New Apple MacPro announcement

Rob Franks wrote on 1/5/2014, 8:09 AM

"I'd posit that a typical car is probably 99% NOT computer and 1% computer, while a typical "smart phone" is 99% computer and 1% NOT computer."

Well I won't agree with all of that statement. A car is 99% NOT computer (in the head) right up until it doesn't start one morning. Then one of the first things we do is plug our code reader into the computer.

Aside from that a smartphone IS mostly computer, so do you refer to yours as a "pocket computer" or a phone?

Barry W. Hull wrote on 1/5/2014, 12:28 PM

My fire breathing '71 Plymouth Road Runner is 100% car, no computer needed. It cranks right up, most of the time.

Chienworks wrote on 1/5/2014, 2:44 PM

"Then one of the first things we do is plug our code reader into the computer."

Which is still about 1% of the car or less. If you had to replace the entire computer system, almost everything you didn't replace still accounts for, well, almost the entire car.

As it happens, i call my Motorola RAZR-M a "phone", mostly out of habit. I suspect though that my use of it as a phone probably comprises less than 1/1000th of my total use of it. Most likely the reason i still call it a "phone" is because it's the one thing it does that none of my other devices do, while everything else i do with it i also do with any number of other gadgets.

AnthonyTower wrote on 1/5/2014, 3:38 PM

John Cline wrote:

"...Even basic automobiles have at least 30 microprocessors and some luxury cars have as many as 100, yet I can not run my choice of software on them. However, this is about to change with an upcoming firmware upgrade to the Tesla S, it currently runs a custom Linux OS and they are about to add the ability to run native Android apps."

'Don't want to brew up more sh*t but for the record, all cars use microcontrollers not microprocessors and therefore do not require an operating system.

The Teslas run Linux only for the instrument display panels on a real CPU yes, but all the rest of the car uses microcontrollers that are programmed directly in standard C.

Cheers

GeeBax wrote on 1/5/2014, 3:59 PM

[I]"but all the rest of the car uses microcontrollers that are programmed directly in standard C."[/i]

Real men use Assembler.

AnthonyTower wrote on 1/5/2014, 4:23 PM

"Real men use Assembler"

Good one.....and to that I might add, especially if the microcontroller has very few instructions like the Microchip series has.

I could also add that smartphones and tablets don't use microcontrollers but full blown microprocessors running full blown operating systems...unlike the microcontrollers that make cars go...

Android OS is really just using a modified Linux kernel and iOS is really just a 'light version' of MacOS with whom it shares the same Darwin framework.

'Just my two cents.

Cheers

Rob Franks wrote on 1/5/2014, 6:45 PM

"Which is still about 1% of the car or less. If you had to replace the entire computer system, almost everything you didn't replace still accounts for, well, almost the entire car."

So now we're talking about volume? You mean if 50% of the car was computer then GM would be a "computer company"?

Do you really want to go further with this?

john_dennis wrote on 1/5/2014, 7:05 PM

"[I]Do you really want to go further with this?[/I]"

I think this thread ran its course some time ago.

Chienworks wrote on 1/5/2014, 8:49 PM

"You mean if 50% of the car was computer"

Now you're just being silly. It's not 50%, and it's not going to be. The computer in a car is there for the dedicated purpose of helping to control the car and help it perform as a CAR. The difference between less than 1% on one hand and 99% or more on the other is not just quantitative 'volume', it's a qualitative difference. I know you're pretending not to see that.

One of my desktop PCs has a voice modem in it. It can make and receive phone calls. Is it a phone? In some sense, i suppose it is, but only because as a computer it's been also given the necessary hardware and software to perform that function. No one who looks at it would ever call it a phone, even if they saw me using it as such. A modern 'smart' phone is the same way. What colors that perception is that it still occupies the same space in your communication needs and your pocket that prior 'phone' devices have held previously. Somewhere around the couple of years preceding the iPhone, and culminating with the iPhone, that device that was a phone was discontinued and we started buying tiny pocket-sized computers that also had the necessary hardware and software to act as a phone. It's a qualitative change. We still call it a phone because it's still the thing you use for what you had used your previous phones for.

Rob Franks wrote on 1/5/2014, 9:47 PM

"Now you're just being silly. It's not 50%, and it's not going to be. The computer in a car is there for the dedicated purpose of helping to control the car and help it perform as a CAR. The difference between less than 1% on one hand and 99% or more on the other is not just quantitative 'volume', it's a qualitative difference. I know you're pretending not to see that."

Clearly you do want to continue... Okay.

