Reversal of MagicYUV rendered results in AWOL Media.

Grazie wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:24 AM

OK, I started this research as part of another Post, which was in itself a CallOut to others if they could replicate my observations when using the Reverse option in the Drop Down Event Menu.

Observation: When "Reversing" a Rendered MagicYUV RGBA the media would go AWOL.

Outcome: Today I've been in touch with the author of MagicYUV, Balázs Oroszi, who has told me this:

The reversing bug affects the MagicYUV Vegas Pro PLUGINS. It happens with VP17 (build 455), VP18 (build 527), VP19 (build 424).

Also this:

As an additional note I couldn't find anything in the plugin SDK with regards to reversing, and my plugin logs show nothing special either. The reversed media simply turns up as empty frame for me.

So, what I had unwittingly stumbled on was a Reversing Bug that needs the specific input from Team-Vegas to assist Balázs Oroszi. Needless to say, MagicYUV is mustard at rendering and produces ALPHA. If I wish to reverse that output then I'd need to reach out to VASST's Video Overlay, which will reverse nicely. The Reverse option in the Menu isn't at fault, rather it's the SDK for reversing that is at issue here.

I hope @VEGASDerek et al can asist Balázs Oroszi to get this to work.

Back to post

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 3/11/2022, 3:51 PM

Customize a VFW option to use Magic YUV RGBA and see if that works. I'll work on the menu when my granddaughter leaves.

Grazie wrote on 3/11/2022, 4:08 PM

Yes. However, don’t forget I CAN Reverse a MagicYUV using a -100% Velocity Envelope.

Grazie wrote on 3/12/2022, 1:27 AM

@john_dennis - OK, I started adjusting a Render template to match yours, but you've already started with this:

Where or how did you create this?

Through VfW I've now tried rolling my own and I can't get a Template that WILL play ball:

Here are my settings within VfW:

This is rough. 😠

Grazie wrote on 3/12/2022, 1:39 AM

@john_dennis - I just experimented with a SONY Template:

And using the Menu >>Reverse works, but of course, I don't get an ALPHA Channel.

Grazie wrote on 3/12/2022, 7:03 AM

OK, to get success I must FIRST:

Menu>>Reverse and THEN RGBA.

For me, the MagicYUV RGBA will not produce an RGBA which I can and THEN use the Menu>>Reverse, the Video is AWOL.

So, Menu>>Reverse prior to Render MagicYUV RGBA.

This is not this User's expectation. I can render other Formats and they all Menu>>Reverse it's only MagicYUV RGBA that loses the Media.

Grazie wrote on 3/15/2022, 11:01 AM

The Author has kindly got back to me with the news that Magix is working on it. As of yet no ETA. I have no idea how @john_dennis got it to work, if both the Author and Magix are correcting it, there has to be some issue with that Menu>>Reverse command.

john_dennis wrote on 3/15/2022, 12:30 PM

@Grazie

Recipe:

john_dennis wrote on 3/15/2022, 1:43 PM

@Grazie @VEGASHeman

Data Points:

I opened the MagicYUV RGBA file that I just rendered in Vegas 19-532 in Vegas Pro 13, 14, 15, 17, 18 and 19.

News Flash! News Flash! Vegas 19-532 on my machine uses aviplug.dll News Flash! News Flash!

General
  Name: Grazie's Recipe.avi
  Folder: C:\Users\John\Desktop\Render
  Type: Video for Windows
  Size: 4.55 GB (4,659,904,512 bytes)
  Created: Tuesday, March 15, 2022, 10:06:48 AM
  Modified: Tuesday, March 15, 2022, 10:07:04 AM
  Accessed: Tuesday, March 15, 2022, 11:24:34 AM
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:00:20.360, 25.000 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, MagicYUV - RGBA
  Audio: 00:00:20.360, 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, Uncompressed

Summary
  Author: John Dennis
  Copyright: 2021

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: aviplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 19.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\aviplug
  Format: Video for Windows
  Version: Version 19.0 (Build 532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

When I copied the aviplug.dll from Vegas 18 to C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 18.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\magicyuvplug folder and renamed to magicyuvplug.dll, Vegas 18 reversed as expected.

