"That along with the fact that the programmers at RG said that Vegas was "too buggy." "

Ant you know this, how?

All I want to say at this stage is that Sony Vegas have or had the potential to be a front runner in the NLE world, simply becasue of it's intuitive easy to understand and excellent user interface, maybe it's all down to poor marketing, they should have thrown more mony at it.

Sony Electronics and SonySoftware aren't even the same company, they can't even work together properly.. there's little or no communication between them at all.. instead of working seamlessly together they each go into thier little corner and work alone.. as for support don't even go there.

I downloaded CS5 yesterday, i've got a steep learning curve ahead, and it frustrates me to have to learn another NLE just to get using plug-ins that are essential to my workflow, but I have to do it for the sake of my business..

All this back and forth between users isn't doing anyone any favours, I simply wanted Sony Vegas to succeed as a serious editing tool as I feel it deserves a place beside PP, FCP as leading editing software. Users should support that.. loosing plug-in support is a big blow.. maybe i've got it wrong.. maybe there just isn't enough of us pro users out there, if so then this is simply down to Sony's own marketing.. Sonic Foundry made a bad choice to sell out to Sony.

"All I want to say at this stage is that Sony Vegas have or had the potential to be a front runner in the NLE world, simply becasue of it's intuitive easy to understand and excellent user interface, maybe it's all down to poor marketing, they should have thrown more mony at it."

What the heck are you whining about?? You seem to be under the impression that Sony had something to do with this??? This has absolutely NOTHING to do with SCS or Vegas. There was a simple lack of interest in RG... and THAT'S why this has happened.... and that's RG's fault.

I downloaded CS5 yesterday, i've got a steep learning curve ahead, and it frustrates me to have to learn another NLE just to get using plug-ins that are essential to my workflow, but I have to do it for the sake of my business.

way to go! if it doesn't cut the mustard move on....

then again, having a business dependent on a plugin is rather putting all your eggs in one basket don't you think?

" "That along with the fact that the programmers at RG said that Vegas was "too buggy." ""

From speaking directly with the one of the technicians at Red Giant Software.

Rob, I'm not saying Sony had something to do with this,

What i'm saying is they have the power to do something about it.. as was implied to me from my last contact with RedGiant, a little pressure from the user community wouldn't hurt. It's almost as if scs don't have any interest to compete with fcp, pp.

Ushere thanks for commenting, my business is not totally depended on one plug-in, I could survive without MBL, but my high end clients would not be getting the same level of production value, and if I wouldn't be reaping the higher paid rewards.

> "You seem to be under the impression that Sony had something to do with this??? This has absolutely NOTHING to do with SCS or Vegas. There was a simple lack of interest in RG... and THAT'S why this has happened.... and that's RG's fault."

Exactly!!! I said it before and I'll say it again... Red Giant has not provided Sony Vegas users with a 64-bit version in THREE YEARS! They should look no further than their own development shop for why it isn't selling to Vegas users. They could have been leading edge with Sony but they chose to be a tag-along with Adobe.

Then on top of all that... they are charging customers more money for the 64-bit version with no new functions!!! I for one, refuse to pay more money to get no additional functionality except 64-bit support. We (VASST) did not charge a penny to add 64-bit support to all of our Vegas plug-ins (nor did Sony). We ate the development cost of providing 64-bit support (and by "we" I mean me personally!). So, IMHO, Red Giant is just taking advantage of the situation as an opportunity to make more money anyway. Let them keep their 2 plug-ins.

Let's really assess the damage here: Red Giant primarily builds plug-ins for After Effects. They have thirty two (32) plug-ins for sale on their web site. Only two (2) worked with Vegas. Do you really think it's worth it for them to keep development skills around for Vegas just to support two plug-ins? I don't. Perhaps if the majority of their plug-ins worked with Vegas and they dropped support you could scream "the sky is falling" but really people... two plug-ins no longer support Vegas. The sky is hardly falling.

On the other side of the coin: Now that Vegas Pro supports OpenFX, effects companies like GenArts, a major special fx provider to the film and broadcast industry, is now providing plug-ins for Vegas Pro. Sapphire boasts over 200 plug-ins for Vegas Pro. Monsters GT has another 50 plug-ins including particle fx. Boris FX just ported BCC7 over to Vegas Pro for another 150+ plug-ins. New versions of Boris Graffiti, FX, & RED are on the way.

So we lost 2 plug-ins from Red Giant and gained 400 from GenArts and Boris FX... I'd say we're 398 plug-ins ahead of the game here folks. The sky is a bright sunny day for Vegas users from where I'm standing. ;-)

~jr

But the sky is falling!!!

