Vegas 5 : Tell us what you need


doctorfish wrote on 9/21/2003, 12:12 AM
Sorry if this is long and repeats much of what has already been said,
but the whole point of this thread is to show that many of us want
these same features.

Here goes:

real time fx per event

bus to bus, bus to fx, fx to bus routing

bus grouping

freeze/hide tracks groups

track meters

import acid projects

omf support

ability to time stamp events

event reverse

ability to choose more than one audio editor

open more than one fx window

destructive recording to record directly over a bad take

easier way to name many tracks. when I double click to
name a track, perhaps the tab key or something could take
me directly to the next track's name strip and make it
ready for text entry.

tempo changes if only to make the grid line up,
I like the idea of a tempo track

midi file playback with multiple track midi files opening
to separate tracks. I can handle editing midi in another
app but I'd at least like to be able to play midi files.
this would include having an option to "Open in Midi Editor"

mono switch on master fader

punch in/out on the fly


mute is absolute for the track, prefader sends and all. It gets me every
once in a while when I render a few tracks and then realize the fx from the
muted tracks are still coming trough

ability to rearrange bus order.

I like the idea mentioned above for a playlist to reorder regions during
those times when the parts are down but the arrangement is still in question.

BPM info added to SoFo fx.

I also like the above idea for a DX peak/VU meter. I was hoping
that the VU meter in Sound Forge 7 would be DX so I could use it
in Vegas, Acid, and CD-Architect as well.

link tracks to media bins so that when I record or add an event to a track
it also gets listed in the relative media bin. This would make bin
management much more usuable. To manually add all events to different
bins just seems to take up a lot of time so I've stopped using them.

project backup to cd/dvd that would take all media files from wherever they
are on the computer and burn them to cd/dvd. For those projects
that are too large for one CD, this could include the ability to burn
only selected media bins thus making the media bin-track linking
very useful. So that in x number of passes the project gets archived
with having to use up tons of disc space to resave it all in a new folder
on my hard drive.

show/hide individual fx envelopes keyboard short cuts
(ctrl-f-1, ctrl-f-2 . . . or something.)

stakeoutstudios wrote on 9/21/2003, 3:50 AM
I'll add to this list...

ReWire to ACID... or the monster combo app, whatever you choose.

When you group items, the fades on the event start and finish should also group!

on grouped events when you change the event fade type, it should change on the rest of the group as well. You won't believe how much time this would save me when drum editing!

Keyboard shortcuts to tune events very quickly.. I do that with vocals a lot.

Timesignature / Tempo changes as per ACID. BPM on main screen.

Reverse Audio event switch (ACID has this now?!)

Freeze Plugins feature on Tracks / Busses, as per Logic 6 on Mac.
(that would help so much for when we're maxxing our systems!)

Export all tracks or busses to full length files automatically option (with or without FX)
(helps moving projects sytem to system)

Side Chain Support for DirectX Plugins

Dual Processor / Multithread optimization

Recommended or tried and tested hardware configuration on websites. Even if written by users.

Push to Pro-Audio community with magazine adverts, Audio shows etc.

I'm gonna put 'Recorded in Sonic Foundry Vegas' on some releases this year, as per Pro Tools, lol! Do my advertising bit :o)

Hardware Control.

Some kind of standard that allows us to insert surround capable directX plugins (I dunno if they exist yet!)

Variable phase control. On track events, you must know we have gain envelopes at the top of these? How about a variable phase envelope (maybe without envelope points (that'd be very complex!). Instruments are rarely 180 degrees out of phase. This allow us to visually exactly compare two tracks to match up phase exactly! It would be great for Over and under snare drum microphones, and Bass DI and Bass Cab matching.

Buss to buss assignments.

Buss to FX assignments.
(I compress vocals through a buss, so using a track as an aux send to a reverb or delay will bypass the compression - not very useful!)

Remove unused media from project (like save as / copy trim but without having to save the project elsewhere.)

Ability to create folders anywhere in the plugins panel, so we can organise our plugins better.

Preferably make sure a UAD1 is in your testing rigs - many people use these now!

Long beta / public beta testing stages. We'd all like to get hold of the program as soon as possible, but in reality it'd be great just to plug it in and get on with our work!

thanks again SF! I'll post more as I think of it.

drbam wrote on 9/21/2003, 8:46 AM
Everything that Dave (doctorfish) said plus controller and rewire support. Thanks for listening! ;-)

Angels wrote on 9/21/2003, 10:20 AM
Things I've missed:

The output Mono switch.

A Time-stretch envelope.

