Thanks @ j-v

Switching the 'Show Thumbnail' options does not seem to make a lot of difference.

Unchecking the the 'File I/O'... 'Use legacy HEVC decoder stops most of the crashes...but....

Playback from the timeline to the preview screen, even on the lowest quality setting is non-existent. It rather defeats the object of having Vegas as a NLE.

You said <<as a consequece that you have to use proxyfiles to let those files smooth play on the timeline>

How is that done?

You said <<as a consequece that you have to use proxyfiles to let those files smooth play on the timeline>

How is that done?

In projectmedia rightclick on the file and choose Create Video Proxy plus set the preview screen on Preview (auto)

Thanks @j-v. For a piece of software that is so expensive Vegas is pretty damn buggy. Considering that HEVC is the way ahead for many it is a shame they have not yet got this right.

At least I now have a workflow that I can live with.

HEVC isn't a great format for editing- the reason it's used is to reduce bandwidth and capture file sizes on devices like GoPros and phones, though it is getting more widespread.

If your computer has an Intel iGPU you can use for decoding it may work better than the NVIDIA card. You might need to enable that in bios.

Personally I'd batch re-encode to AVC before bringing into Vegas and save an editing hassle.

Thanks @RogerS  I can see myself rendering in HEVC for a finished product - just for the reduced bandwidth. I have contemplated a more capable video card than the NVIDIA GeForce 1050Ti but I am left wondering if it would actually be a worthwhile investment?

The question remains... what should I master in? The camera offers 2160-50 HEVC as mp4 which is what I have based my workflow on in the past.

Alternatively I could avoid HEVC and master in .mov as 2160-50p/Long GOP 200M. Do you think that is a better option?

Does your CPU have a built in integrated GPU? Enable it in bios and that's better than any dedicated GPU for decoding in Vegas.

It's fine to render to HEVC but I wouldn't use it for further editing.

For further editing ProRes 422 is a safe choice. I also use MagixAVC with Mainconcept.

If the camera has an AVC choice try that. Otherwise Shutter Encoder is a free program that can convert a folder of files to AVC for you. I use it with phone footage.

<<Does your CPU have a built in integrated GPU? Enable it in bios and that's better than any dedicated GPU for decoding in Vegas.>> Asus X299 motherboard.... Very capable but sadly no iGPU

Very capable but sadly no iGPU

I sympathise with you. When I chose my Dell Alienware desktop nearly 2 years ago, I chose the non-iGPU version (Intel i9 10900KF) because, on paper, it had a few better specs than the same CPU with an iGPU. In the long run, I unfortunately made not the best choice.

Having disable legacy HEVC and created proxies for each of the project clips, timeline samples run acceptably with no crashes albeit in low preview resolutions. However the same does not apply to Auto-Preview of clips from the Project Media window. Highlighting a clip there results in very jumpy playback making Auto-Preview unusable. Can the Auto-Preview function be directed to preview from the proxy instead of from the full-res clip?

@Richard-N Have the same camera. No problem editing single timeline with VP19. However; do have iGPU built in and connected to TV via hdmi although for editing purposes the same TV is connected via hdmi from BMIP4K card.

Sys 1 OK , Proxies only on laptop

I have the same camera and the Intel Graphics 630 activated in BIOS and Vegas and it's impossible to put more than twenty clips on the timeline without crashing Vegas and then the whole Windows system. Here an MediaInfo extract:

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.2@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 5 s 760 ms
Bit rate                                 : 193 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.466
Stream size                              : 133 MiB (99%)
Language                                 : Spanish
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-07-18 18:23:25
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-07-18 18:23:25
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

So what have I learnt?

This very expensive software that is Vegas Pro 19 is pretty much useless in working with the latest high-bitrate HEVC footage without disabling legacy HEVC decoding. Even then, proxy clip generation is required and the result is.... Timeline preview will only work at draft low resolutions, and the Preview function from the Project Media window is so slow as to be unusable. It needs:

a) A better PC than MAGIX suggest in the spec and,

b) An iGPU capable motherboard to work with HEVC footage.

c) Some serious work on the HEVC dynamic link libraries

I have tested various footage output from the Panasonic HC-X1500. The HEVC 2160-50p/Long GOP 200M cannot be edited with VP 19 due to system crashes and poor performance. In future I will stick with AVC and shoot in the device's .MOV AVC format at 2160p-50 420GOP/150M.

There is some catching up to do for MAGIX here.

@Richard-N  Hi, can you go to your icon at the top, click it - My Profile, & fill in your Signature with your Vegas version, Windows version & system specs, full name of CPU, GPU, & amount of RAM etc. this will then show at the bottom of the comments 👍

@Richard-N @juan_rios Vegas does need a serious update but would you both share an unedited/unaltered sample file on Google Drive or on another sharing site?

