Color Correcting / Grading CLOG3 Footage & Vegas Limitations?

MarkAnthony121 wrote on 12/3/2023, 3:34 PM

I've been trying to get better at correcting scenes like this where the subjects are shadowed and the sky is blown out. The color corrected shot on the right was done in LIGHTROOM. I was able to easily pull down highlights, boost the shadows and add saturation (a little flat still but you get the point). However in Vegas I simply CANNOT achieve these results! Anyone able to get close to this and let me know HOW you did it? I've tried the grading panel for highlights, mids and shadows but it doesn't work. For example it seems to give that 'lifted' shadows look instead of actually bringing out the details in the shadows. The only way I ever got close was using color curves, heavily boosting the low end, pulling down the highlights and adding contrast/saturation. And that was close to this Lightroom image. Is it just wishful thinking on my part and simply just the limitation of what Vegas can do?

Oh yes sorry, here's a link to the raw clip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pqagfwsnSPICnwksL5N96sryE9wEgTg4/view?usp=sharing

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Comments

RogerS wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:19 AM

The LUTs I linked to are technical LUTs for Canon cameras by Canon depending on what you're trying to do (HDR or regular DR).

Colorfast 2 is a NewBlue product that came with some version of VEGAS I got and has been with me ever since. You don't have it in Fx do you?

I did the correction LUT + exposure in the color grading panel and then brought down the highlights and added saturation with Colorfast.

My actual workflow is Leeming LUT + Graide Color Curves and I don't find a need to head to Resolve for the most part (though it's a very pleasant program to work with for color correction).

MarkAnthony121 wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:23 AM

The LUTs I linked to are technical LUTs for Canon cameras by Canon depending on what you're trying to do (HDR or regular DR).

Colorfast 2 is a NewBlue product that came with some version of VEGAS I got and has been with me ever since. You don't have it in Fx do you?

I did the correction LUT + exposure in the color grading panel and then brought down the highlights and added saturation with Colorfast.

My actual workflow is Leeming LUT + Graide Color Curves and I don't find a need to head to Resolve for the most part (though it's a very pleasant program to work with for color correction).

Oh I know NewBlue, I'll check all this out tomorrow!

Grazie wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:36 AM

NBCF2 OFF:

NBCF2 ON:

ColorFast2 has the ability to make Masks based on HIGH, MEDs, and LOW. Each mask can then be adjusted by Levels, Saturation, and Tint, and the Skin tones can also be masked. It is a MASSIVE valuable tool, especially for me who is "Digitally Challenged"!

MarkAnthony121 wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:39 AM

NBCF2 OFF:

NBCF2 ON:

ColorFast2 has the ability to make Masks based on HIGH, MEDs, and LOW. Each mask can then be adjusted by Levels, Saturation, and Tint, and the Skin tones can also be masked. It is a MASSIVE valuable tool, especially for me who is "Digitally Challenged"!

Will definitely check this out!

alifftudm95 wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:46 AM

If you want some precise color surgical, I recommend round trip it to Resolve. VEGAS still limited in terms of coloring tool.

Grazie wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:50 AM

@MarkAnthony121 - You are in the realms of salvaging this sequence:

1 - Lessons learned - Never, if you can, shoot into the Sun, esp with a Bride dress! Been there done that.

2 - Some great verbal photographer instructions are going on, use them as ambiance and place them at key movement of the couple. It could be great!

3 - Cheesy, but augment this with a Flash and Held movement.

4 - Cut out any footage that is really blown out.

5 - Slo-Mo is your friend!

Two seasons as a Wedding 3rd and 2nd Run n Gunner and editor! - Drove me bonkers, but great fun. Many stories that still amuse my friends and family.

Adis-a wrote on 12/4/2023, 7:53 AM

As always: want the clouds - expose for clouds. Want faces - expose for faces. Want both, but contrast is too big - light scene!