A separate folder for media when "Copy all media with project" is used (rediculously simple to implement, and makes for a much neater file/folder structure).

Real-time automation: being able to record automatable parameters in real time via mouse, including an read/write automation system.

Real-time Surround automation: being able to just grab the "listener position" in the surround panner and record the moves I make in real time, including an read/write automation system.

Tighter integration with Sound Forge allowing multiple events to be opened in Sound Forge, and editing done in Forge to be updated automatically in Vegas, so no commiting to saves is necessary until sure of result. This would compensate for Forge being unable to playback more than one file at a time.

Memorizable Zoom settings

Built-in VST plugin support and automation

MIDI Sequencing

The Output Mono switch.

Things I never use:

The output DIM switch



PS: Relieved and glad to hear PCH is still here after the Sony transition! :)

akg wrote on 9/21/2003, 11:54 AM
Import AC3 file encode to 6 channal !!

For video
Support to import & render flash swf file .
Support video card TV-OUT preview .
Support import mpeg4 avi file .
support more 3d fx plug-in .
supprrt rander picture sequence file .
laurent wrote on 9/21/2003, 7:06 PM
An easier way to go to a marker or region, perhaps on the context menu from right-clicking on the marker or region in the Edit Details window.

A mono button for the main bus.

Geoff_Wood wrote on 9/21/2003, 7:52 PM
A more comprehensive way of indicating the presence of, and managing multiple Takes.

Weevil wrote on 9/22/2003, 2:08 AM
Okay I’ll drag out me list o’ favourites for another thrashin’.

1. A Full Public Beta!

2. MIDI/VSTi’s.

3. ACID style loop tracks.

4. BPM and time signature on the main screen. Tempo changes. A swing/shuffle control with a grid that reflects tempo/swing settings.

5. Much more comprehensive Import/Export. Dragging tracks/events from the timeline straight onto the explorer window would be very, very cool.

6. Ability to insert FX chains on individual events (as in CD Architect!!!)

7. Bus to Bus assignments. Mono busses. Ability to change the order of buses left or right (the same way you can change the order of tracks up or down)

8. Take number to be displayed on multi-take events

9. Ability to set the current project folder as the default location for 'Save as' and 'Render as'

10. A reverse event switch.

11. Ability to drag and drop FX chains from one track/bus to another. I.e. Grab a Track FX button, and drop it onto another track FX button to copy FX chains from one track to the other.

12. Status bar to display names of plug-ins in chain when mouse hovers over the Track FX (or Bus FX) buttons.

13. Internal preference ‘Event Group Selection = True’ behaviour to be a ‘public’ option.

14. Fade handles on grouped events to be group aware.

15. Shift-S to split and automatically overlap events at the split point.

16. Ability to define event loop points in the trimmer...You press record and the guitarist plays the verse progression 3 times. The 1st and 3rd are rubbish but the 2nd one is gold. No problem, go to the trimmer and drag the loop points from the far edges of the media to surround the phrase you want to keep. From that point on the media behaves as if it were cropped at that point. Drag out the edges in the timeline and it loops around the 2nd version.

17. The ability to rename/move files used in the project in the explorer window and the media pool.

18. Event selection in track view mirrored in Media Pool (and vice-versa)

19. Ability to time-stretch and loop envelope points in the same way you can time-stretch and loop events. E.g. Draw a selection range around a series of envelope points, then Ctrl-Drag the edge to the selection range to time-stretch/compress the points. Draw a selection range around a series of envelope points, hold down a designated key, and drag the edge out to loop the points...Either that or something like the ‘sine wave’ option.

20. An option to allow users with a mouse wheel to zoom without being forced to repeatedly move the playback cursor.

21. The enable snapping button in ACID’s Piano Roll Editor also has a drop down list of grid spacing options. This would be an excellent addition to Vegas’s enable snapping button.

22. A make this crap sound good button.
SonyMLogan wrote on 9/22/2003, 3:30 PM
> 8. Take number to be displayed on multi-take events

Try checking Options->Preferences->General->"Show active take names in events".

Does this still miss the mark? What needs to change?

Would you prefer to have this enabled by default?

How would you utilize the take name information?
Rednroll wrote on 9/22/2003, 4:02 PM
"Does this still miss the mark? What needs to change?"

