Poll for Vegas Users

SonyMLogan wrote on 5/12/2004, 6:30 AM
Hello!

I have a question for you video editors out there:

What improvements (if any) would you like to see in how vegas handles audio?

Some ideas are:

No improvements: too much audio for me right now anyway!

Ability to capture 4 channels of audio (from VIDCAP)

Broadcast wave import/export

OMF/AAF Support

Import Acid sessions.

Audio Velocity Envelopes (So audio tracks with video velocity envelopes)

Improved support for 5.1/7.1 audio in video/film productions.

Other ideas?

---

Your input is greatly appreciated!

Matt Logan (Engineer, Vegas)

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/12/2004, 6:47 AM
Broadcast wave import/export would be nice!

J--
daryl wrote on 5/12/2004, 6:52 AM
It is great as is, the velocity envelope sounds like a good idea.
donp wrote on 5/12/2004, 7:02 AM
I agree, everything you listed would be a plus, very useful.
JJKizak wrote on 5/12/2004, 7:07 AM
The 4 channel capture would be nice and the 7.1 but I am in awe of the audio as it is now. I would like to see maybe some kind of adjustable normalization as a menu that states "automatically prevent clipping while maintaining best possible dynamic range of all clips or of selected clips", stuff like that so I don't have to have a degree in electronic engineering to manipulate the levels. This would be for non-pro's playing around with 5.1 or 7.1.

JJK
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/12/2004, 7:21 AM
Matt,
I'd like more/better hardware/HUI support as we've talked about in the past.
Broadcast wave, AAF, OMF, VSO(velocity audio) a better implementation of plugs, specifically considering the Noise Reduction plug so the workflow is less kludgy on that.
4 channel cap is a good marketing bullet, but I'm opposed to it in general only because it drags the quality of the audio down and at that point people blame Vegas instead of the crappy way they recorded their audio.
Some analysis tools would be helpful ie; spectrum analyzer, would love to see some method, if possible of cleaner waveforms when zoomed in deeply, would love to see some sub-bass management tools available ala surround sound or Dies Bassum kind of thing as part of the LFE.
inserted filters for the LFE so that even the guy doing Creative Labs as his surround system would be able to hear a reasonable representation of a real mix.
Howabout an AC3 decode simulator that would allow us to hear more or less, what the AC3 compression is going to do to the audio. I realize a realtime encode/decode is difficult and unlikely, but what about a simulator with various presets related to how we're each processing AC3? Something like the Preview in Player function but as a sim?
I'm not into the ACID session import thing, sounds like a Jack Sayre nightmare. But some folks might like it.
Howabout direct VST support? More optimized verbs, even MORE optimized input monitoring. (Damn, it's pretty good now, til you pile on a couple WAVES plugs)
Finer pitch control? Ability to mark the timeline for tempo maps without having to keep going back to project properties to do it?
Drag/drop from Forge ala Photoshop/Indesign?
Beatmapper-like cadence sniffer that reads the transient/beat/tempo of audio and creates auto markers/regions for cutting?
Just a few ideas that come to mind.
It's hard improving the crown jewel of the biz...you know? With the Mackie support, I'm all over this sucker. I love the new audio tools.
spacesounds wrote on 5/12/2004, 7:23 AM
Great question! Since I came to know Vegas by way of Acid, and also since I'm primarily a composer, and also since Vegas5 is much more tightly integrated with Acid, what would be truly awesome is a scoring wizard/calculator. It would work like this:

FIrst, the "scoring module" would perform an overall scene analysis, based on the number of events, cuts, transitions, etc., over a given period of time. Then, the "scoring module" would come back with recommendations for tempo, time signature(s), key changes, etc. The "scoring module" could even shamelessly plug Acid loop libraries, like recommending a hip-hop groove versus an ambient pad from one of the latest libraries, or perhaps a juxtaposition utilizing an entirely opposite musical form (one of the best examples of juxtaposing music with picture was in the movie Platoon, where Oliver Stone used Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings against the carnage of war - extremely effective and unforgettable!).

Of course, such a module would have to assume at least a basic knowledge of the elements of music, but you get the idea. I would pay money for this feature, as it would make my production workflow exponentially more efficient. Importing Acid sessions would certainly be a good start, but this would take it to the next level!

If this feature already exists in Acid (or in Vegas, for that matter), please let me know!
farss wrote on 5/12/2004, 7:54 AM
How about some tools aimed at audio for videographers?
In general most video guys do a pretty poor job on the audio side of things and all of the great audio tools that are in Vegas seem mainly aimed at the audio geeks.

1) Better (intelligent?) noise gate with look ahead and low-high shelf on gate input.
2) Control of FXs by envelopes, might get messy though but would open the way for automation of things like EQ. Maybe that's there already and I haven't found it.
3) Link audio to video FXs, that'd have to open up some interesting possibilities.
4) I'd agree with SPOT on NR, doesn't worry me as I send it out to SF but it's one tool that a lot of us video guys should be using a lot more and probably would if it was easier to do in Vegas.
5) Support for audio recorders that have TC tracks.
roger_74 wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:13 AM
Control of FXs by envelopes was introduced in V4.
roger_74 wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:18 AM
Whatever you do, don't "dumb it down" for videographers, we're much better off learning the right way to do stuff.