Cal, you don't need to learn another editor to use MB,,, use it in AE and then you have another tool to enhance your work which will be much more useful than simply MB

I gave up waiting for Magic Bullet Looks and went with a copy of After Effects. The learning curve was a little steep but there are millions of tutorials out there. The multitude of free looks and vignette tools for AF are just as good as MBL. The capabilities of AF are spectacular and compliment Vegas extremely well. The sky isn't falling for me, no need for Magic Bullet Looks!

winrock, Dennishh - What's the workflow between AE and Vegas? do you just render out your projects in full before working with them in AE? I tend to grade my clips individually on the vegas timeline as they each require different levels of adjustment.. i'm guessing i'd have to render out my project in full with Vegas then split up the footage again in AE?

Thanks for everyone's input in this debate, i'm just looking for a solution to my workflow, I've always enjoyed the workflow in Vegas, but I also enjoy grading in MBL, onwards and upwards.

cal79, I'm not sure if it still does, but AE used to come with a version of Synthetic Aperture.

As far a workflow between AE and Vegas, it starts with a compatible codec like DNxHD. You could do your basic cuts in Vegas, render out, do mastering in AE, come back to Vegas for final edit and audio and final render out (DVD...MP4...).
Cineform is another one supported in both.

Cineform also has a one light capability to set up initial color parameters.

Cal, I render to uncompressed avi and take into AE,, I thought magic bullet in vegas was kind of a pick a look and go type deal... if you are doing individual clips could be a royal pia...

Yeah, Vegas is more and more PIA! That is the whole point. When I look at Adobe's suite, it's sweet... and I wonder what happened to Vegas. I good instance of this is the vegas titler PTT. It sucks in every way a titler shouldn't and it it gets worse with every update. It is as if the makers of sony want us to go to Adobe because of some unseen reason.

This new open fx plugin architecture for Vegas has only made us lose more plugs, yet it was touted that it would bring more plugs. It is just a plain lie. In fact we have less plugs since its appearance and more companies are dropping support all the time. You'd have to be in serious denial not to see these obvious FACTS!

Vegas 11 will not get my money!

I didn't say vegas was a pia, but you certainly are dreamline... plenty of editors out there,, find one that works for ya and move on with it already

Vegas 11 will not get my money!


Rotsa Ruck - don't let the door hit you on the way out....

JohnnyRoy: "Hey, I use MLB all the time for relighting. It is way easier than doing it in Vegas, which means that I purchased MBL and I know how cool it is and I would love to see a 64-bit version. Don't get me wrong. But I'm not adverse to spending money to make my workflow simpler because I make it back by getting more work done faster so I bought MBL for the time savings. But if you have the time and not the money, you can do it all in Vegas. (ok... for the sake of argument, let's say you can create "most" of them In Vegas although I can't think of one that you can't. It just takes more work)"

Maybe this is also one of the reasons why (if their decisions were ever based on the numbers) MBL failed to see the potential in keeping pace with Vegas?

I'm guessing I'm not the only one working on a shoestring who finds most of these effects not that hard to generate with the right chain of color correction and other stock features. If I were working on more lucrative projects and had someone else footing the bill for my toys I wouldn't bat an eyelash on dumping money on convenience tools like these, but I rarely spot one that I can't figure out a way to do myself.

And that's among the reasons I'm still using mainly Vegas.

Suggesting VAAST as an alternative to MBL seems reasonable until you realise that you cannot see the VAAST effects in real time, whereas you can in MBL. The VAAST option requires rendering of the file which I dont consider a useful work flow. Am I missing something?

Will - this - thread- never - die ? Argh....

> "Suggesting VAAST as an alternative to MBL seems reasonable until you realise that you cannot see the VAAST effects in real time, whereas you can in MBL. The VAAST option requires rendering of the file which I dont consider a useful work flow. Am I missing something?"

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The VASST ReelPak's use the built-in Vegas plug-ins which have always been real-time. There is never a need to render to see them and when it does come time to render, they render faster than MLB.

~jr

IMO, MBL is not real time. If you mean that MBL takes a single frame and allows us to see only THAT single frame in a static form then that is real time. That has always been my issue with MBL. Once you apply SONY Fx you can see the video play out and alter the Fx on the fly. Isn't also the case with VASST? In which case VASST would trump MBL.

Grazie

I've always been a huge Reelpak proponent. When I was regularly using MBL years ago but struggling with the rendering times, I found the ReelPaks on the VASST website and rarely used MBL after that. I never understood why their concept never took off more than it did. I still use them on every Vegas project... the "Film-Like," "Champion," Soft Pop" presets... couldn't do without them.

I'm planning on adding FCP to my toolbox in June when the new version comes out. Both Vegas and FCP will be quite useful to me. One of the options that I'll miss most for projects where I won't be using Vegas? The Reelpak presets.