For developers: Raw CinemaDNG support in VP15 and 16? And 8K?

Dawn32 wrote on 9/9/2018, 2:17 PM

Recently I was surprised to find out that Vegas Pro 15 doesn't open Raw CinemaDNG files. I tried to open the sample files from BMPCC 4K in Vegas Pro 15 and failed ("stream attributes couldn't be determined").

I know I can open these files in Resolve and re-export them to Vegas. But Vegas is missing a quite essential opportunity here, I think.

These days it is important to support this format (as well as other formats from modern cameras), as it is a direct Vegas Pro's market/audience, who works with these files. Especially BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K people, who seem to be in Vegas Pro target interest (i.e. low budget filmmaker pros and enthusiasts). Vegas Pro, in my opinion, is still very superior to Resolve in terms of being fast-flexible-convenient editor, so there would be a perfect sense to give Vegas more features to win (or to not lose) the competition.

Is there Raw CinemaDNG support in VP16 or plans to implement it?

Just in case, here is the link to BMPCC 4K official Raw CinemaDNG sample footage which VP15 failed to open: https://downloads.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/originals/Mountain-Bike.zip

Thank you.

P.S. Full 8K support, anyone? The TVs are already out there being produced, the Japan has several big TV stations broadcasting in 8K already.

 

Comments

Former user wrote on 9/9/2018, 3:37 PM

I queried it here also ... https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/can-vegas-pro-import-export-cinemadng-raw--111053/#ca686287

Marco. wrote on 9/9/2018, 5:44 PM

Actually all versions of Vegas Pro support CinemaDNG if only the codec is installed on the Windows OS.

Here I opened the sequence you linked above in VP14:

BruceUSA wrote on 9/9/2018, 7:08 PM

As Marco say. You need to have the specific codec install so Vegas can see it. Here is my example. My still pictures shot in raw. I bought and installed the raw codec. Now I can see my raw file in Window show up just as jepeg. When I import that raw still picture into vegas. I was able to see it and edit just as normal.

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Red Prince wrote on 9/9/2018, 8:38 PM

Here is my example.

Where?

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RogerS wrote on 9/9/2018, 9:56 PM

Vegas doesn't do raw demosaicing does it?

BruceUSA wrote on 9/9/2018, 10:16 PM

Here is my example.

Where?

Sorry about that. Here it is .

Intel i9 Core Ultra 285K Overclocked all P Cores @5.6, all E-Cores @5ghz               

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48GB DDR5 -8200mhz Overclocked @8800mhz                  

Crucial T705 nvme .M2 2TB Gen 5  OS. 4TB  gen 4 storage                    

RTX 5080 16GB  Overclocked 3.1ghz, Memory Bandwidth increased from 960 GB/s to 1152 GB/s                                                            

Custom built hard tube watercooling.                            

MSI PSU 1250W, Windows 11 Pro

 

set wrote on 9/9/2018, 10:22 PM

uh, where to find the codec?

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BruceUSA wrote on 9/9/2018, 10:30 PM

you have to buy it. I cost 10$ . Its make life much easier for edit raw file. You can see your raw file in picture, othervise, you would only see .cr2 example.

https://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

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RTX 5080 16GB  Overclocked 3.1ghz, Memory Bandwidth increased from 960 GB/s to 1152 GB/s                                                            

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Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/10/2018, 2:59 AM

you have to buy it. I cost 10$ . Its make life much easier for edit raw file. You can see your raw file in picture, othervise, you would only see .cr2 example.

https://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

Have you experience with that codec package and Vegas? In the past we were warning typically to install codec packages, but Maybe that is wrong in that case?

And - any experience how fast the CDNG editing is in Vegas? In Terms of timeline and preview Performance?

Last changed by Wolfgang S. on 9/10/2018, 2:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Marco. wrote on 9/10/2018, 3:02 AM

For CinemaDNG the free Adobe RAW codec works fine.

Former user wrote on 9/10/2018, 4:07 AM

https://web.archive.org/web/20150305042511/http://www.adobe.com:80/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=5495&fileID=5491

Free Cinema DNG Codec.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/10/2018, 4:51 AM

https://web.archive.org/web/20150305042511/http://www.adobe.com:80/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=5495&fileID=5491

Free Cinema DNG Codec.

