Vegas Pro 17: first impressions ?

Comments

bvideo wrote on 8/6/2019, 5:08 PM

Haven't been able to try many new things. I am getting frequent hangs. Usually when pressing play or spacebar or maybe clicking a new spot on the timeline after some edit on a crop/pan or f/x. These are projects from v16, and v16 was very well behaved. I have only Intel for GPU. (I7 8700K). Also, this is just the v17 demo.

marc-s wrote on 8/6/2019, 5:29 PM

I'd say the new color correction panel is a big and long needed improvement to Vegas. I will probably wait to try until they do some service releases since early versions usually have lots of issues to work out. That said... the number of features in this release seem more like the good old days of Vegas and a good sign for the future of the product. Now if they could just make a functional titler...

VEGASHeman wrote on 8/6/2019, 7:52 PM

@Former user: As both fr0sty and Marco have mentioned, the new lossless encoder is NVIDIA specific, and is available as new presets for the NVENC based templates in either Magix AVC/AAC or Magix HEVC/AAC render formats (accessible via the "Customize Template" button for those templates). Both "Lossless" and "Lossless - High Performance" presets are available, though some presets may not work on older GPUs (we have had good luck with "Lossless - High Performance" for both AVC and HEVC on the Pascal based cards). Once you are done rendering, you can verify the "Format Profile" using MediaInfo - it should show up as a "High 4:4:4" profile for AVC Lossless (HEVC Lossless profiles do not indicate this, unfortunately). You can play these files back in VEGAS, but you should set the Hardware Decoder to NVDEC (via Preferences -> FileIO) as we utilize the NVIDIA hardware for both encoding and decoding these files; using the default Intel QSV or the software decoder may show incorrect results.

fr0sty wrote on 8/6/2019, 8:44 PM

Haven't been able to try many new things. I am getting frequent hangs. Usually when pressing play or spacebar or maybe clicking a new spot on the timeline after some edit on a crop/pan or f/x. These are projects from v16, and v16 was very well behaved. I have only Intel for GPU. (I7 8700K). Also, this is just the v17 demo.

Try to go into preferences and disable or reduce the number of timeline thumbnails. I had this issue as well and that fixed it.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

gabgilson wrote on 8/7/2019, 1:47 AM

I've given up and gone back to VP16 edit. My PC is AMD 1700 + 1060ti + 32gb RAM. Tried working on wedding edit timelines created in VP16 and then resaved in VP17. Mix of 4k and 60p Sony A7iii clips. Timeline took much longer to open than in VP16 (even after several saves) and became much more unstable than VP16 has ever been (which is fairly unstable). It crashed continuosly. I don't have time to bug fix now, as I have delivery deadlines. So I've gone back to VP16. Am I missing a setting for the new HW acceleration? Puzzled why it should take longer to load the timeline - as if there's a memory problem somewhere.

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 1:51 AM

Sounds like the bug I described above. Disable thumbnail display on the timeline. that will get you going until they can patch the bug. Also, you can check your hardware accel in the file i/o tab of preferences. Make sure it is using NVdec if you have a nvidia GPU. Vegas isn't actually crashing, it just hangs for extremely long periods of time when having to redraw thumbnails in complex projects where there's a lot of them.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/7/2019, 1:56 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

gabgilson wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:06 AM

@VEGASHeman  Hi. You mention changing the File IO setting in VP17 to the NVDEC option. Would that effect playback of clips from a Sony camera (I haven't re-encoded the clips, just trying to play them in the timeline)? I have INTEL 1060ti GPU. Just trying it now, and it seems I can finally play 4k clips on the timeline with no lag when it moves from clip to clip - that would be wonderful. But it's very unstable. It keeps turning off my Film Convert plugin, so I lose all the colour correction and then it crashes. Hopeless for a commercial edit. But it's a start!

gabgilson wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:09 AM

@fr0sty  Thanks so much for replying and your expert info - very helpful. Yes, just trying the thumbnail turn off and the new NVDEC option (I have Intel 1060ti). Thumbnails off definitely speeds up the load time and hang time. The NVDEC option seems to allow non laggy playback of 4k clips which would be amazing, but it keeps turning off my plugins (I use Film Convert) and then crashing. I'll try a PC restart and have another go...

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:13 AM

Let us know how that turns out.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

michael-thompson wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:14 AM

I think that this is the best version of Vegas Pro so far, and I have had no crashes, although I have not been working on a large project with it, yet. One thing I would like to see happen is to be able to move the very excellent Color Grading Panel to a different screen so that it does not mask the timeline. I have tried to find a way of doing it, to no avail. Perhaps this is something that could be fixed in an update? I know that I am not the only one who would like that.