You guys figure this out, I'm going to get a haircut.

Former user wrote on 3/15/2022, 1:44 PM

@john_dennis I tried that, the pics below say 29.97fps but tried a few different frame rates, none worked, mine is 2.3.2 tho,

. You wrote that about the aviplug.dll while i was uploading,

john_dennis wrote on 3/15/2022, 1:47 PM

@Former user

See above.

Former user wrote on 3/15/2022, 1:51 PM

@john_dennis yep I added to the bottom of my comment above 👍

Selina wrote on 3/15/2022, 3:40 PM

When I copied the aviplug.dll from Vegas 18 to C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 18.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\magicyuvplug folder and renamed to magicyuvplug.dll, Vegas 18 reversed as expected.

It is never a good idea to swop dynamic link libraries (.dll) around. It's better to wait for the matter to be resolved correctly. You might think you've resolved the issue - but could well introduce further unexpected behaviour as the subroutines you are now calling were not programmed for the tasks you've now assigned them.

john_dennis wrote on 3/15/2022, 5:29 PM

@Selina

"It is never a good idea to swop dynamic link libraries (.dll) around. It's better to wait for the matter to be resolved correctly. You might think you've resolved the issue - but could well introduce further unexpected behaviour as the subroutines you are now calling were not programmed for the tasks you've now assigned them."

Respectfully, you are absolutely correct. Your advice is sound and everyone else on the forum should follow it.

There are a few things that you should know about me, however.

1) My Vegas 19-532 MagicYUV RGBA results differed from everyone else because my Vegas 19-532 installation uses aviplug.dll instead of the expected magicyuvplug.dll.

2) I was curious if Vegas 18 would operate the same if I forced it to use aviplug.dll by calling it magicyuvplug.dll.

3) I have up-to-the-minute system images and when I finish typing, I'll go back to my gold image and forget this s#1t ever happened.

4) My first rodeo was Cattleman's Days in Gunnison, Colorado 1965.

Grazie wrote on 3/15/2022, 10:11 PM

@john_dennis - Wow! I'm speechless. So, in furthering your understanding of how this "stuff" works, you've, as you say:

I was curious if Vegas 18 would operate the same if I forced it to use aviplug.dll by calling it magicyuvplug.dll.

And there's something you should know about me, what you've achieved is way, way above my pay-grade. What you've done is not within the parameters of my official VP Build as per download. Your successful examples, the reversing of the MagicYUV RGBA, I couldn't have achieved without the adjustments you'd made under the Hood/Bonnet of my setup.

Now, if you're indeed offering your experiments up to Team-Vegas as a possible "cure", then this is commendable. If I'd known just what or rather how you'd achieved success would mean me needing to alter the uses aviplug.dll instead of the expected magicyuvplug.dll with the potential adjustments of "subroutines" etc, with a Government Health Warning, I would never have spent so much of my time preparing materials to explain my, and what turns out others predicaments too.

We are fortunate to have your expertise on this Forum, and I always relish your comments, suggestions, and feedback.

My first rodeo was Cattleman's Days in Gunnison, Colorado 1965.

Priceless.

john_dennis wrote on 3/16/2022, 12:24 AM

@Grazie

I haven't cured anything. That's for the developers to do. Hopefully, I illuminated a corner of the issue. There's probably a complicated answer, but if aviplug.dll works, why do we need magicyuvplug.dll? Also, why does my Vegas 19-532 installation not use magicyuvplug.dll? I've always got more questions than answers.

Grazie wrote on 3/16/2022, 12:51 AM

@Grazie

I haven't cured anything.

@john_dennis - I did put cure in quotes.

That's for the developers to do.

@john_dennis - Agreed.

Hopefully, I illuminated a corner of the issue.

@john_dennis - Which I acknowledged.

There's probably a complicated answer,

You think 😉.

but if aviplug.dll works, why do we need magicyuvplug.dll?

Dunno…?