Sure, but not really with a high Playback Performance in UHD/4K. Wonder if the codec package is better here.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Former user wrote on 9/10/2018, 4:54 AM

Yes, I already pointed to its limitations in reference to my previous thread, see 2nd post in this thread.

BruceUSA wrote on 9/10/2018, 6:58 AM

you have to buy it. I cost 10$ . Its make life much easier for edit raw file. You can see your raw file in picture, othervise, you would only see .cr2 example.

https://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

Have you experience with that codec package and Vegas? In the past we were warning typically to install codec packages, but Maybe that is wrong in that case?

And - any experience how fast the CDNG editing is in Vegas? In Terms of timeline and preview Performance?

No problem what so ever. I have been using this codec for a few yrs already. I never had any thing unusual that cause Vegas performance . Both of my computers has no issues what so ever.

 

Intel i9 Core Ultra 285K Overclocked all P Cores @5.6, all E-Cores @5ghz               

MSI MEG Z890 ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4                                

48GB DDR5 -8200mhz Overclocked @8800mhz                  

Crucial T705 nvme .M2 2TB Gen 5  OS. 4TB  gen 4 storage                    

RTX 5080 16GB  Overclocked 3.1ghz, Memory Bandwidth increased from 960 GB/s to 1152 GB/s                                                            

Custom built hard tube watercooling.                            

MSI PSU 1250W, Windows 11 Pro

 

BruceUSA wrote on 9/10/2018, 7:01 AM

you have to buy it. I cost 10$ . Its make life much easier for edit raw file. You can see your raw file in picture, othervise, you would only see .cr2 example.

https://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

Have you experience with that codec package and Vegas? In the past we were warning typically to install codec packages, but Maybe that is wrong in that case?

And - any experience how fast the CDNG editing is in Vegas? In Terms of timeline and preview Performance?

No problem what so ever. I have been using this codec for a few yrs already. I never had any thing unusual that cause Vegas performance . Both of my computers has no issues what so ever.

 

 

you have to buy it. I cost 10$ . Its make life much easier for edit raw file. You can see your raw file in picture, othervise, you would only see .cr2 example.

https://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

Have you experience with that codec package and Vegas? In the past we were warning typically to install codec packages, but Maybe that is wrong in that case?

And - any experience how fast the CDNG editing is in Vegas? In Terms of timeline and preview Performance?

No problem what so ever. I have been using this codec for a few yrs already. I never had any thing unusual that cause Vegas performance . Both of my computers has no issues what so ever. I got full frame rate best full in play back on my system. As I have said it many times before. I do not resize any of my photos when imported into vegas.

Just want to add. Tiff and raw files play back performance is best/full frame rate on 4K project settings. This is on i74930K 6 cores system and r9 290x card.

Last changed by BruceUSA on 9/10/2018, 7:29 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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MSI MEG Z890 ACE Gaming Wifi 7 10G Super Lan, thunderbolt 4                                

48GB DDR5 -8200mhz Overclocked @8800mhz                  

Crucial T705 nvme .M2 2TB Gen 5  OS. 4TB  gen 4 storage                    

RTX 5080 16GB  Overclocked 3.1ghz, Memory Bandwidth increased from 960 GB/s to 1152 GB/s                                                            

Custom built hard tube watercooling.                            

MSI PSU 1250W, Windows 11 Pro

 

Dawn32 wrote on 9/12/2018, 4:20 PM

Thank you everyone for your input.

I checked the aforementioned free Adobe Raw codec with Vegas Pro 15 and Raw CinemaDNG footage. Unfortunately, it is a total "turn-based strategy in real time", i.e. it's so extremely slow, that it falls far behind acceptable for editing. The performance is something like 1 frame per several seconds or so, just playing the footage without any editing or FX. Meanwhile, Resolve works just fine with the same Raw CinemaDNG footage on the same computer without issues, without any extra codec to be installed.

I think, native support of that format is getting more and more important for any NLE. It would be nice to add that in Vegas Pro too.