Something I'd love to see is a proper Dolby Surround stereo downmix mode, where you can hear the surround channels out of phase. Useful if you're doing work on a 2-channel laptop.
hugoharris wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:28 AM
If MIDI and VST effects/VSTi support was implemented, I could drop Cubase SX for good and integrate production into one app. No other video application has MIDI or VST support (as far as I know). For small "one-man shows" doing sound for picture with VSTi (like Kontakt, Atmosphere, Garritan Personal Orchestra, etc...), I think there would be serious demand. I also think a lot of audio people (read: huge user base) that are looking to move into video would be attracted to Vegas..

Kevin.
johnmeyer wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:30 AM
I would like event fX, like we have for video. Very often I want to get rid of a glitch (pop or cough), and I have to open the event in SoundForge. This is time consuming, confusing, and cumbursome. In addition, I would like to be able to interactively use the plugins, just the way I do in Sound Forge. In Sound Forge, I can listen to the audio I have selected, and move the controls in each plugin back and forth and immediately hear the results. By contrast, within Vegas itself, I have to make a change, and then return to the timeline before I can hear a result.

I would like the ability to "recover" the synced audio from a video event that has been "separated" from its audio. This has been asked for by many people in this forum, and I think it is one of the things that Excalibur does.

swarrine wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:31 AM
Allow track level events to be clip level events.

For instance track effects and volume/pan controls (add points).
roger_74 wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:35 AM
Maybe the Beatmapper in Acid can be adapted to produce markers in Vegas. That would be cool, I don't know how many people have requested scripts that does things on the beat.
nrmnchan wrote on 5/12/2004, 8:57 AM
I am a recording engineer, and I primarily use Samplitude 2496 when I am working with audio. One feature I missed the most when working with Vegas is the abillity to apply EQ, and other effects, non-distructively at the clip level. There are more than a couple of times when I have segments on the TL that require different EQ's, and spreading them to different audio tracks makes the TL way too complicated. I know I can apply automation curves to EQ, but a full parametric EQ adjustment can involve up to 12 parameters at a time, very messy to say the least.

I know I am spoiled by Sam, but here is my 2 cents.

Norm
zcus wrote on 5/12/2004, 9:14 AM
Forget the audio - it's beyond perfect (except I'd like to see EQ automation).
What I would like to see is FASTER RENDER TIMES! Instead of "Selective Render" - How about "Render in the back ground"???

I estimate that 80%+ of the forum don't care and will never use the network rendering. Who can afford to buy a new computer just for slighty faster renders?

Not complaining - I love Vegas and your dedication to it! Keep up the great work.
Sab wrote on 5/12/2004, 9:28 AM
Audio velocity envelopes would be nice.
cheroxy wrote on 5/12/2004, 9:29 AM
Amen, amen, amen...The only audio addition I really desire is MIDI and VST effects/VSTi support.
Cheroxy
RafalK wrote on 5/12/2004, 9:43 AM
All of the above, especially the audio velocity. I have so many times wished that there was a better/easier way to slow down the audio.
rmack350 wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:00 AM
Matt.

The two that pop out are:
-capturing 4 channels of audio
-Being able to drop a *.acd file onto the timeline

I'm assuming that .acd is the acid project file extension. Here's why this pops out:

Dropping *.acd files AND *.veg files on the timeline is tantamount to nested tracks. In both cases it begins to sound something like OLE objects on the timeline.

Also, in both cases, Vegas should do prerenders of these files in the background and should show a little green prerender bar on the event itself.

This would also be the first time that Vegas would support prerenders on the event level. Currently Vegas does prerenders on the timeline level-which is why the prerenders are so fragile.

Rob Mack
Spot|DSE wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:15 AM
Automated EQ is already there, zcus. Unless you're looking for something that will scan the file and CREATE an auto EQ, and that would be a consumer benefit, but not a pro one.
Audio is far from perfect, and to reiterate my constant mantra.....
"SOUND IS 70% OF WHAT THE AUDIENCE SEES!" There is no reason Vegas can't come up further. Yes, it's ahead of the pack, which means the pack will learn, which means Vegas can't be the hare in this race.

I'm not a fan of AC3 import, only because I see it as mostly a tool for pirates. That alone could make Vegas be a non-choice in many professional situations. It's VERY rare that an AC3 needs to be ripped in a legit environment, IMO
LarryP wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:27 AM
1) A better way to judge "loudness" by using RMS meters with configurable integration and yellow and red zones. For instance set the yellow to begin at -14dbfs.

2) Aids for working at a calibrated 83dba. A separate monitor output (different ports on a sound card) with a calibrated fader which can raise and lower the volume in 1 db steps. 0db on the fader could be something arbitrary like –20dbfs.

More information at Bob Katz’s web site and Dorrough:

http://www.digido.com/portal/pmodule_id=11/pmdmode=fullscreen/pageadder_page_id=59
http://www.dorrough.com/dorrough/

Thanks for asking.

Larry
TheHappyFriar wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:38 AM
import acid sessions, velocity envelopes, more channels (7.1, etc), applying audio FX like you do video FX (no rendering a take)..

thats it for me. :)
rmack350 wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:38 AM
Spot is right on the 4 channel audio question. It's sample rate is low and it tends toward the crappy side. I included it because people ask for it so much.

Rob Mack
JJKizak wrote on 5/12/2004, 10:51 AM
If you were thinking of 4 channel capture, why screw around, go to 8 channel capture for 7.1 and be done with it.

JJK