I recently saw a good suggestion on this. If there was some kind of visual (ie color change) that would indicate that there were multiple takes within an event. That way, it would be more obvious upon glancing at a project if other takes where available. This would help out tremendously, especially if someone else had previously been working on a project and you where not familiar with what had previously been recorded.
bgc wrote on 9/22/2003, 5:22 PM
I agree some way to know that there were multiple takes in an event by just looking at it would be useful. I sometimes forget than an event has multiple takes in there, especially if I've been away from a project for weeks or months.
It could even be as simple as the event text being:
"Track 1 Recording 6, Take 3 (of 4)"
where the "(of 4)" would indicate multiple takes.
Ben  wrote on 9/22/2003, 5:33 PM
Related to this, it would useful be very useful to be able to change the default titles for 'track', 'recording', and 'take'. Currently you can end up with ridiculously long file names, e.g.:

track 1 recording 3 take 2 take 4 take 1

I have loads of these lying around my hard disc, due to opening and then saving different versions in Forge. It'd be nice to be able to change the default names.

rooky wrote on 9/22/2003, 8:54 PM
Please make it clear in the new version that the setting for resample quality in the project audio properties menu will effect the quality of the final render. I just had 500 CD's produced at preview quality by mistake. No wonder I thought the mixers were underperforming. At best resample quality, the render really glistens!

Rednroll wrote on 9/23/2003, 6:06 PM
11. Pre and Post fader Track inserts

...they're currently only pre, having them post would allow you to put a limiter on the output of the track fader.
Arnar wrote on 9/24/2003, 3:42 AM

Does the resample setting affect the final render quality???

In what way ??

If so then its quite a shock to hear that.
Please someone tell me that this aint true.
bgc wrote on 9/24/2003, 12:41 PM
This is somewhat outside the scope of this thread, but:
If your project uses audio media that are not the same sample rate as the final project sample rate then they must be resampled. The resample quality setting determines the complexity of the method used to resample the audio with Best being the most complex (and most processor intensive). This setting will only affect your final render result if resampling is performed on the project data.
PipelineAudio wrote on 9/24/2003, 12:55 PM
it should always be the best possiblewhile rendering tho, I thought that the setting was only for preview mode?
PeterVred wrote on 9/24/2003, 2:31 PM
So there are no more fixes to Vegas 4?? I still have bugs.
If not, then i guess i just need the simple things:

1) Mute channel mutes efx sends to buss.
2) Opening Efx window won't cause nasty digital glitch sounds.
3) Third party efx in channel Efx strings to not "move" when selected to edit.
(such as reverb "jumping" ahead of compressor, every time).
4) Real input monitoring reactive to punching in.
5) Group fade of tracks.
6) Cappuccino maker.

adowrx wrote on 9/24/2003, 8:08 PM
When right clicking pan/fx on an audio track, also have a dropdown of which channels are assigned to each bus/effect with the option of changing all channels as a group or individually.....I guess folder levels would also work ala Cubase/Nuendo

cheroxy wrote on 9/24/2003, 9:57 PM
Computer geek’s perspective:

· Change current programming so that when you click on “save as” it goes to the last folder you went to for “save as” rather than the last folder that you went to for importing media. ie - if you just went to your media folder to import media it sucks to have to find your veggies folder again where you save your veggies because you start where you just went to find your media, two separate folders. This would allow me to jump around in the program without having to re-search through all of my hard drive.
· Have an option to click on a piece of media and be able to replace it without losing the effects that have been made to it. Example – If I have some keyframes to a clip and I want to change it and add another clip.
· On the explorer tab have the option to view the files as a thumbnail like you can in windows explorer and media pool. This would allow me to have a better idea what the media is without having to play it (especially with still shots
Enforcer wrote on 9/25/2003, 4:01 AM
I think the 2 most important things would have to be midi and vsti support jsut like in acid. It would really help the Vegas platform become more musically creative puting it in the playing field of SX and Nuendo without the slowness (editing wise).
Having to export midi stuff to other programmes often makes things very slow and can become a huge hassel. With the whole lot in one app Vegas would be a killer app (even more so than it already is) .
kind regards
DJPadre wrote on 9/25/2003, 12:19 PM
I assume your also referring to an update for Architect??
I hope so!!!!!
Archtiect needs ALOT of work..

Moving onto the topic

I dont see why all the other NLE's should be the only ones having the ability to run TRUE realtime processed DV with effects, transitions etc etc

Also it would be nice to be able to do a full mpg2 render in realtime like the Canopus, as it would save ALOT of time and ALOT of wear and tear on PC Gear.
Even with a p4 3.06 800mhz fsb + HT with 1gb DDR ram and dedicated WD 120gb HDD with 8mb cache, i still get alot of frame drops/lag when runnin files in realtime off the timeline.
Running full screen at best is non existant with Vegas, and i would like to be able to hit play and jsut record my edit directly onto DV without the need to render. I cant do that with Vegas

Rendering is also tedious so a HW encoder (MPG/DV) card support would be nice. or do it like canopus and have the main card support DV and an additional daughterboard for MPG encoding...