MarkAnthony121 wrote on 12/4/2023, 12:16 PM

As always: want the clouds - expose for clouds. Want faces - expose for faces. Want both, but contrast is too big - light scene!

Yes friend, I do know these rules but in run and gun wedding situations you can't usually light the scene and sometimes you catch a great shot with the exposure wrong and you want to make it look the best it can ya know. And since I edit in Vegas I PERSONALLY don't have the skill to properly brighten the subjects if I expose for the sky, and I hate over exposed backgrounds when it's 70% of the frame. But what you did here looks awesome, can I ask what adjustments you made?

Adis-a wrote on 12/4/2023, 12:31 PM

As always: want the clouds - expose for clouds. Want faces - expose for faces. Want both, but contrast is too big - light scene!

Yes friend, I do know these rules but in run and gun wedding situations you can't usually light the scene and sometimes you catch a great shot with the exposure wrong and you want to make it look the best it can ya know. And since I edit in Vegas I PERSONALLY don't have the skill to properly brighten the subjects if I expose for the sky, and I hate over exposed backgrounds when it's 70% of the frame. But what you did here looks awesome, can I ask what adjustments you made?

@MarkAnthony121

First, I selected appropriate IDT:

then ODT:

Then used a Boris FX - color correction tool, draw a mask (Mocha is built in) and dimmed down the sky. Then draw another mask around their faces and brightened them. That's about it.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 12/4/2023, 2:39 PM

To make alpha-masks out of blown out skys or windows in Vegas, I find Color Corrector Secondary one of the most convenient ways to do it. Lets me construct dynamic masks based on color, luminance, and saturation. Works well all by its lonesome so long as nothing in the subject area is also blown out. This example was a close call because of the white wedding gown. But its exposure made it easy to distinguish. Otherwise additional stacked fixed masks or AI Depth would have been required.

I used the Vegas media generator to make the clouds on a blue backdrop but an optimally exposed video of the sky with drifting clouds would be more natural.

Btw, the little veg I posted above used the Canon cg-wdr 65-point clog3-to-bt709 lut from their official r5/c70/xf605 pack. Also, I drop the manufacturer luts for my cameras into this folder: "C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 21.0\OFX Video Plug-Ins\Vfx1.ofx.bundle\Contents\Resources\AutoLooks" That way they show up in the Vegas CGP camera-lut drop-down... I tried the clog3 default lut in that dropdown and results were not as nice as with the higher-quality official Canon lut.

mark-y wrote on 12/4/2023, 5:03 PM

The warm high-key look is very popular with young couples these days, and is a grading technique best suited to 10 bit source. This used legacy levels, white balance, and color balance in VP18. No wheels, masks, or luts.

mark-y wrote on 12/4/2023, 7:14 PM

REC 709 and REC 2020 are Y'cBcR video colorspace sets, there are also many RGB variants.

P3 is a monitor colorspace set, unrelated to the video except at delivery.

Grazie wrote on 12/4/2023, 10:36 PM

REC 709 and REC 2020 are Y'cBcR video colorspace sets, there are also many RGB variants.

P3 is a monitor colorspace set, unrelated to the video except at delivery.

@mark-y - I can’t tell you how glad I am at seeing you back on this thread! Well, I’m glad 😊.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 12/5/2023, 5:11 AM

The tread title is about grading of c-log3 and Vegas limitations. While this is a specific topic, where I am not sure how the general comments help really.

The general statement was and is, the c-log3 footage can be graded in Vegas in a quite good way, using the color grading portal. Both to SDR but also HDR - and I prefer HDR, since it is possible to maintain the huge dynamic range that is available in the original log Canon footage in a nice way. The transformation to SDR seems to be more tricky, if one wishes to maintain important parts of the dynamic range.

However, for sure there are also limitations. That beginns with the weak playback behaviour of HEVC together with an ACES transformation at the moment in Vegas, even if there may be some improvements in the future. I would recommend not to shoot this footage as HEVC, to avoid that at the moment.