Sleeping SONY?

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Weevil wrote on 6/1/2004, 11:50 PM
Man oh man, Weevil steps out of the bear pit to attend to some real world stuff for a while and returns to see the shizer has well and truly hit the old fan.

Bloody hell it’s like the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan in here fellas.

Looks like PCH has taken a direct hit...and as a result has set the controls for the heart of the sun.

That’s really, really, really bad. I mean anyone around here would know he has absolutely frustrated the bejesus outta me over the years. But it totally isn’t his fault; this is a massive case of shooting the messenger and I am super disappointed in all of us that it has come to this.

PH if you are listening I’d like to unreservedly apologise for any crap I have caused you over my time here. Despite out frequent disagreements I’ve always respected your passion and commitment to the project and the extremely difficult situation you are in. Your withdrawal from here is a great loss and genuinely makes me sad.

JD you have blown it big time buddy. While I totally agree with your frustration at the stagnation of the product, and the lack of communication, your personal attacks on PH are totally misdirected and way out of line.

That wasn’t an apology you wrote buddy. Count the number of lines apologising and the number of lines bitching. That was just another excuse to have the same rant you have been having here for years.

You make some sound, rational points sometimes but...dude...have a listen to yourself. It’s all so lost in the bile and vitriol that you sound like an incoherent raving lunatic. You’re like some sort of vagrant who stands on street corners and screams obscenities at passers by. The more you scream the more you sound like a freak show. Chill the fark out mate, take a sedative or something, get over it. Have a conversation rather than a screaming match for once.

Like I say, on a basic level I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I am extremely frustrated at the (lack of) direction myself. But you have personally attacked an innocent person and that is not cool at all. If PH really is gone everyone here should be lining up to kick you squarely in the balls.
Sreekesp wrote on 6/2/2004, 2:37 AM
Sony Vegas is the best product in the market. and remember there is no silver bullet for everything such as functions, easyness, Price....etc....
I am carzy of Sony Vegas and I love it..
cosmo wrote on 6/2/2004, 9:37 AM
No gold records on my walls...just black ones. (good for a laugh once...why not twice!)

That's the last time I move....3 days go by and a sh*tstorm like this happens! F'n ridiculous if you ask me. I make music almost every day of my life, not for money, not for fame, not for gold records - but because I LOVE to do it. I can't live without it. When I go into my studio at night, if things don't work properly and easily I get frustrated and become unhappy. It wrecks everything. Problems like that haven't happened in a looooong time. Be thankful for much more stable apps then years past. The rest is just convenience.

Peter knows why users like me still track in other apps that have VST and Rewire, and he also knows we come back to mix in Vegas. Dumb-*ss users on this forum calling him names won't make features appear -) I think a little maturity is in order. Get over it. Vegas rocks.

The rest is just bickering between old friends -)
tmrpro wrote on 6/2/2004, 10:00 AM
decrink said:
I have a hit single on a Christian chart. I have national commercials. I did that 15 years ago. I'm bigger. No I'm bigger.

You know it is stupid... It is amazing that anyone, gold records or not, would be led to bicker about what they did or who they are or any of that...

But when someone questions your ability to make a descent recording and compares your quality of work to a panasonic dictaphone when they have never heard your work or know what you do..... the information is going to be provided to justify a point of knowledge...

Ask a question get an answer... make an incorrect statement, get a corrective response...

decrink said:
Did you record any of your chart topping music in Vegas?

This is precisely my point... I haven't, I want to and I will ...when the simple issues that keep me from doing so are fixed.

We are very close to that point and I don't want it to be written off because it is seemingly unimportant to the majority of Vegas users.

I have mixed all of my albums using Vegas over the past couple of years....
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/2/2004, 10:16 AM
" the information is going to be provided to justify a point of knowledge"

and I still fail to see the problem with that. People think its horn tooting, but sometimes you have to say it in order to show you know what you are talking about, when confronted with erroneous information from someone who DOESNT know better.

I dont understand why there is a hatred for those that can, you would think their knowledge was wanted

I know PC software can make the great democracy, as in everyone has the same tool, so everyone is equal. But dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. The tool is not nearly so important as the nut behind the wheel. It doesnt hurt to understand the rules and working flow and working history of those nuts who were driving long before this stuff was available to everyone.

