@Niz ffmpeg based util in my signature VFR2CFR converts to x264 but not hevc, give it a try if that will do. Key ‘C’ toggles the various Chroma options. Also using ffmpeg to Prores here.

”I have an RTX 3070, so 4:4:4 decode/encode is supported by the GPU for H.265” I thought that 444 h.264 encode, was limited to 8 bit for nvenc.

@wwaag's HOS Import tools are worth looking at also.

”I know h.264 4:4:4 works, but I am really hoping to get the bitrate and quality savings of h.265 into my work flow.”

It depends on your data rates. If you are using 70 Mbps and below then you will see savings. From testing I did, UHD, there are extremely small savings, if any, above 100 Mbps

Sorry for the late replay @JN- .

I have been all over the place learning about codecs and experimenting. Life has also been quite interesting lately. Your reply did get me thing on somethings though, and started me down a couple bunny trials.

I have some older videos in my backlog that are only 4:2:0 8-bit, and newer videos that are 4:4:4 8-bit, and 4:4:4 10-bit. I don't think I mentioned this before, but I'm trying to establish a workflow. Exploring the options between, what gives me the best quality, and what is reasonably doable with the hardware/software available to me at this time.

"ffmpeg based util in my signature VFR2CFR converts to x264 but not hevc, give it a try if that will do."

Thank you for the offer of using VFR2CFR. When it comes to converting videos post-recording, but pre-editing, I'm fine with Handbrake CLI or FFMpeg. I actually prefer using those command line options, because then I can script them out and have it run automatically over night. At least that will be the end goal once I have fully established my new work flow. My day job is in I.T. so making CMD/Powershell scripts is a skill that I like to practice.

"Also using ffmpeg to Prores here."

I have since tried ProRes, UTVideo, DNxHD, H.264, H.264 -g 1, H.265, H.265 -g 1 and a few other options. Along with all kinds of color sub sampling options. The -g 1 options is an FFMpeg options to set GOP length. This is their recommendation for setting H.264 and H.265 with the intention of using all I-Frames to make video editing easier for an NLE.

Hopefully the results I got below will help another person when making their choice.

ProRes - Only does 10-Bit, not a deal breaker. Files are big since it is an intermediate format. Uses CPU for decoding. Performance was okay if you are only doing 1 or 2 camera angles in Multi-Cam edit mode.

UTVideo - Only does 8-Bit. Files are about the same as ProRes as it is an intermediate format that is "lossless". I think it is mathematically lossless. Very flexible for resolution and frame rate options. Uses CPU for decoding. Got very good performance out of this. It seems to use multi-threading a bit better then ProRes. Though, there was a multi cam project that I was working on, and some times the video for some of the angles would get messed up and cause VP 18 to crash.

DNxHD - I didn't like this one at all. It has very strict settings for resolution, frame rate, and bit rate. The documentation it is terrible for FFMpeg, and if you don't get those settings right then the encode fails. Since the resolution settings are so limited, I couldn't get the performance needed for the multi-cam project. Dropped this one like a hot potato.

H.264 - Works if you have 1 video. If I remember correctly, anything above 4:2:0 stops using the GPU for decoding, so the performance tanks.

H.264 -g 1 - This "works" but VP 18 will switch over to CPU for decoding. So the performance isn't so good.

H.265 - Gave errors for anything above 4:2:0 when trying to import.

H.265 -g 1 - This "works" but VP 18 will switch over to CPU for decoding. So the performance isn't so good and is way worse then H.264 -g 1 for performance. It also has the same problem of giving an error for anything above 4:2:0 when importing.

As of Version 18.0 (Build 527) there was a message before updating that said "HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 decoding with supported hardware" in the patch notes. This suggest HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 was not supported before. Two issues here.

1. I really wish they would list what the support for their codecs more then "It totally supports HEVC" on the site. Magix documentation is terrible at best, but mostly non-existant from what I can see.

2. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but it still doesn't work. I can import HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 now, but the performance is terrible at 1920x1080 60fps, looks like a slide show. Task manager shows hardly any CPU usage, next to now 3D engine usage on the GPU, and 0% usage for Video Decode on the GPU. I have checked the GPU related options in VP 18 about ten times now. I know they are correct. And that was only one video on a dedicated NVMe SSD.