Also, I wonder why the ProRes 422 HQ 4K footage is playing perfectly smooth full-screen on my PC using a regular video player (MPC, VLC etc.), while in Vegas Pro the same footage has some stumbling / lower fps during playback with no FX and no editing?

Here is the link to this footage:

https://downloads.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/originals/Balloons.zip

 

 

NickHope wrote on 9/12/2018, 10:58 PM
...Also, I wonder why the ProRes 422 HQ 4K footage is playing perfectly smooth full-screen on my PC using a regular video player (MPC, VLC etc.), while in Vegas Pro the same footage has some stumbling / lower fps during playback with no FX and no editing?

Here is the link to this footage:

https://downloads.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/originals/Balloons.zip

I get smooth 23.976fps playback with your clip in VP15 build 387 at Best (Full) with GPU acceleration off. It plays back with mxhevcplug.dll. My system specs are in my profile.

Former user wrote on 9/13/2018, 6:29 AM

I could only get it to play at Preview Full (so using proxies) with my laptop and PC.  I needed to update to latest VLC version 3.0.4 to get excellent playback with VLC on PC, not so excellent on laptop, but watchable, missed frames.  I'd say it depends to some extent on your machine specs.  Odd though that VLC can play it aok on my PC and VP can only do so with aid of proxies. My playback with VP16 was less than half fps at Best Full.

So, what are your PC specs Dawn32?

Dawn32 wrote on 9/13/2018, 1:56 PM

Vegas Pro 15 current build 384 Steam, Win 10, Intel Core i7-6700HQ 2.60 GHz, 16 Gb Ram, Nvidia GTX 1070 8Gb Video Ram, UHD 4K IPS display, 512 Gb SSD.

Former user wrote on 9/13/2018, 2:03 PM

Thanks @Dawn32 , It must be the very high data rate, plus 4 K, that slows VP. More than a 4 core cpu is probably needed, Nicks specs just says Intel, Maybe more than 4 core.

 

Dawn32 wrote on 9/13/2018, 2:12 PM
...Also, I wonder why the ProRes 422 HQ 4K footage is playing perfectly smooth full-screen on my PC using a regular video player (MPC, VLC etc.), while in Vegas Pro the same footage has some stumbling / lower fps during playback with no FX and no editing?

Here is the link to this footage:

https://downloads.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/originals/Balloons.zip

I get smooth 23.976fps playback with your clip in VP15 build 387 at Best (Full) with GPU acceleration off. It plays back with mxhevcplug.dll. My system specs are in my profile.


I tried GPU acceleration on and off, it didn't noticeably affect the playback in Vegas Pro 15 Steam build 384 (which is current for Steam) in my case. Maybe it's a Steam thing, maybe it's a build thing?

Dawn32 wrote on 9/13/2018, 2:16 PM

Thanks @Dawn32 , It must be the very high data rate, plus 4 K, that slows VP. More than a 4 core cpu is probably needed, Nicks specs just says Intel, Maybe more than 4 core.

 


Well, MPC and VLC both manage to play the same footage 4K-UHD full screen perfectly smooth without any problems on my PC, so there's enough processing power for that. So that's more likely a software issue.

Also, this PC handles modern next-gen graphics games on High and Ultra settings in UHD-4K very well, which is a much tougher task than just a video 4K playback, imo.

 

NickHope wrote on 9/13/2018, 10:50 PM

Thanks @Dawn32 , It must be the very high data rate, plus 4 K, that slows VP. More than a 4 core cpu is probably needed, Nicks specs just says Intel, Maybe more than 4 core.

Sorry, the info in my profile must have got corrupted at some point. I have an 8-core Intel i7-5960X overclocked to 4.3GHz. 4 years old now but it has served me very well indeed.

Tips for smooth playback.

Former user wrote on 9/14/2018, 5:28 AM

Yes, I still think its all about the cores in VP with say 4K. @Dawn32 I do know that in the past people have/would say that VP is not a media player in response to this slower playback than say a media player that has to only do one thing very well, as against an NLE, which has to do many things.

Maybe VP can in the future be better optimised for better playback also.

Anyway, maybe instead of looking for CinemaDng native support in VP we should be looking for the new Blackmagic Raw Codec support in the future, announced today.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/nl/media/release/20180914-01