And yes there ARE or at least were some rules. You might not like them, you might not agree that there should have been, but there are. If you are working with experienced artists, they also know those rules and expect you to follow them. Input monitoring is a HUGE issue when you are recording an experienced artist. To them they dont even think about it, they just expect it to work. They couldnt even tell you what it is, but they expect it to work a certain way.

If youve been around a while, how silly do you feel when a client says "well why dont you throw that LA-2A on the vocals during mixdown? Yet you really wont because of how inconvenient it is in many cases and workflows to throw it in a vegas mix? Or nearly any other DAW's mix for that matter. Peter mentioned a long time ago that these things could be possible, so Im holding out hope.
VegUser wrote on 6/2/2004, 1:25 PM
Oh weevis, get a grip you sap - do you really need any sony rep at this point? NOBODY FROM SONY IS HERE LISTENING TO ANYTHING IN VEGAS-AUDIO. Period.
_PCH said he can't do anything as for what users want at this point.
The rest has just been a user base on a msg board - nothing more.

I apologized to _pch for you guys, not myself, but I wanted to hear the truth, adn I got it. Every frustration I have with sony on this matter hasn't changed - I know now that NOTHING would ever become of it based on the response.







MJhig wrote on 6/2/2004, 2:15 PM
do you really need any sony rep at this point?

If you are implying that Peter's posts are answers to basic "How do I.." type posts here you couldn't be more mistaken. Peter gives incite to the inner workings of the apps. that only one of the builders could provide. He confirms whether or not an issue is bug or not and that if so will be addressed. He corrects misinformation that would otherwise go un-addressed etc. etc. etc.

You can view Peter's post history and see for yourself the time and effort he has contributed here and the other forums. It's NOT a do the advanced Vegas users need Peter to solve most of their issues with audio in general and using Vegas.

NOBODY FROM SONY IS HERE LISTENING TO ANYTHING IN VEGAS-AUDIO

This forum is not for griping to Sony about what you think Vegas should be.

This forum is not for griping to Sony about what you think Vegas should be

This forum is not for griping to Sony about what you think Vegas should be

I repeat this because your selfish RANTS over the years have been nothing but that, you obviously don't get it.

As stated, Peter does know what the requests are, but he's one of the audio guys who are part of the Vegas team which is a small segment of Sony.

You offer nothing to this forum and given the choice I'd without question prefer Peter post here than you.

Also as stated, Vegas is what it is, if it's not all you want it to be go where the action is for you. Do you really think your insulting ranting will have a positive effect on anything?

MJ
VegUser wrote on 6/2/2004, 8:05 PM
incite on a app that's stagnant now?

I HIGHLY doubt _pch left because of what I've had to say on the matter. He knows damn well better than all of use where the app is headed as for daw users.
I aplogized to _PCH for the others here who really, really need him (?), but not for myself. I also had no idea Sony\sf doesn't listen to it's user base here, I had no idea there IS ONLY ONE GUY WHO VISITS HERE ON HIS LEISURE TIME (whenever he feels like it) WHICH ONLY AMOUNTS NOW TO COMMON CHIT CHAT knowing what we know now.
This is why I aplogized to the _PCH guy.

As for you, you can hate me all you want, I don't give a rats ass about you. I give a rats ass about vegas, it's upgrades, the prices vs. the functionality gain. I siad VEGAS CAN BE A BETTER CHOICE in the daw application arena -and described why.
Really, If vegas is as is, I see very little reason why many daw users would need to choose the v4 or v5 upgrade from v3. It would have been nice to know the godd*amn truth from sony...and now I think we got it.
_PCH's post pretty much infered what chickenshit sony could not muster the balls to say - vegas is as finished as it will be. He apparently had to answer FOR them as they DON'T INTEND ON LISTENING HERE.
Go re-read his replies on any post asking "when will we be getting...?"
It's the same replies, over and over.

