Vegas Pro 15: MAGIX AVC/AAC codec not supporting 60 fps

Graviphoton wrote on 9/12/2017, 1:41 AM

I have tried to process some of my ShadowPlay 1080p/60fps recordings and I met with 2 problems with new MAGIX AVC/AAC codec:

  1. In render settings frame rate 60 fps is not accepted - such value is replaced with "23,976 (IVTC Film)".
  2. Enabled "Allow source to adjust frame rate" is ignored and 60 fps project is rendered as 30 fps.

I have not found any working combination of render settings resulting in desired frame rate. Encode mode does not matter both NV Encoder and Mainconcept AVC have the same outcome.

Because 60 fps is widely used frame rate nowadays I believe it is not feature but bug.

P.S. Old MainConcept AVC/AAC codec works in Vegas Pro 15 correctly.

Settings

Video Frame rate:    60 fps
Project Frame rate:    60 fps
Output file frame rate:    30 fps
Codec:        Magix AVC/AAC MP4
Frame rate:    59.94    (60 can not be set, value is replaced with "23,976 (IVTC Film)")
Allow source to adjust frame rate: yes
Encode mode:    NV Encoder

Input

General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp41/isom)
File size                                : 11.9 MiB
Duration                                 : 6 s 450 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 15.4 Mb/s
Recorded date                            : 2017
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 6 s 450 ms
Source duration                          : 6 s 450 ms
Bit rate                                 : 15.2 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 47.207 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 63.694 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.122
Stream size                              : 11.7 MiB (99%)
Source stream size                       : 11.7 MiB (99%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.470 System M
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
mdhd_Duration                            : 6450

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 6 s 321 ms
Source duration                          : 6 s 315 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 154 KiB (1%)
Source stream size                       : 154 KiB (1%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-05-16 17:39:16
mdhd_Duration                            : 6321

Output:

General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 5.97 MiB
Duration                                 : 6 s 433 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 7 782 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:22
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:22

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 6 s 433 ms
Bit rate                                 : 7 590 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.122
Stream size                              : 5.82 MiB (98%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:23
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:23

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 6 s 421 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 510 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 148 KiB (2%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:23
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-09-11 12:56:23

Comments

Nick Hope wrote on 9/18/2017, 1:03 AM

What language version of Vegas are you using? I think this may be a bug to do with usage of a comma as a decimal separator in some non-English versions.

andyc wrote on 9/20/2017, 9:13 AM

I'd also like to raise this as an issue, in previous versions it would allow a custom framerate to be entered but as of version 15 whatever you type into the combo box gets changed to one of the preset values.

This is quite a big issue as I sometimes need to work on 30 / 60 fps videos. The Sony AVC/MVC encoder does allow me to enter a custom framerate but does not seem to support outputting larger than 1920x1080

andyc wrote on 9/20/2017, 12:08 PM

Thanks Cornico, what version are you using? I'm on build 177, still not able to input a custom framerate on the same template. Have tried "60", "60.0", "60,0" etc. and they all get changed to 12 fps automatically.

Stiven wrote on 9/20/2017, 12:13 PM

I thought Sony sometimes has weird decision making on their products and software...

But this one is hilarious... What was on dev mind when he locked custom FPS settings?

Nick Hope wrote on 9/20/2017, 11:43 PM

There was previous discussion about this issue and related issues here: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/the-end-of-48fps--108514/

So there are a number of different issues here:

  1. For all language versions, the MAGIX AVC/AAC codec does not allow custom typed-in frame rates such as 30.000 and 60.000.
  2. For some language versions that use a comma as a decimal separator, I'm told frame rates get changed when changing tabs in the custom render settings dialog. For example in the German version, if you choose ProRes XQ, change the frame rate to 60, change to the audio tab, then change back to the video tab, the frame rate changes to 23.976. This doesn't happen in the English language version.
  3. If I type 48fps in the legacy MainConcept AVC encoder (enabled in internal preferences) it sticks in the template the but resulting file is 29.976fps.
  4. The Sony AVC/MVC codec cannot render a frame rate of 47.952. Old issue.