Vegas is awsome, but its only let down by the fact that there is no HW support for it.

Premeiere is what it is today due to the HW support it has, Vegas is good, but considering the price, i would like to think that i can at least hit play and record direct to tape, which is not possible at this time with Vegas.

If using the SAME bitrate calcualtions, there really is no need to re-render an already rendered file. It jsut needs to be merged which can be done with free applications but their tedious.
Not only does re-rendering it waste time, but it also ruins your footage.
heres hoping an update will be made available which bypasses the multi render of a file with the same atributes....

Audio bleeding from bus channels in the mixer to main, as well as AC3 encding using metadata, i recently made a 5.1 project with a preferred EX mixdown and the actual 5.1 fle was rendered to stereo with LFE on playback, when this info is infact supposed to be used as reference for downmix for analogue L/R ProLogicII, it used the metadata info as project data, so theres a bit of a bug on that one.

Dolby Labs have a standard required bitrate between 448 and 600 kbps, which Vegas shows as being en error when attempting to encode into anythign higher than 448. Architect then follows and attempts to reencode the file during dvd process.

I actualyl have a DVDA project which sees a 448kbps ac3 as 5.2 gb file when its only 400mb, but when i put in the 600, it sees it as 1.4gb.

why? Who knows...
Funny thing is it saw the 640kbps AC3 as being SMALLER than the 448kbps ac3, which WAS the smaller file size... and saw these individual files as about 5gb each when imported...

Maybe a refresh and proper MB calculation.. i think it did this as i am runnign additiona HDD's on a seeprate IDE channel, which is the Bios and WinXP see as scsi/raid extension.

On top of that it wouldnt let me select the audio as being from the "original Project" <like the video> so i have no choice but to rerender the audio, which is really unnecessary as the disc STILL shows as having 10% space left over.

A proper "refresh" button in DVDA would be nice as well as an accurate calculator, as its tryin to render files which have been created using the DVDA templates in Vegas.

Moving on..

when freezing a frame you have to make sure that the frame itself ISNT the "blended" part of a series of fields. On a PC this is extreely hard to spot, however if you set your preview to best, and enlarge the screen this may help decipher the frame.
If shooting in Progressive you wont have this issue

In the timeline, you wont notice this flicker much, but on a standalone dvd playing the movie back, its noticable to a point of garbage.
The other alternatve is to capture the frame as a still image and import it.
This is what i will be doing from now on.. usually i just run the velocity down to zero, but i with the 4d version of Vegas, this doesnt seem to give me the quality of the older versions.

this flicker even occurs even when using the reduce interlace flicker facility as well as the resample function.
for some reason, vegas4d (or main conepct encoder??) cant decipher or handle the centre field from the main field (im referring to PAL here but any interlaced project would also experience this im sure)

Vegas should find the best frame (such as VidCap4) BUT lock onto itwhen using velocities. Best frame i refer to main field, not the blended field. This will help alleviate this probelm and stop the need to render a whole project after a DVD is burnt and played back.

ARCHITECT NEEDS ALOT OF WORK!! Damn fine concept in DVD Creation, but the execution sucks the big one... very buggy, very slow in encoding but offers the fastest dvd menu creation on teh market

I would like to be able to import multiple files into the main timeline (ie dolby digital intro before the main feature) , as well as having the option to go back to main menu when a clip is finished, instead of having it only be a starting point.

I included architect as it seems it was only created to fill a market gap but has cause more problems than what its worth.. to this day i still need to burn to DVDRW then use that as master when using another burning app to duplicate...

With regard to fx, i would like to see some more track motion effect templates, like picture in picture and video walls, not jsut TV viewing formats...

As i said, i included Architect as these 2 apps go hand in hand, but htere are alot more problems with architect and this was jsut a vegas 5 thread.
Thats about it i guess...
thanx for asking what we need thou.. its rare to see that...
DJPadre wrote on 9/25/2003, 12:23 PM
forgot to mention...
DVDAudio rendering to AC3 5.1 96khz or even 192 if ur Soundcard can handle it would be nice
Rednroll wrote on 9/25/2003, 2:14 PM
Excellent suggenstions DJPadre, Do you think you could offer a few more Video features in the Vegas "Audio" forum, we really enjoy those here? Your post was way too concise and direct to the point also, I think a few more lines and all of us could have gotten a good nights sleep. :-)