Problems with 4K preview on a brand new powerfull pc

miroslav-h wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:18 AM

Hi guys,

I use SV Pro13 for editing AVCHD 4K videos from my Panasonic GH4. I have a brand new pc now:

CPU: i7 6800K, GPU: AMD R9 380 4GB, system: Windows 7 pro 64 bit instaled on SSD, video projects on another SSD, RAM 32GB.

When I put on my timeline 4K videos (3840x2160x32) without any color grading I can preview them in best full preview mode very smoothly. But if I do some basic color grading (color corrector, color curves, white balance, black and white) it is almost impossible to watch it and even in best half preview (1920x1080x32) it does not go smooth at all.

When previewing my CPU usage is only around 55-60% and GPU only 25%. I do not understand why it can not go higher and the playback is not better.

Please can you advice if I do something wrong? I think that i7 6800K and R9 380 4GB should be enough to manage preview much better.

Thank you a lot!

Comments

wwjd wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:25 AM

consider any additional plugins to a track can easily double the power usage needed to render the live video playback.  I do my 4K editing in PREVIEW QUARTER size (on a 4K screen) most of the time.  for sharp settings and detailed color, I punch up to BEST HALF and FULL briefly, set it and switch back down.

miroslav-h wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:31 AM

Thank you for response, please what concrete plugins do you mean?

I am suprised that CPU is only on 55-60% and it do not go higher when previewing... What is your CPU and GPU?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:49 AM
CPU: i7 6800K, GPU: AMD R9 380 4GB, system: Windows 7 pro 64 bit instaled on SSD, video projects on another SSD, RAM 32GB.

When I put on my timeline 4K videos (3840x2160x32) without any color grading I can preview them in best full preview mode very smoothly. But if I do some basic color grading (color corrector, color curves, white balance, black and white) it is almost impossible to watch it and even in best half preview (1920x1080x32) it does not go smooth at all.

You are right that Vegas does not utilize your CPU and GPU to its full extend. But that will not help you really. So here some tricks that you could try:

First of all - your processor is a 6 core processor, and it is great that you see a full preview with "best/full". But you should be aware that there has always been the specification that you should have an 8 core processor for 4K. So given that I would try to go back to "preview/full" or "preview/half" instead of "best/full".

A second test could be if you have enabled the GPU acceleration for the preview (options/preferences/preview and enable your AMD card here). The AMD card should help you to have better preview capabilities for color correction and so on, but there will be limits.

Another trick could be to set the project settings back from UHD to 1920x1080 in the project properties.

Another trick could be to try to optimize the allocation of the dynamic ram preview. That has an impact with VP13 and was improved with VP14. But on some machines it may happen that there is an optimal allocation - sometimes found at 16 MB-250 MB. I do not know if that is also the case on your machine, I would test such a clip and try to change the allocation in some steps (so maybe 0, 16, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, 2000...) to see what happens.

 

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

miroslav-h wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:59 AM

Hi Wofgang,

thank you a lot I looked at options and there is writen Windows Graphic Card but not AMD card but I thonk that it is the same (see pic):

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/29/2016, 2:08 PM

Hmm, that is no UHD resolution what would be 3840x2160?

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

wwjd wrote on 11/29/2016, 3:00 PM

Was just saying, that since I have used Vegas, whenever I add plugs that alter the picture - color, effects etc - it takes more processing to image it  at 30 or 60 frames per second over just playing the file strait.  you can also, setup some effects, then jsut bypass them for a bit while playing back for edits.  And there is always SHIFT B

john_dennis wrote on 11/29/2016, 7:25 PM

GPU Acceleration and the card that does the deed is selected on Options / Preferences / Video tab. The amount of RAM used to generate previews is also on that tab.

