Reversal of MagicYUV rendered results in AWOL Media.

Grazie wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:24 AM

OK, I started this research as part of another Post, which was in itself a CallOut to others if they could replicate my observations when using the Reverse option in the Drop Down Event Menu.

Observation: When "Reversing" a Rendered MagicYUV RGBA the media would go AWOL.

Outcome: Today I've been in touch with the author of MagicYUV, Balázs Oroszi, who has told me this:

The reversing bug affects the MagicYUV Vegas Pro PLUGINS. It happens with VP17 (build 455), VP18 (build 527), VP19 (build 424).

Also this:

As an additional note I couldn't find anything in the plugin SDK with regards to reversing, and my plugin logs show nothing special either. The reversed media simply turns up as empty frame for me.

So, what I had unwittingly stumbled on was a Reversing Bug that needs the specific input from Team-Vegas to assist Balázs Oroszi. Needless to say, MagicYUV is mustard at rendering and produces ALPHA. If I wish to reverse that output then I'd need to reach out to VASST's Video Overlay, which will reverse nicely. The Reverse option in the Menu isn't at fault, rather it's the SDK for reversing that is at issue here.

I hope @VEGASDerek et al can asist Balázs Oroszi to get this to work.

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 11/15/2021, 12:30 PM

@Grazie

Licensed MagicYUV codecs downloaded and installed this morning.

Yes. The video goes into the bit bucket when reversed. I seem to remember this behavior some years ago when I was experimenting with different methods of applying graphics besides nesting the original project. I continued to used the nested projects.

Edit: Remuxed and uploaded video to spare viewers having to listen to obnoxious audio.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 1:24 PM

Hi MagicYUV got the update & exports no prob with alpha,

yep text goes weird with reverse, this is how it is for me

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 1:34 PM

@john_dennis Hi, how did you retain the Alpha of the text, what fx have you inc in the tracks ?

thanks

john_dennis wrote on 11/15/2021, 2:36 PM

@Former user

Since I chose "Legacy 8-bit (Video Levels) in Project Properties, I added a Color Curve and pulled the white text down to respectable levels. It's probably not necessary, but it keeps me out of trouble with the levels police.

Rendering to a codec that includes alpha, like MagicYUV RGBA includes a transparent alpha as long as there is no color on a lower track.

I used Pan/Crop Mask to cut the video below the ProType Titler text field.

Crude, but I'm not currently nominated for an Academy Award in any category.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 3:17 PM

@john_dennis Ah i see, you cut that bit out 👍 so it would have looked like this if you'd added a solid colour below before rendering 👍 I thought maybe you'd got the alpha of the text to go through the media clip below somehow.

Yep i understand the alpha stuff, that why i orig bought the MagicYUV 👍

& yep same here, video editing for 16yrs but still got a huge amount to learn 👴😂👍

Vegas_Pro_Brasil wrote on 11/16/2021, 5:52 AM

@Grazie @john_dennis @Former user @MagicYUV

Changing the container of the MagicYUV rendered file from .AVI to .MOV resolves the error when using the "Reverse" option in VEGAS.

This can be done using Xmedia Recod which is free. It's just a temporary workaround until the bug is fixed.

https://www.xmedia-recode.de/en/download.php

See my screen record

Grazie wrote on 11/16/2021, 6:01 AM

@Vegas_Pro_Brasil - Cheers! Fundamentally my pursuance of this issue started with the Reverse function. Subsequently I was to discover from the Author of MagicYUV that this has been languishing on the desks of Team-Vegas and has to do with the SDK that isn’t revealing a Reversal of “frames” option. Your “fix” is noted. Your comment to wait until this Bug is fixed, is another thing. This has to do with just how much time=money Team-Vegas wishes to allocate to this “corner” issue.

Vegas_Pro_Brasil wrote on 11/16/2021, 6:25 AM

@Grazie The developer of Voukoder has also been commenting for a long time that the SDK of the Vegas has to be updated. Let's see if that will ever happen.

MagicYUV wrote on 11/16/2021, 7:57 AM

Changing the container to MOV works because it is not opened by the plugin (the plugin only reads AVI files), instead it goes through another path. The reversing bug affects only the plugin.

TheRhino wrote on 2/26/2022, 5:54 PM

I just got bit by the V19.458 reverse bug when working with AVIs. Fortunately, it was at the beginning of a small project, so I just started & completed the project in V18. I don't think the AVIs were created using MagicYUV, but they still caused aviplug to fail. After clicking reverse, the media shows that it has been reversed on the timeline, but it disappears from the Preview Windows & only renders as black frames.

Another issue I've had is V19 crashing if I use the Undo (Ctrl+Z) command too many times in a row... This also happened in other recent versions of Vegas, but is more frequent in V19, so I always save before undoing a lot of changes.

jetdv wrote on 2/27/2022, 7:30 AM

@Grazie, there are multiple ways to reverse in VEGAS. If you use the menu option, I believe it then creates a new "subclip" with the "reverse" flag set. What if you do the same thing but use a Velocity Envelope set to -100 instead? Do you see the same issue then?

Grazie wrote on 2/27/2022, 9:05 AM

@Grazie, Do you see the same issue then?

@jetdv - Dunno! You have a go 😉.

john_dennis wrote on 2/27/2022, 9:10 AM

@jetdv

"What if you do the same thing but use a Velocity Envelope set to -100 instead? Do you see the same issue then?"

I tested an old project and setting the Velocity Envelope to -100 works in my use case.