Also, why does my Vegas 19-532 installation not use magicyuvplug.dll? I've always got more questions than answers.

@john_dennis - So, you read my book - huh? I thought it was outta print 🤭.

Selina wrote on 3/16/2022, 3:23 AM

After a short investigation...

It would appear that the magicyuvplug.dll housed in the FileIOPlug-Ins folder does nothing other than show MagixYUV on the render menu as a separate subcategory and interferes somehow with how MagixYUV codec-coded files are handled, thus making it impossible to reverse a clip using the 'Reverse' command.

By renaming the offending dll to magicyuvplug.dll.old, (thereby making it invisible) you no longer have the render options displayed - not a big deal. BUT, you still have access to the magicYUV codec and can set up your own render templates just as @john_dennis has done. The resultant file is indeed a magicYUV file and what's more, Vegas will recognise it as such and Reverse it correctly.

Whilst we await an official fix, this seems to be an acceptable work-a-round.

Grazie wrote on 3/16/2022, 5:48 AM

Q1 - How is it I can take a rendered MagicYUV RGBA, place it onto the Timeline, apply a -100% velocity envelop, and then get a Reverse?

Q2 - I've read the comments, wont this renaming of the magicyuvplug.dll, mess with subroutines?

MagicYUV wrote on 3/16/2022, 6:02 AM

I thought I'd chime in before things get out of control :)

Please, don't swap or copy DLLs around. They might appear to work, but not for the reasons you think, and it will only cause massive issues down the line.

The reason reversing doesn't work currently is because of an issue between Vegas and the dedicated MagicYUV plugin. Hopefully it will be fixed soon, all I can say is that I cannot do anything about it from my side.

A workaround in the meantime is to reinstall the codec but deselect the Vegas plugins. That way the older VFW (Video For Windows) interface will be used by Vegas to communicate with MagicYUV. Keep in mind though, that VFW is an old interface and doesn't support 10bit+ color depths, and it might perform differently than the dedicated plugins.

Hope that helps.

Grazie wrote on 3/16/2022, 6:19 AM

@MagicYUV - Thanks for chiming in! Be assured I am NOT going to mess with anything that isn’t part of my official download of VP. In the meantime I do have the -100% Envel option.

I can only think that this thread, which I instigated, can only have assisted in the sharpening of the quills of the VP coders to launch enthusiastically into solving this particular Gordian Knot puzzle.

Selina wrote on 3/26/2022, 4:58 PM

The reason reversing doesn't work currently is because of an issue between Vegas and the dedicated MagicYUV plugin. Hopefully it will be fixed soon, all I can say is that I cannot do anything about it from my side.

Hope that helps.

Just wondering if this has been fixed now?

VEGASHeman wrote on 3/28/2022, 1:04 PM

We investigated the issue, and the problem is related to an incorrect return value from the plugin for a specific function call made by VEGAS. The call was also handled incorrectly in the example plugin we had provided with the SDK, and we will have that fixed in the next release of the SDK.

We have communicated with @MagicYUV about it, and I believe they should be able to get this to work by making the recommended changes, without waiting for a SDK update, though we do hope to get that out very soon too.

Grazie wrote on 3/28/2022, 1:28 PM

We investigated the issue, and the problem is related to an incorrect return value from the plugin for a specific function call made by VEGAS. The call was also handled incorrectly in the example plugin we had provided with the SDK, and we will have that fixed in the next release of the SDK.

@VEGASHeman - This is all excellent news! Really it is. You’ve got a very happy VegHead here. 😃

We have communicated with @MagicYUV about it, and I believe they should be able to get this to work by making the recommended changes, without waiting for a SDK update, though we do hope to get that out very soon too.

@VEGASHeman - And this too: Team-Vegas and @MagicYUV working so closely to deliver a fix. Thank you 😊

I started this post back in November ‘21, light at the end of the tunnel.

MagicYUV wrote on 3/28/2022, 2:05 PM

Yes, I got the necessary instructions about the fix and will make a release ASAP. In light of the new information, there's a couple things I need to get done first, I'll let you know when it's all finished.