 

Enabled "Allow source to adjust frame rate" is ignored and 60 fps project is rendered as 30 fps.

Bearing in mind bug #1 above, this is sort of working as expected. From the Plug-In Help (which itself is bugged in VP14/15 but available in earlier versions):

"Allow source to adjust frame rate:
Select this check box if you want the plug-in to optimize the frame rate when encoding.
If the source frame rate is greater than the template's frame rate, the encoder will either use half of the source frame rate or the selected Frame rate setting (the lower value is used).
When the check box is cleared, the selected Frame rate setting will be used."

Anyway I reported bug #1: [Ticket#2017092117001498]

andyc wrote on 9/21/2017, 3:17 AM

Cornico yes very true, I was using the MAGIX encoder with "Mainconcept AVC" as the selected encode mode rather than the dedicated MainConcept encoder .

The MainConcept encoder when enabled is handling custom framerates correctly thanks, but as it's hidden they really should fix their default MAGIX encoder so it can handle custom framerates too.

 

set wrote on 9/21/2017, 5:01 PM

it seems you cannot set to 60, but only to 59.94 maximum...

and unable to set any other frame rate other than the listed.

Nick Hope wrote on 9/21/2017, 8:51 PM

I received a reply from Support regarding "MAGIX AVC/AAC codec does not allow custom typed-in frame rates such as 30.000 and 60.000":

"​This is a known issue which will be resolved in a future application update."

fr0sty wrote on 9/22/2017, 10:18 AM

I hope they include 23.97 and 24p render templates as well while they're at it. I could make my own, but it does seem like a big oversight to leave such a commonly used framerate out.

Robert Johnston wrote on 10/6/2017, 3:24 PM

The MAGIX AVC/AAC codec also has an issue with contant bitrates. The bitrate that is used is the Maximum Bitrate shown in the variable bitrate editable dropdown box. So if  you want a CONSTANT bitrate, you have to set it in the variable bitrate Maximum Bitrate box and then switch back to Constant bitrate. It doesn't matter what you select in the Constant bitrate box. If Magix fixes this, there will be a problem entering custom bitrates in the Constant bitrate box because as it stands, the constant listbox is not editable.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/6/2017, 9:18 PM

The MAGIX AVC/AAC codec also has an issue with contant bitrates. The bitrate that is used is the Maximum Bitrate shown in the variable bitrate editable dropdown box.

@Robert Johnston Not so here when I test 768,000 and 50,000,000bps in MainConcept Encode mode (which is the only one I have on my desktop PC). What Encode mode are you using?

Robert Johnston wrote on 10/6/2017, 11:56 PM

The MAGIX AVC/AAC codec also has an issue with contant bitrates. The bitrate that is used is the Maximum Bitrate shown in the variable bitrate editable dropdown box.

@Robert Johnston Not so here when I test 768,000 and 50,000,000bps in MainConcept Encode mode (which is the only one I have on my desktop PC). What Encode mode are you using?


Nick, I'm using the Intel QSV encoder.  

Nick Hope wrote on 10/7/2017, 3:17 AM
Nick, I'm using the Intel QSV encoder.  

I can try that when my laptop returns in a couple of days.

Anyone else care to confirm this issue, and also try what happens with NVENC?

phil-d wrote on 10/8/2017, 12:07 PM

Hi

Not with the computer now however I think you need to select a more generic Internet template before it allows other frame-rates. For example trying to modify a Blu-ray HD template doesn't allow higher frame-rates presumably because the template is trying to enforce to the Blu-ray specification. However starting from a more generic template like Internet (something) doesn't have a frame-rate restriction so you can enter 60fps in.

Regards

Phil

Nick Hope wrote on 10/8/2017, 10:34 PM
...However starting from a more generic template like Internet (something) doesn't have a frame-rate restriction so you can enter 60fps in.

