK, so it is not a Vegas replacement but a tool to enhance Vegas? I still do not see how it will benefit a one man band person like me!
Money is extremely tight and I need to know WHY I would want/need to purchase the suite.
Do not fuss about our replies, TALK TO US!!!
OK, so it is not a Vegas replacement but a tool to enhance Vegas? I still do not see how it will benefit a one man band person like me!
Money is extremely tight and I need to know WHY I would want/need to purchase the suite.
Do not fuss about our replies, TALK TO US!!!
bdg
wrote on 5/15/2015, 7:52 PM
Well I gave the trial a quick go. It wouldn't import any of my vegas projects so I tried creating a new one. It didn't do anything I couldn't do better in Vegas.
The other part of it imported one of my .avi files but played it upside down. No, thanks, I don't need that ability.
I like Vegas because of its sound capabilities.
DoP is director of photography. The guy behind the cam.
The other part of it imported one of my .avi files but played it upside down. No, thanks, I don't need that ability.
I like Vegas because of its sound capabilities.
DoP is director of photography. The guy behind the cam.
farss
wrote on 5/15/2015, 9:17 PM
risce1 said:
[I]"what features are you seeing Bob that are great?"[/I]
It plays video from the Sony F5 camera with LUTs applied smooth as silk. Being able to cut scenes together is also a plus. In all it means by the end of a days shoot the Directory Of Photography and/or the client can know what's been shot will look great and the editors and/or director can know they've got the coverage they need.
Not a facility I can see me ever needing nor I suspect many here hut it does have a place at the pointy end of the business be it for TVCs or episodic drama.
Even shows that were being shot on film had the video taps from the camera recorded via wireless links to "the van". There the assistant editors would drop them onto a timeline. By the end of the day everyone could get a good night's sleep knowing what was "in the can" should be good to go.
Bob.
[I]"what features are you seeing Bob that are great?"[/I]
It plays video from the Sony F5 camera with LUTs applied smooth as silk. Being able to cut scenes together is also a plus. In all it means by the end of a days shoot the Directory Of Photography and/or the client can know what's been shot will look great and the editors and/or director can know they've got the coverage they need.
Not a facility I can see me ever needing nor I suspect many here hut it does have a place at the pointy end of the business be it for TVCs or episodic drama.
Even shows that were being shot on film had the video taps from the camera recorded via wireless links to "the van". There the assistant editors would drop them onto a timeline. By the end of the day everyone could get a good night's sleep knowing what was "in the can" should be good to go.
Bob.