Disclaimer:

When I was doing animated graphics like this every week, I just reworked the original projects to move on-screen, run for longer than I needed and move off screen. I'd just nest the project, split in the middle, align the end point and skip the reverse step.

john_dennis wrote on 2/27/2022, 9:37 AM

@jetdv @Grazie

I'm in a quandary. I rendered my nested project to MagicYUV RGBA and replaced the nested projects with the transparent AVIs. Reversing worked as expected. All work done in Vegas Pro 19-458.

That's one in a row.

Grazie wrote on 2/27/2022, 11:57 AM

@john_dennis - Are you saying that the REVERSE is working? Are you using MagicYUV 2.3.2 Released: 2021.11.15.

Changelog states: "NEW: Vegas Pro plugin: Installer now installs the plugin for Vegas Pro 19."

Grazie wrote on 2/27/2022, 12:10 PM

Just repeated:

1 - Place Title Text on TL

2 - Add Animation "Falling Down".

3 - Render to:

4 - Place "3" above on TL.

5 - Play forward fine.

6 - Select "Reverse" from the drop-down Menu and the Media goes AWOL with this warning:

The error persists for me.

john_dennis wrote on 2/27/2022, 12:26 PM

@Grazie

Tried new media and got the same as you for MagicYUV_Ultimate_v2.3.2_win when using the "Reverse" option. Using Velocity Envelope -100 still works. Perhaps I crossed my hands with a previous test. I was replacing a nested event in an old project with the rendered version for MagicYUV RGBA.

Grazie wrote on 2/27/2022, 12:44 PM

@Grazie

Tried new media and got the same as you for MagicYUV_Ultimate_v2.3.2_win when using the "Reverse" option.

@john_dennis - Ugh 😣…. The thing is, there maybe alternatives to reversing, but in the realm VegasPro where our controls are comprehensive, the drop down Reverse is just such a VP go-to action. The thing is, I shouldn’t need to be required to jump through another Hoop to reverse an already executed instruction - a render. But that’s me 😉.

Selina wrote on 2/27/2022, 4:31 PM

Reading this has been interesting and I've just treated myself to MagicYUV's codec offering. So glad to get rid of huge files as Vegas doesn't like .mov files that much!

Also worthy of note is that ffmpeg will convert from uncompressed RBGA avi to MagicYUV's format as follows:

ffmpeg.exe -i [Uncompressed_RGBA.avi] -strict -2 -vcodec magicyuv -pix_fmt gbrap [RGBA_converted.avi]

The size differences are as follows for a 1080p 10-second video:

Uncompressed_RGBA.avi   3.87 GB       That's a saving of 0%
MagicYUV_RGBA.avi   313 MB       That's a saving of 92% - WOW
RGBA_converted.avi   526 MB       That's a saving of 86% - Still Great

I don't know if this is at all helpful???

TheRhino wrote on 2/27/2022, 6:27 PM

The thing is, I shouldn’t need to be required to jump through another Hoop to reverse an already executed instruction - a render. But that’s me 😉.

Reading this has been interesting and I've just treated myself to MagicYUV's codec offering. So glad to get rid of huge files as Vegas doesn't like .mov files that much!

If I add too many DNxHD or DNxHR MOV files to the timeline, Vegas crashes. So, I switch to AVI for large projects. Now using Reverse on the timeline doesn't work with AVI, so fixing one bug exposes another bug... This is where using Vegas can get frustrating for paid work, but I have learned to copy my footage to an older version of Vegas, in this case V18, and just keep humming along... I don't want to pre-render my footage or mess with velocity because these are harder to remember if I pull-up the project 5 years from now... I like to keep to the same workflows due to the sheer number of projects I edit....

I literally edit 100s of paid project annually, so I've learned to name the VEGs so I know what version of Vegas worked for that project so I don't load it in a newer version of Vegas and have everything break... Been there, done that, and once you rewrite the VEG over the old edition, you can't go back unless you keep backups in various places, which I have also learned to do...

Selina wrote on 2/27/2022, 6:52 PM

@TheRhino great tips for efficient editing - thanks for sharing 😺

Grazie wrote on 2/28/2022, 1:08 AM

@TheRhino and @Selina, sure, intelligent work-arounds, but a Bug is a Bug, and, in this instance requires that Team-Vegas communicates with the Author in some meaningful way to get it fixed. It’s how we’ve got the VegasPro we all enjoy working with today. Hard monotonous and relentless testing by those who’ve developed a Passion for this remarkable NLE.

So, how does it go?

1 - Test.

2 - Retest.

3 - Repeat.

Work-arounds can become like an Elastoplast on a rather deep wound. Better to use stitches.

Selina wrote on 2/28/2022, 4:13 AM

@Grazie Hope it's not gangrene (I wonder if that word came about because people would say "It's going green" with a strong Northern accent?) You'll have to cut that out and some good bits beside! 😹

Seriously, everyone wants bug-free software that's a breeze to use, innovative of method and up-to-date with latest consumer demands. We all have dreams like that... 😴

Grazie wrote on 2/28/2022, 4:45 AM

Seriously, everyone wants bug-free software that's a breeze to use, innovative of method and up-to-date with latest consumer demands.

@Selina - Nope, no I don’t. I want this Bug fixed. I’ve been on the case with VP for twenty years, and have long, long worked with others here to make our NLE better. I’m about turning wishes into reality.

We all have dreams like that... 😴

@Selina - I’m not “dreaming”. My Technical request is that this particular Bug is fixed. Schumacher: “Think Global, work Local.”