Purchased New Version of Vegas, old Project has frames off

Irregular wrote on 11/24/2023, 8:41 PM

I purchased Vegas 21 and when I open a Vegas 17 project file in 21 some of the frames and cuts are off. I've checked 17 to see if the cut was properly done, which it was. However, when loading in the new version some unwanted frames appear around the beginning of my cuts. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the source footage being x265 hevc codec. Or it may be because the footage says it's 23.976 fps with MediaInfo but in Vegas it was interpreted as 25fps. When I change the project settings in Vegas 21 to 23fps it seems to cut where it should properly like in Vegas 17, but it's weird because in Vegas 17 the fps is 25 and it cuts where it should.

I mainly upgraded Vegas so that it would be installed on my local C drive as my other Vegas is on my external drive. This renders third-party extensions and things like happyotterscripts unable to be used. I am afraid if I reinstall my Vegas 17 version that projects will be misaligned and will need to be resynced. That would make me paranoid as I might not be able to tell what specifically may get altered.

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 11/24/2023, 8:46 PM

... and you posted the Mediainfo report for your source media and/or a sample file here on the forum...

RogerS wrote on 11/24/2023, 8:51 PM

Please share the exact MediaInfo for the problem files? Are they variable framerate?

17 and 21 can live side by side without conflicting with each other. However 17 can't open projects saved in 21.

bvideo wrote on 11/25/2023, 12:33 AM

Vegas has bugs around the start and end points of hevc events, depending on the particular video file, version/build, and also on your selections in the Options -> Preferences -> File I/O tab. If you have selected the Enable experimental decoding option in V21, the bug is prominent. However, if you did not select Enable legacy HEVC decoding in your previous Vegas version, you may need to select experimental in your V21 project to match the bugs you may have unknowingly worked around in your original. Or vice versa, sort of. Or you can just rework your frames and cuts in your V21 version, leaving your older project file unchanged.

The legacy HEVC selection in earlier versions has apparently been promoted to the standard HEVC decoder in V21 build 187, with some improvements, while the previous standard (non-legacy) option has been demoted to experimental.

fr0sty wrote on 11/25/2023, 4:14 AM

Pretty sure you have that kinda backwards... experimental is the new decoder that is currently being developed as part of the new video engine, and legacy is the pre-existing one.

Last changed by fr0sty on 11/25/2023, 4:15 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

RogerS wrote on 11/25/2023, 4:31 AM

Experimental is the old so4 one that isn't being developed much. Legacy is now the normal one that continues development.

bvideo wrote on 11/25/2023, 10:26 AM

They are both preexisting, but development seems to have picked up the previous legacy decoder to work on.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-21-update-omits-legacy-hevc-decoding-checkbox--143351/#ca896510

Irregular wrote on 11/25/2023, 12:51 PM

Here's the mediainfo:

 

I'm not sure how this footage got interpreted as 25fps by Vegas when it's 23 variable fps.

Edit: In Vegas 21 it interprets the footage correctly as 23fps.

My Vegas 17 File I/O settings:

 

My Vegas 21 File I/O settings:

 

My other question/concern is that if I reinstall Vegas 17 will projects resync as they are now with the cuts and timing unaffected? Some of my projects contain variable frame rates sources, some of them are hevc, and some of them are also compressed through Handbrake. Handbrake settings here:

 

I'm going to try making a copy of the original Vegas 17 project file, changing the fps from 25 to 23 as it should have been edited in to begin with and load that up in Vegas 21. Update: It's a little bit better but still has noticeable one frame start differences on clips.

 

Appreciate the responses.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 11/25/2023, 2:50 PM

Pretty sure you have that kinda backwards... experimental is the new decoder that is currently being developed as part of the new video engine, and legacy is the pre-existing one.

@fr0sty My understanding from this developer post is that experimental hevc decoding is the one going away if stabilizing it cannot be achieved.

All I know is that on my systems, I got quality analysis shown earlier in that thread which is highly suggestive of a commonality between the old legacy-hevc and the new default with significantly better performance. I don't consider how they did that as important as the favorable results I'm getting with hevc media which I've been shooting exclusively in my 4k cameras for the last 3 years.

fr0sty wrote on 11/25/2023, 2:54 PM

Good catch, looks like bvideo had it right.

Last changed by fr0sty on 11/25/2023, 2:54 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Irregular wrote on 11/25/2023, 8:25 PM

Is the syncing issue also because of variable frame fate or just hevc 265?

Irregular wrote on 11/25/2023, 9:35 PM

Also what happens when you have a project edited in 25fps but the source is in 23fps so you then change the project settings to match 23fps in Vegas? I have resampling disabled. Interpolation?

 

Thank you.