And if you want to sit around like some rube believing that vegas is still in the making - that's fine. I however was not satisfied and about to believe anything until I heard back. After all the him-haw, corporate responses...we heard back. vegas is now as is (which actually I knew would already happen once Sony entered the equation). I've been reading posts from users here where they basically state we'll "soon" be seeing the functionality, soon we'll be seeing this..that...blah-blah. YET NEVER A RESPONSE FROM AN SF REP ON THIS. EVER.
Just conjecture as most tout vegas being the ulitmate daw app. If it can't compete with the other daw applications functionalities it won't get past the best buy store in the multimedia section.
it's a godamned shame.
Why don't you all email sony tech, sales, and development as i have, rather than sit on this msg board beggin for a hero? The last chance of hope for vegas-audio is there - not here.
gjn wrote on 6/6/2004, 10:06 AM
Indeed on.
No critic for the pleasure.
No demand of improvement to annoy.
It is a chance for sony, all demands "sometimes badly expressed".

But, calmly, look at the complaints on the forum vegas audio and acid pro!!!
It is not normal.
When we arrive at this situation, it is that there is a strategic problem.
Have no it man's problem.


I hope that sony be going to bounce. I liked vegas, acid and soundforge but....

MrPhil wrote on 6/10/2004, 3:56 AM
I agree with you on the issue that Vegas really don't need MIDI. I can't understand why so many(?) people would like everything implemented in one single program. It just makes the program become a compromize between different tasks.
Look at Sonar: It's fairly good at everything, but not the best on anything.
Vegas is far better on audio, the old Atari seq Creator/Notator is still better for writing and arranging songs with MIDI.
(This of course shows MY own personal opinion based on the tools I use and the way I work).

My personal view is that VEGAS should focus even more on MTR and editing, and maybe be able to run other manufacturers hardware like SoundScape units and such.
MrPhil wrote on 6/10/2004, 6:59 AM
As Vegas is as useless as you say, then the nick VegUser must mean you like to wok a lot.
MrPhil wrote on 6/10/2004, 7:10 AM
"A lot of us want to be able to mix audio and midi side-by-side. I would argue that the majority of us do, as evidenced by the number of Cubase and Sonar users out there."

- Don't forget that both Sonar and Cubase are made for homeusers as well. It's a different market. People sitting in their homes making midi-tunes and recording some guitars and vocals.
Not many pro studios have Sonar or Cubase as their main MTR production tool. As a sequenser? - Yes. And to implement arrangements customers pre-produced at home? - Yes.
But as for the heart of a studio, the choice is more often a harware system like pro-tools, sounsdscape or something else.
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/10/2004, 9:51 AM
if Vegas can run audio and VIDEO....video!, I dont think audio and midi together would make any compromises....come on man
klyon wrote on 6/10/2004, 10:56 AM
True; video is a lot further off the audio track than midi -- which doesn't make it necessarily bad, of course.
And, by the way, pro tools has rewire and does midi at least as well as acid and I've seen quite a few pro facilities using logic.
drbam wrote on 6/10/2004, 1:56 PM
>> . . . and I've seen quite a few pro facilities using logic. <<

Yes, and Nuendo as well.

drbam
MrPhil wrote on 6/11/2004, 7:42 AM
Not compromises in ability so much as in usability.
Too much of everything always leads to compromises.
How many use Vegas as a MTR and Video editing tool at the same time?
Are we talking PRO level recording studios, or the "project studio for a bit of sound and a bit of music/video project and a bit of whatever people with no money can afford"?
MrPhil wrote on 6/11/2004, 7:48 AM
"I've seen quite a few pro facilities using logic. "

- So have I, but NOT as their main MTR tool. Nuendo though I have seen.
Maybe we're talking different levels of pro.

Of course midi is closer than video to music.
And by the way, if I had my way, the Video stuff in Vegas would be thrown out for the benefit of lots of hardware controls and a decent overviewable mixer.
As I said: compromises.
drbam wrote on 6/11/2004, 8:47 AM
I think that attempting to define "Pro" in this context is not really useful. Its way too subjective and you will NEVER establish a consensus on this. In the past this kind of thing has only served to heat up the discussions culminating in a flame war. Bottom line, if you have a studio that's generating enough income to include in your tax return, you have a "pro" studio and any arguments to the contrary are simply personal opinions.

drbam
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/11/2004, 10:03 AM
There are those of us that use Vegas by choice, not by economics. My partner would do ANYTHING to make me use PT, but Im not having it
MrPhil wrote on 6/16/2004, 12:49 AM
I agree with you.
When I say pro, I mean a studio that are managed as a company, not as a personal studio where sometimes people come in and pay money without taxes.