"I thought that 444 was limited to 8 bit for nvenc."

From Nvidia just about every card on Turing or Ampere supports decoding 4:4:4 on 8-bit, 10-bit, and 12-bit H.265(HEVC). You can check that out here on Nvidia's site, and click Decode, then find the GPU.

Nvidia supported decode/encode - https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new

"@wwaag's HOS Import tools are worth looking at also."

For what I need, the proxy tool, they want money. Understandably so, they should be compensated for their work. However, I have already spent more then enough on a hobby. Not looking to spend more at this time. If this was making me money, I would consider it as it would pay for it self. I have seen all over the forms people praising HOS.

"It depends on your data rates. If you are using 70 Mbps and below then you will see savings. From testing I did, UHD, there are extremely small savings, if any, above 100 Mbps"

Most of the recording are done using StreamFX in OBS Studio. Nvenc H265 in CQP 10. So the files end up being between 25MBps to 50MBps and look pretty good to me. Going from that to a something like ProRes takes a 1.5GB file to like 32GB file, just as an example. Huge difference in space.

--Other thoughts--

I haven't tried MagicYUV codec yet. Though they only have the older version for free.

8-Bit or 10-Bit I don't really care about. What I really want is the 4:4:4 in editing. I don't have any 10-bit monitors at my computer. I just wanted a format that would let me edit in 4:4:4 and I was fine going to 10-bit if that is what was required.

--Things I have learned and things I'm venting to the void about--

Intermediate codecs are huge.

Intermediate codecs are CPU bound.

Trying to get codecs to work in magix VP is kinda a pain, especially if it needs quicktime like DNxHD.

I really don't like the way VP organizes codecs, its bothersome to try and find them when you install a new one because it's always listed as an option under another native VP supported codec.

VP 18 has multi-cam support, but it doesn't work very well.

VP 18 needs better more detailed documentation for what codecs and containers they support.

At any rate. My journey isn't done yet to find that balance of performance, space savings, and work flow time management.

However I wanted to at least acknowledge @JN- that you took the time to reply to my post. And, that it did get me thinking about other options. Thank you.

@Niz 

“I thought that 444 was limited to 8 bit for nvenc."

“From Nvidia just about every card on Turing or Ampere supports decoding 4:4:4 on 8-bit, 10-bit, and 12-bit H.265(HEVC). You can check that out here on Nvidia's site, and click Decode, then find the GPU.”

I wasn’t specific enough with my previous post, I was referring to the h.264 encode limitations. I have updated my previous post to this. “I thought that 444 h.264 encode, was limited to 8 bit for nvenc."

My ffmpeg based util VFR2CFR only outputs x264.

@Niz if you could snip out a short 15-30 sec sample clip and put it on a cloud drive I'd be happy to give it a shot with ffmpeg myself. And maybe a Magix or other developer might notice it too.

I snipped a 30 clip out of the middle of a longer clip just the other day with this command line in a script:

ffmpeg -ss 00:00:45 -i %infile% -to 00:00:30 -c:v copy -c:a copy %outfile%

@JN- Ah. Unfortunately Nvidia doesn't list their H.264 options very well. I have about 300 lines in notepad++ of settings of failed and working encodes. So I don't remember everything that I have tried. But, I think you are right. There is some kind of limitations with nvenc for h.264. I think they put more time into make sure H.265 would be compatible with the full codec as a whole.

@Howard-Vigorita In standard bad post fashion, I have complained about multiple things. It would be a good help to me to have clarification on what issue you are wanting to look at.

1. Issues with VP 18 when it comes to importing HEVC/H.265 at 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 chroma. (Please note that it technically imports 4:2:2 now, however I still have performance issues) <--- This is what the post was originally about.

2. Disregarding chroma, performance issues in multi-cam edit mode.I was able to decent performance using UTVideo codec at 640x360 resolution. But still not as good as I was hoping. I was only able to get 4 "angles" out of the 7 that I wanted to get loaded.

I'm guessing from the ffmpeg command that you posted, you just want a small copy of the source video as it is?

Thanks to both of you in advance for you time and consideration.