ProRes 422 (Atomos Ninja)

max9 wrote on 7/24/2024, 12:15 PM

Hello, I've searched everywhere but couldn't find an answer to my question. I'm shooting with a Canon R6 and Ninja in Clog3. What should be the Color range for this type of files - Limited or Full? Is an 8-bit (Full range) Pixel format sufficient? Thank you!

General
Complete name                            : G:\NINJA_S001_S001_T014.MOV
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   2005.03 (qt )
File size                                : 4.78 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 12 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 310 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Writing library                          : Apple QuickTime
com.atomos.hdr.gamut                     : Rec709
com.atomos.hdr.gamma                     : Rec709
com.atomos.hdr.monitormode               : Native
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Make      : Atomos
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Model     : Ninja
com.apple.proapps.image.{TIFF}.Software : 11.06.01

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : ProRes
Format version                           : Version 0
Format profile                           : 422 LT
Codec ID                                 : apcs
Duration                                 : 2 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 308 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 1.483
Stream size                              : 4.75 GiB (99%)
Writing library                          : atms
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : in24
Duration                                 : 2 min 12 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 2 304 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 18.2 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 2 min 12 s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 12:33:40:13
Time code of last frame                  : 12:35:53:02
Time code, stripped                      : Yes
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-07-20 11:50:24 UTC

Comments

Chief24 wrote on 7/24/2024, 12:44 PM

@max9

I use the Canon R6, shoot CLog3 - Cinema Gamut - 4K (typically 29.970), and here is a sample MediaInfo from a recent shoot:

General
Complete name : Z:\2024 Activities\20240525_Christopher_Zoo\Canon EOS R6\MP4\CHR67799.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (mp42/hvc1/CAEP)
File size : 26.1 GiB
Duration : 21 min 48 s
Overall bit rate : 172 Mb/s
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS
Encoded date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Format Range@L5.1@High
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 21 min 48 s
Bit rate : 170 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.684
Stream size : 25.9 GiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC
Color range : Full
matrix_coefficients_Original : BT.709
Codec configuration box : hvcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Big / Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 21 min 48 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 240 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 21 min 48 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 07:40:55;25
Time code of last frame : 08:02:44;04
Time code, stripped : No
Language : English
Encoded date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-05-25 14:55:56 UTC

If you notice going down in the video section towards the bottom, you can see the "Color Range", which is "Full". Since I do not have a computer with an Intel Processor with Integrated GPU for use with QSV, I actually transcode all my footage to ProRes 422 via Shutter Encoder. Do that with the highly compressed GoPro Cameras (7,9,10, 11, 12 Blacks - all at highest resolution "4K", "5K", or "5.3K" usually at 29.970), but transcode to ProRes 422 LT, and they also have the Color Range as "Full". Then, in the project media tab with the footage I have imported, for all my GoPro footage, and my Canon Cameras (R6, R6 Mk II, R7), I will "right click" to open the context menu, go to the properties of the clip, and change the corresponding value to "Full", and change the camera accordingly for the Gamut you shot (Cinema Gamut - CLog3 for the Canons'). Than you just need to make sure the rest of your project is set accordingly to your desired output destination resolution and frame rate.

If you search the forum, one of the moderators did do a tutorial of how his project settings were set using a BlackMagic camera, but you can easily adapt to any camera. Along with your own testing.

Hope this helps a little.

Mike "The Chief" O'Sullivan

max9 wrote on 7/24/2024, 1:06 PM

Yes, I know that when I shoot with the camera's internal codec, the files come out with a Color range set to Full, but the files from the Ninja lack Color range data. I'm a bit confused about the appropriate parameters to use in Vegas Pro.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/24/2024, 2:04 PM

@max9 If you shoot with log scaling, you need to maintain the range it was designed for. Otherwise the lut won't work right. Clog3 luts are designed for full-range. It's only of significance if Vegas remaps the range when loading the clip. I think it' would safest for you to set your Vegas project to full-range. I'm not sure if Vegas would remap your clip if the project were set to limited range, but I don't think so in this case.

fr0sty wrote on 7/24/2024, 2:52 PM

Full color range for 10 bit log footage, of which ProRes shot in CLog is. I recommend editing in 8 bit (it's faster) then switching to 32 bit full to color. Make sure to set the color space of your media to CLOG in the media properties.

mark-y wrote on 7/24/2024, 7:57 PM

Set your Media Properties to match your footage color space. It doesn't always happen automatically as one expects. That's for starters.

fr0sty wrote on 7/24/2024, 9:14 PM

^This only applies when using 32bit full range ACES mode, not 8 bit mode. It really can't happen automatically if you are passing CLOG into an external recorder, as far as I know, there wouldn't be any way to pass the metadata along that would identify what color profile it was shot in.