The computers (usually 2 of them, the PCM and the BCM) don't "help" the car. They pretty much ARE the car. Just about everything on a late model car is controlled by those computers. A/C... lights... traction control, ABS, stability control, timing, mixture, door monitoring, dash gauges, transmission learning/shifting, security detail ... you name it. It's all done through that "1%" you keep speaking about. This "1%" is about the only 1% that is connected to just about every circuit in your vehicle. It's the only 1% which spreads out through your vehicle literally from bumper to bumper like a mass of spaghetti with MANY meters of wire. That "1%" is one few things in your car that NEVER turns completely off or shuts down. It's ALWAYS on and ALWAYS monitoring. You can't even start your car until the computer's security detail has been satisfied.

But hey... it's only 1% of the car.

PeterWright wrote on 1/6/2014, 1:26 AM

To the extent that this thread had degenerated into what something is or is not called rather than anything important, I think its time to take a deep breath and walk on.

It originally contained some interesting information, but not any more ...

DiDequ wrote on 1/6/2014, 9:54 AM

PeterWright wrote
"It originally contained some interesting information, but not any more ..."

True.

Nobody here considered the hackintosh option : you pay for a Pc, as powerfull as you need, choosing components OSX will use "out of the box" , you buy OsX (MLion costs 17€ on the apple store)
Installation is not more difficult than on a real Mac. THIS IS LEGAL.

You upgrade it (free) to the latest Maverick OS.

I can tell you hackintosh is easier to install month after month (I started with 10.3)
Today, you can install Maverick on ANY pc. But it might be difficult.
Knowing linux will help you as terminal commands are very similar.

You will know how OSX works better than many Apple users who just want a machine that works : you will also be able to repair any Aplle Osx machine that is down.

This being written I understand this is the kind of knowledge you do no not want to have
You might just want a running Apple computer. Fine : the apple store is for you.

Many of you said you enjoyed learning every day something new ! me too : I enjoy this forum because I learn many things concerning Vegas, video, and other subjects.

Didier.

OldSmoke wrote on 1/6/2014, 11:51 AM

Love this thread! Better then " Desperate Housewives"

Anyhow, please don't compare a car with what is on your desk! While a car and many other devices, including my washing machine, have computers inside, non of it is a "Personal Computer". The car one day might go that direction although I rather believe that the display in our cars will eventually merrily be a "monitor" connected via Wifi our other means of wireless communication, to our smart phones. Why would I need a navigation system if google maps does exactly that; some cars already have this feature.
Again, while the conversation about the car being a computer or not, which it is not but it has a computer in it, you won't put it on your desk and run Vegas on it. A MAC is as much a PC (Personal Computer) as is a Windows or other other box with an OS on it.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/6/2014, 12:18 PM

> Posted by: DiDequ "Nobody here considered the hackintosh option : you pay for a Pc, as powerfull as you need, choosing components OSX will use "out of the box" , you buy OsX (MLion costs 17€ on the apple store) Installation is not more difficult than on a real Mac. THIS IS LEGAL."

Hmmm... why do i feel another heated debate coming on? ;-)

Actually, if you read the End User License Agreement for Mac OS X it clearly states:

"I. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any "

I appreciate your enthusiasm for wanting to build a Hackintosh but I'm pretty sure it's definitely not legal. Of course, adding commercial music to video without securing a sync license from the publisher is also illegal so everyone here is already going to jail anyway so why not? lol :-D

You can read about it here: Are Hackintosh Computers Legal?

~jr

ddm wrote on 1/6/2014, 1:19 PM

....Nobody here considered the hackintosh option

I have two fully functioning hackintoshes, although both also have Windows boot drives in them as well. I built my first one for fun since I had the exact components that a lifehacker article had recommended a few years ago. I own an old MacPro that I bought for the sake of compatibility when delivering various projects. (at a whopping 2700 dollars at the time with no minitor). When Apple and the software industry moved away from the PPC architecture, I had what I've considered to be a very stylish boat anchor. I rarely ever needed the Mac but I did learn lots about it and now I routinely help out my mac friends with their various computer issues, oddly enough, their problems are very similar to PC people's problems. As far as hackintoshes go, I have been pleasantly surprised at how well they work.

As far as legality goes... I think it's quite a stretch to say that violating an EULA is illegal, as in punishable by law, Johnnys example of adding music to a video is a fine example.

drmathprog wrote on 1/6/2014, 1:46 PM

This may not be the final word on the issue, but according to this court, violating EULA is:
a) illegal, and
b) a civil offense rather than a criminal offense.

http://www.techspot.com/news/48161-violating-a-terms-of-service-agreement-is-not-criminal-federal-court-says.html

(sorry, I don't know how to insert a link)

GeeBax wrote on 1/6/2014, 2:48 PM

[I]"Why would I need a navigation system if Google maps does exactly that; some cars already have this feature."[/I]

Fine if you can receive the internet in the car. I live in rural Australia and the existing maps on navigation systems are very inaccurate. As for receiving internet out here, not likely to happen.