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:14 AM

If you need to get a commercial edit out in the mean time, just do your own grade with the new color grading panel.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

karma17 wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:20 AM

I like V17 a lot but it does seem there's a few bugs to get through. I was working on a project tonight and it kept crashing on me, which is usually a rare occurrence for me. It resolved when I lowered the Preview Monitor Quality to Preview, Half. And after that, everything seemed fine. I'm most excited about the unified color grading, screen capture, and some of the new effects like Mesh Warp, Warp Flow, and improved slow motion. And I'm looking forward to seeing if Vegas Post is bundled or can be a free-standing add-on. If I were working on a critical project, I might consider using V16 at least until the next build of V17 comes out. There's no doubt in my mind that v17 will be one of the best versions of Vegas Pro ever once the bugs are taken care of.

gabgilson wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:28 AM

@fr0sty  Tried turning off fx on all video tracks (inc Film Convert) but same problem. Plays great for about 30s - no lag on 4k clips, great - but then I get just a red screen in the preview window and no video. Start and stop doesn't bring it back, just red screen. Audio still playing OK. But then it crashes after another 30s.

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 2:47 AM

Have you updated to the latest creator (not game ready) driver from nvidia?

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Former user wrote on 8/7/2019, 3:26 AM

@Former user: As both fr0sty and Marco have mentioned, the new lossless encoder is NVIDIA specific, and is available as new presets for the NVENC based templates in either Magix AVC/AAC or Magix HEVC/AAC render formats (accessible via the "Customize Template" button for those templates). Both "Lossless" and "Lossless - High Performance" presets are available, though some presets may not work on older GPUs (we have had good luck with "Lossless - High Performance" for both AVC and HEVC on the Pascal based cards). Once you are done rendering, you can verify the "Format Profile" using MediaInfo - it should show up as a "High 4:4:4" profile for AVC Lossless (HEVC Lossless profiles do not indicate this, unfortunately). You can play these files back in VEGAS, but you should set the Hardware Decoder to NVDEC (via Preferences -> FileIO) as we utilize the NVIDIA hardware for both encoding and decoding these files; using the default Intel QSV or the software decoder may show incorrect results.

@VEGASHeman Thanks for the heads up. A really great addition, and so fast.

set the Hardware Decoder to NVDEC (via Preferences -> FileIO)” I had managed that but wasn’t sure where to find it, checked out Magix Intermediates etc. Anyway now we know.

”it should show up as a "High 4:4:4" profile for AVC Lossless (HEVC Lossless profiles do not indicate this, unfortunately)” Yes as you say, same here.

So far tested this new lossless codec with GTX 1070 on my laptop, using a 10s UHD 25fps test clip, straight from camera. Only managed to render to FHD, all attempts to render to UHD give a zero byte file. I’ll check this out later with my PC, has an RTX 2080 Ti so UHD may be ok with that.

One other thing I noticed, near the very end of the FHD h264 clip playback, using VLC, an artefact is present, but not in the hevc rendered clip. I’ll check this out later as well, i.e. load the FHD clip into VP and see whether it’s just a playback artefact, or is really there.

Ok tested, and its really there … but wait ...

After rendering the same UHD 10s clip to FHD (h264 & hevc) again there are no artefacts, maybe graphics driver update fixed that, weird. Artefacts still on 27s clip. PC and laptop are now using the latest Nvidia creative drivers.

When I used a different 27s FHD source file rendered out to FHD, (h264) I get a zero byte file.

When I used a different 27s FHD source file rendered out to FHD, (hevc) I get artefacts.

 

Ok, tested on PC. The good news is there are no artefacts on the h264 or hevc FHD lossless renders.

The bad news is the PC and laptop simply render out zero byte files when attempting to render to UHD.

I'll start a new thread for this new Magix Intermediate, see what other users find also.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp-17-new-lossless-intermediate-for-avc-and-hevc-zero-byte-uhd-rende--116546/#ca725138

Summary of laptop and PC results ...

gabgilson wrote on 8/7/2019, 3:54 PM

Have you updated to the latest creator (not game ready) driver from nvidia?


@fr0sty I think the discussion has moved on, but thought I'd update this for info (and thanks again for your help). Installed studio drivers for my 1060ti and was still getting the same problem of film convert turning off by itself and playback crashing. So I reduced dynamic RAM preview to 400 (from 1600) and that seems to fix it. So I can (fingers crossed) now get non laggy 4k playback in the timeline for Sony A7 clips. Yay vegas 17!! My PC has 32gb so I don't understand why the dynamic RAM would affect it, poss there's a problem with my RAM, or it's doing some heavy caching in the background.

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 4:01 PM

Dyanmic RAM has always been a bit funny in Vegas and it's one area that I think the dev team needs to focus a lot of attention on overhauling. It seems to cause more problems than anything, and I don't see why Vegas can't just adjust dynamic ram... dynamically. As needed. I have 64GB, no reason to cap it as Vegas never uses all of that, so I should have a setting that lets me tell Vegas to do the managing on its own.

zdogg wrote on 8/7/2019, 4:41 PM

I am a fan boy, loyal, user. I am also tired of the piss poor GUI implementation. It persists, it NEVER gets better. I compose, do a lot of compositing type moves on the timeline and stack quite a few tracks sometimes.