Not so on my system. The frame rate changes to 12.000 (Half Film) when I enter 30 or 60. I tried a few templates.

Nick Hope wrote on 10/9/2017, 7:08 AM

The MAGIX AVC/AAC codec also has an issue with contant bitrates. The bitrate that is used is the Maximum Bitrate shown in the variable bitrate editable dropdown box. So if  you want a CONSTANT bitrate, you have to set it in the variable bitrate Maximum Bitrate box and then switch back to Constant bitrate. It doesn't matter what you select in the Constant bitrate box. If Magix fixes this, there will be a problem entering custom bitrates in the Constant bitrate box because as it stands, the constant listbox is not editable.

@Robert Johnston I tested this today with my laptop (Intel HD Graphics 4400) and agree with your findings. I submitted a support request [Ticket#2017100917006683] and also added it to the Known Issues list. Could someone please try this with NVENC?

Nick Hope wrote on 10/11/2017, 9:59 PM

I received a reply to my support ticket (re. QSV-mode constant bit rate wrongly using the max variable rate). It included this:

"This is escalated to DEV and QA as known issue which will be resolved in a future application update."

Still no idea if it happens with NVENC. Anyone?

fr0sty wrote on 10/11/2017, 10:29 PM

I am not able to select constant bitrate at all using NVENC. Even when I specify for NVENC to use CBR or CBR High Quality, the bitrate remains greyed out and only the variable bitrate boxes can be edited.

Nick Hope wrote on 11/30/2017, 9:34 AM

The original issue of custom frame rates is fixed in VP15 build 261. The maximum is 172fps. I tested it at 30, 60, 120 and 172fps. Thank you Magix 👍 [EDIT: This is for the "MainConcept AVC" Encode Mode only]

The additional issue with QSV whereby the bitrate was wrongly taken from the "Variable bit rate Maximum (bps)" setting, not the "Constant bit rate (bps)" setting is also fixed. @Robert Johnston

@fr0sty Can you select constant bitrate now when using NVENC?

BartBear wrote on 12/1/2017, 3:31 PM

The original issue of custom frame rates is fixed in VP15 build 261. The maximum is 172fps. I tested it at 30, 60, 120 and 172fps. Thank you Magix 👍

I have updated to 261. cleared all cache and set all default (ctr+shift on start) but still MAGIX AVC/AAC in NV Encoder gives me default choices (PAL / 2xPAL, NTSC,2xNTSC etc.) and any custom frame rates (like 60) switches to 23,976. Have you clean installed [EDIT - I made clean install after - no fix] or made any changes in reg files or so? How it can works for one and not for other?

Marco. wrote on 12/1/2017, 4:21 PM

Be sure to distinguish between hardware and software encoding here. Many hardware encoders only allow for a fixed set of frame rates. So while the MainConcept software version of Magix AVC should give all choices between 0.05 and 172 fps, QSV would not.

Nick Hope wrote on 12/1/2017, 9:52 PM

Can someone please test this with NVENC? Is it possible to type in custom frame rates like 30.000 or 60.000, or is it locked to the pre-defined frame rates like QSV is?

Nick Hope wrote on 12/2/2017, 1:14 AM

I did already here, on laptop, normal english installation update from 216 to 261

Oops, missed that. Thanks 👍

Finding a list of the AVC frame rates supported by QSV and NVENC is not an easy task. I wonder what frame rates 3rd party encoders like FFmpeg, Handbrake, TMPGenc, Staxrip etc. are limited to in QSV/NVENC/VCE modes.

andyc wrote on 12/16/2017, 6:06 AM

Marco why would hardware encoders have a fixed framerate? It's not like it's recording real-time, the framerate is just metadata on the video file and the frames are sent from Vegas to the encoder as fast as it can encode them.

Also allowing the source to adjust frame rates does allow for some arbitrary framerates on hardware encoders.