OldSmoke wrote on 1/6/2014, 4:04 PM

GeeBax

http://www8.garmin.com/apps/ and that is not limited to iPhone and doesn't require Internet either.

Rob Franks wrote on 1/6/2014, 5:40 PM

"While a car and many other devices, including my washing machine, have computers inside, non of it is a "Personal Computer""

Funny you should say that... just today the exec vice pres of Chevrolet mentioned most of their 2015 cars will be LTE enabled through At&T and that Chev is opening up its first app store.

"GM reveals first LTE-enabled cars with AT&T service, announces Chevrolet App Shop"
[url=http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/gm-reveals-first-lte-enabled-cars-att-service-announces-chevrolet-app-shop/2014-01-06]

Rob Franks wrote on 1/6/2014, 5:45 PM

"I routinely help out my mac friends with their various computer issues"
No!
Say it isn't so!
Mac users don't have computer issues.... do they!?!?

Sorry jr.
It was there and I just had to do it :)

Guy S. wrote on 1/6/2014, 8:04 PM

"Mac users don't have computer issues.... do they!?!?"

I sure did, it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to open the DVD tray on our Mac Pro – and I had to RTFM to figure it out! To be fair the issue was less with the computer itself than the loose nut on the keyboard...

GeeBax wrote on 1/6/2014, 11:34 PM

OldSmoke, take a look at that site, do you see a button for Australia? No, they don't do one, even on the Australian Garmin site.

DiDequ wrote on 1/7/2014, 3:17 AM

@ JohnnyRoy "Actually, if you read the End User License Agreement for Mac OS X it clearly states:
"I. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.""

You are right, but in France and Germany, this Eula is not legal, because our laws state a license agreement is valid only if it was visible, and agreed to by the buyer, prior to purchase.

I was able to buy OsX, (French forums explain doing this makes a legal Osx Installation) - and once installing it, did not even read that statement. When buying Vegas pro, I did not either read the licence terms, I just agreed - it was expensive enough...
Today I know I can buy something that does not belong to me. I shall be careful in the future.

Back to Osx :
The sad thing is OSX is an evolutionary modification of the FreeBSD kernel. It's easy for Apple to use all the software written using free licences, make cosmetic changes, and sell it. This is definetly legal. But probably unethical !

Differences between Linux and OsX ? very few.

I do not add commercial music to my commercial videos : my wife composes them for me, and this is 100% legal.
Of course I do use some commercial musics for family videos. But this is considered legal in France.

I do not want to build a hackintosh, I simply use Osx on my Pc from time to time mainly to check a webpage displays correctly under Safari... My 1st OS is Linux. Second is Windows. Third Osx.

Didier.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/7/2014, 7:30 AM

> Reply by: Rob Franks "GM reveals first LTE-enabled cars with AT&T service, announces Chevrolet App Shop"

What were they thinking? Why on earth would I want apps for my car when I already have apps on my smart phone that's in my car with me? What I want is for my car to interface with my smart phone. I don't want my car to be a separate ecosystem all on it's own. GM doesn't get it. I'm sure AT&T is happy because now they can sell you yet another data plan to get the same Internet that you already pay for on your other data plan. This is madness!!!

> Reply by: Rob Franks "Sorry jr. It was there and I just had to do it :) "

Apology accepted. Sometimes I can't resist the urge either. ;-)

> Posted by: DiDequ "You are right, but in France and Germany, this Eula is not legal, because our laws state a license agreement is valid only if it was visible, and agreed to by the buyer, prior to purchase. "

Here's the problem with that argument. All Apple software is delivered via the App Store now. When you sign up for the App Store and create your Apple ID, you must agree to the EULA prior to purchasing anything. I believe that makes the EULA legally binding in France and Germany and it clearly states:

"a. Scope of License: This license granted to you for the Licensed Application by Licensor is limited to a nontransferable license to use the Licensed Application on any "

So while you may be able to build a Hackintosh with an old OS X because of a country specific loop hole in purchasing OS X on a DVD, once you upgrade to Mountain Lion or Mavericks, or install any apps, you must agree to the App Store EULA which you cannot do because your hackintosh is not an "Apple-branded" device. So at that point it's illegal.

> Posted by: DiDequ "Differences between Linux and OsX ? very few... My 1st OS is Linux."

Yea, isn't that great! :) My 1st OS was Linux too. I've been using Linux since 1995 when you had to compile your own kernel to add your hardware support (I was using Slackware back then). I abandoned Windows in favor of Linux several years ago. The problem with Linux is that there isn't much commercial software for it and nothing installs easily. So I actually didn't switch from Windows to Mac, I switched from Windows to Linux to Mac and with Mac OS X I get the best of Unix stability with the ease of use of Apple software. It's a win-win scenario.

~jr