Timeline preview will only work at draft low resolutions, and the Preview function from the Project Media window is so slow as to be unusable. It needs:

a) A better PC than MAGIX suggest in the spec and,

To simply play your footage 1050ti shouldn't be a bottle neck, and CPU is fine

b) An iGPU capable motherboard to work with HEVC footage.

It depends, certain 10bit HEVC footage doesn't playback on Vegas using Nvidia or AMD Gpu decoding, GPU decoding only works with Intel IGU. This is a Vegas limitation. We don't even know if that's the problem. You could upload a camera file.

c) Some serious work on the HEVC dynamic link libraries

I don't what that means, but HEVC on Vegas had poor playback 5 years ago, and nothing has changed today

I have tested various footage output from the Panasonic HC-X1500. The HEVC 2160-50p/Long GOP 200M cannot be edited with VP 19 due to system crashes and poor performance. In future I will stick with AVC and shoot in the device's .MOV AVC format at 2160p-50 420GOP/150M.

There is some catching up to do for MAGIX here.

Maybe in VP21, the amount of complaints against Vegas due to poor HEVC playback is rapidly increasing as HEVC increases in popularity, they have made no hint of any fix for VP20

HEVC 2160-50p/Long GOP 200M is a high data rate for HEVC- is the camera good enough to justify that? It probably overwhelms the cache Vegas has to work with for HEVC.

I think switching to AVC is a solid option and hopefully HEVC decoding will improve in VP 20+.

@Richard-N Was just looking at the manual update that accompanied the 1.3 firmware update and it mentions a codec mode of "All-I" on page 105... that should lose the long gops.

When the codec mode is [ALL-I], recording is with ALL-Intra.
In this method, compression is performed at the individual frame level, so the file size increases, but it is possible to reduce the degradation of image
quality during the editing process

Firmware update was 12 months ago. VP18/19 & Edius8 struggle with 'codec'. Davinci R17 handles it fairly well so there is future hope for magix. In the meantime use proxies via VP or HOS.

@todd-b wrote: <<c) Some serious work on the HEVC dynamic link libraries

I don't what that means, but HEVC on Vegas had poor playback 5 years ago, and nothing has changed today>>

Vegas is not one big executable. Dynamic Link Libraries (.dll) are code segments that are called as and when required. When Vegas freezes the crash report cites one or more *hevc*.dll files as the culprits for the crash.

I have uploaded a camera footage sample here:-https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofn10eoo70rzb93/20220716_131629.MP4?dl=0

I tried the clip in two consumer editors I have on my computer. One had to timeline render the clip (30seconds), the other played it back after a small stutter right away. Adding some crazy color corrections, the clip played back although it was stuttering, but it never stopped playing it back. I can live with what it was doing.

With MEP2022, it played back perfectly. Adding a NBFX Film preset, playback was smooth. I am not sure that HEVC comes with this version, but I know it did with Video Pro X12, so it might have inherited the HEVC working, but for MEP, I see it's a fee based activation. Oh, Movie Edit Pro has been renamed Movie Studio. I can't speak on Video Pro X 14, but it has the same "engine" as MEP.

Resolve 18 Studio used my GPU extensively playing back the file with a BCC+ filter applied.

And while VP19 on my computer spec'ed in my signature didn't play back the clip smoothly after adding a BCC+ filter, it did play back well enough in Preview (Auto) between 38-48fps, stuttering about every 20 frames. But I could live with it for editing, which is something I prefer to do, edit in Vegas. For me, editing with Vegas is quick and easy. MEP2022 is a consumer editor, but it works. Resolve 18 Studio (it's out of beta now) is great leveraging the GPU heavily.

@Reyfox .... Are you using the iGPU on motherboard?

@Richard-N my CPU doesn't contain an iGPU. I am using my over used and constantly abused RX480 8GB. See my signature below for my computer hardware.

 

I have uploaded a camera footage sample here:-https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofn10eoo70rzb93/20220716_131629.MP4?dl=0

Using the GPU decoder, that is unticking the legacy HEVC decoder, playback is abysmal, it's because Vegas can't use my GPU decoder as I guessed. Only intel IGPU decoding. I turned on legacy HEVC decoding, On preview/auto I get same playback as @Reyfox not stable, but frame rate usable.

I was more interested in the stuttering though, so I chose playback quality GOOD/AUTO to increase the stutter. I think it's related to the I frames, they look to be higher bandwidth than regular camera files, and the stutter syncs with the I frames (approximately) I wonder if it's taking extra time to decode and skips the rest of the frames. With enough CPU I would guess this file still would play smoothly BUT it plays smoothly without GPU decoder on other software so this is still about Vegas's lack of efficiency when comparing apples to apples, and also it's lack of GPU decoding.

I tried to sync up the GOP overlay with the vegas playback but was difficult due to playback lag, so it is only approximate.

This is an example of a HEVC file that plays back more easily without GPU decoding, it's I frames are what I"m more familiar to seeing. It is 8bit though, not 10bit.