NOW the implementation of the NESTED projects may solve some of my situations,

but waiting for the timeline to scroll vertically (it does sometimes smooth, but not right away, too often jerky as hell, sometimes with a lag, one that jumps you five tracks beyond where you wanted to go, because your scrolling as it is lagging, then jumping, BASTA!!-- and I have a boffo machine 64 Megs of ECC RAM, 6 core Xeon, NVidea Quatro 2000, Black Magic cards as well, nice gear). I get tired of explaining the complete and utter frustration of the program not saving your position when you close the program (seems like a simple thing) so you don't have to go find where you were just working.....(constant crashes make that more aggravating still) no rubber band action on envelopes, time line jump to the beggining if you want to double click somewhere, (like add a node) and the f'g project jumps to the beginning....stff like this drives me crazy, like the $65 Android phone I bought a Fry's that has all the features of the i phone, but NONE of the smoothness. ( I now have an iphone)...

I tried the new color wheels. Same thing, clunki implementation, with the scopes on top no room to see my tracks, I move the scopes off to a second monitor,,....fine, but do you think it would remember, for the next time...??? Hardly. This (Vegas) is like the cheap android, vs. iphone (Resolve)....I mean, I like the idea, but I could get faster results with the tried and try color corrector and secondary...... this is just making me mad....and again, I AM a fanboy.

fr0sty wrote on 8/7/2019, 5:08 PM

and just like an most apple products, resolve expects you to use their overpriced hardware to do what Vegas (and most other NLE's) can do on any much cheaper hardware, and just like iphone, it lacks many of the features Vegas has, such as scripting, certain audio features, storyboarding, ease of use/fast workflow, etc.

There is no perfect NLE (just like there is no perfect phone).

Some good suggestions in there, none the less.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/7/2019, 5:15 PM, changed a total of 5 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Ralf wrote on 8/7/2019, 5:49 PM

[...] I get tired of explaining the complete and utter frustration of the program not saving your position when you close the program (seems like a simple thing) so you don't have to go find where you were just working.....[...]

Oh man, would that be a time saver or what. I have about a dozen projects on the go at any one time and having the program open where I left off in any particular project? The amount of time I spend re-orienting myself to a particular project makes me weep for the time flying away... I would LOVE Vegas to save project state upon close (even an option setting)!

zdogg wrote on 8/7/2019, 6:00 PM

and just like an most apple products, resolve expects you to use their overpriced hardware to do what Vegas (and most other NLE's) can do on any much cheaper hardware, and just like iphone, it lacks many of the features Vegas has, such as scripting, certain audio features, storyboarding, ease of use/fast workflow, etc.

There is no perfect NLE (just like there is no perfect phone).

Some good suggestions in there, none the less.

Resolve did make me go buy a hundred dollar BM card. BFD....

If I thought it was worth my time, I'd screen record some of this stuff, like the color wheels that won't just follow my mouse moves, but lag, and then jump, same with the new color curves....so, just what IS the point if you can't get WYSIWYG performance on these fine adjustment interfaces.....I don't get it. I know developers are under the gun to get out the new program version, and I used to have these discussions with Magix before in their audio offerings......

... marketing would say to development, "we need x number of 'bells and whistles' or we're not making any sales this year" and so this dog and pony show ensues...and why I am a proponent of 'subscriptions' because that would, at least at first glance, seem to mitigate against coming on with "features" and forget about the "meat and potatoes."

marc-s wrote on 8/7/2019, 6:08 PM

"and just like an most apple products, resolve expects you to use their overpriced hardware to do what Vegas (and most other NLE's) can do on any much cheaper hardware, "

I'm going to push back on this one:

1. Since Vegas 15 and Windows 10 the preview to secondary monitor has been totally screwed up (at least with AMD cards) and flashes to black constantly when accessing certain panels during the editing process making it almost unusable. Attempts to get tech support to fix this has been fruitless as usual.

2. I paid $300 for Resolve 14 Studio. Since that time I have been upgraded to Version 15 and soon version 16 absolutely free. In fact Since purchasing Resolve at version 7 they have NEVER charged for upgrades and the amount of new features and fine-tuning they add to every release is mind boggling.

3. I paid $195 for a 4k PCI preview card that works flawlessly with my 42" Panasonic Plasma monitor and can be calibrated for fairly accurate color correction. In fact I would love to be able to use this with Vegas but it does not work unfortunately as they seem to have little interest in support external cards.

So as you can see $195 is far from overpriced especially considering all of the free software upgrades. Many of us have asked for preview to secondary monitor feature in Resolve but it seems to be a either be a limitation based on the way Resolve is designed or a marketing decision. Either way the company gives way more than they ask as I would happily pay for the amazing upgrades. That said I'm happy to see Vegas improving and hope it continues as competition is always good and as a user since ver. 3 I still enjoy using it for certain tasks.

NightHawkInLight wrote on 8/7/2019, 6:09 PM

Those if you that have got the slow motion plugin working correctly, can you explain your process? For the life of me I can't figure out how to get it to generate enough frames to compensate for a velocity reduction. I noted a list of questions and failed attempts in this post which has already been buried: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/figuring-out-the-slow-motion-plugin--116558/

Marco. wrote on 8/7/2019, 6:18 PM

@NightHawkInLight
Better let's discuss in that separate post. I just responded there.