GregFlowers wrote on 11/29/2016, 9:43 PM

I have the i7 6800K with 32GB ram and a Radeon 390x. I also edit UHD video from the GH4's little brother, the G7. I get full playback with several color correctors or curves, depending on the specific filters. I can bog it down if I add too many but it takes a lot. I found that I needed to set my dynamic RAM to several thousand MB instead of a few hundred MB order to get good timeline playback. Why I don't know. I'm not even building a dynamic RAM preview either. You could use the built in proxy workflow or the new and improved proxy workflow discussed here.  https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/proxy-playback-please-fix--104635/

NickHope wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:33 PM

Have a read of this. I have added a lot to it since first writing it, and there are many suggestions there that might tip the balance between full frame rate preview or not. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-can-i-make-my-video-preview-play-smoothly-in-vegas-pro--104624/

If miroslav-h's monitor resolution is 2560x1440, as suggested by his screen shot, it might be a good idea to set the project resolution to that resolution too.

Kinvermark wrote on 11/29/2016, 10:51 PM

@miroslav-h

Also, looks like you have a decklink board installed.   Check out this thread where megabit appears to have found a serious limitation of Vegas when decklink drivers are present: 

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/what-s-up-with-t-l-playback-speed--104538/

 

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/30/2016, 9:40 AM

I have the i7 6800K with 32GB ram and a Radeon 390x. I also edit UHD video from the GH4's little brother, the G7. I get full playback with several color correctors or curves, depending on the specific filters.

I see the same with my 8core system and a R9 390X.

 

I found that I needed to set my dynamic RAM to several thousand MB instead of a few hundred MB order to get good timeline playback. Why I don't know.

With Vegas Pro 13 or Pro 14? There was a change in VP14 to improve the playback behaviour in terms of fps with an higher allocation of the dynamic ram preview (beyond 500 MB I think). So VP14 behaves here very different compared to VP13.

And - this seems to depend from the specific machine too. My older system had the best preview at 125 MB dynamic ram allocation. My newer system does not care at all. So that should be tested for a specific system, I am not sure if there are general rules (especially for VP13).

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/30/2016, 9:42 AM

If miroslav-h's monitor resolution is 2560x1440, as suggested by his screen shot, it might be a good idea to set the project resolution to that resolution too.

That is an interesting question. My impression was all the time that it is the best to set the project settings to the resolution of the source files. Maybe there is some resizing requirement if the preview is 2560x1440 only, but is that worser then to use the project resolution in line with the footage edited?

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

NickHope wrote on 11/30/2016, 9:53 AM

If miroslav-h's monitor resolution is 2560x1440, as suggested by his screen shot, it might be a good idea to set the project resolution to that resolution too.

That is an interesting question. My impression was all the time that it is the best to set the project settings to the resolution of the source files. Maybe there is some resizing requirement if the preview is 2560x1440 only, but is that worser then to use the project resolution in line with the footage edited?

My GH4 3840x2160 UHD footage plays quicker if I set my project to 1920x1080. 2560x1440 may or may not help. It's worth trying.

Kinvermark wrote on 11/30/2016, 11:47 AM

Mine too.

Have you noticed that if you use 4k project seetings, but preview on 1080p monitor at preview-HALF you get good playback and the preview is still at 1080p?

NickHope wrote on 11/30/2016, 11:35 PM
Have you noticed that if you use 4k project seetings, but preview on 1080p monitor at preview-HALF you get good playback and the preview is still at 1080p?

For simple cutting of my GH4 UHD it's been enough for me to set 1920x1080 project settings and preview at "Preview (full)" But I'll definitely bear a "half" setting in mind when I get some FX on there too.

If you need to judge focus, sharpness etc. at 4K you can still see a portion of the display at 1:1 in the Preview window if you uncheck "Scale video to fit preview window". I wish we could pan around in that window.

wwjd wrote on 12/1/2016, 10:49 AM

With you Nick, on PANNING that window. Sometimes, I'll PAN it around using the track crop thingy

Wolfgang S. wrote on 12/1/2016, 12:52 PM

My GH4 3840x2160 UHD footage plays quicker if I set my project to 1920x1080. 2560x1440 may or may not help. It's worth trying.

Sure, that is why I also recommended that as a possible trick to go back in the preview to HD. But that seems to help because it seems to take out processing power. If it helps due to a limited resolution of a montior - interesting question.

 

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo