@dafek If you have a problem with Frosty, then address it with him in a direct message and not in someone else's thread.

@dafek

I think you have stated in 7/2022, that you will churn to Resolve.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-became-completely-unusable--136507/?page=2#ca852879

What is ok, that is up to you only. But I wonder, why you still waste your time with Vegas? Why do you announce again, that you will purchase Resolve? Do it …

Beside that, we have also facts. And one fact is, that the renewal of the video engine is an ongoing process. Means, for some types of footage we see performance improvements in the playback/decoding behavior in the update that will be published on Monday. For other formats not yet.

But since that update has not been published yet - how can you say that frosty lies? While you do not have access to this upgrade up to now - he has. And he has posted a video about his test. Have you seen it?

So your statement seems to be not fact based really. So I suggest you either to test the upcoming update by yourself - and discuss things based on facts but not emotions. Or you use Resolve and are happy with your software choice. Fine. But never-ever blame other guys to be a liar. This will not be acceped here.

@dafek  ... you may well disagree with fr0sty's comments, but offended - really?

From the Cambridge dictionary (in the same vein as other dictionaries). offended means:

• upset and angry, often because someone has been rude

And from another source:

• feeling or expressing hurt, indignation, or irritation because of a perceived wrong or insult:

frosty has provided you with an evidence-based opinion based on his experience without any personal insult or rudeness to you. You are totally entitled to disagree with that opinion but to portray that opinion - with which you disagree ("I am offended") - as a personal insult or rudeness to you is actually a demonstration of you being rude and insulting to fr0sty. By all means disagree - but please don't get personal.

My comment -

This is what your video looks like on my 32"UHD screen, it's hard to see what's going on.

Your reply -

Yeah, I have an ultrawide monitor, so it doesn't fill a 16:9 screen.

 

@fr0sty Yep I understand it doesn't fill the screen but it's the quality of the image I was ref to, really blurred & not worth watching (with respect)

This is the second vid you posted, there must be something you can do to improve this?

@Former user this should do better... I forgot I'd set a very low bitrate for a client that needed small files recently. I also set the monitor back to 1080p.

Here, the performance difference is even more, with 21 getting around 10fps on average, and 20 getting below 1fps in many cases. Also notice, the framerate counter doesn't keep up with the actual framerate being displayed in 21 update 3, many times I'll be getting somewhat-smooth playback, but the counter will show something like 0.5fps. Notice how the pauses between scene skips are much less, transitions are much more smooth... it's a night and day difference. Again, this is also being done in 32 bit HDR mode, as 8 bit played back at full speed (albeit with more stutters) in 20 as well, so I wanted something that stressed the playback engine more to highlight the differences. Also, to reiterate, this is just step one of a multi-step rewrite of the video engine that will continue well into VEGAS 22 and beyond.

The video is still kinda blurry, it's getting re-compressed by the forum. Going to try youtube.

@fr0sty Thanks, 16:9 does fill my screen but is still blurred to much.

This is a 3840x2160 30p screen capture using Nvidia Geforce & then re-rendered using Magix AVC default settings, ( I find orig Geforce recordings upload to the forum slower then if it gets re-rendered with Vegas, i do this for speed, nothing to do with quality,)

After this has uploaded I'll upload a pic of how it looks when I open it from this comment.

-----------

This is that pic of my video, clear as day.

I have 2 monitors, this is what your vid looks like on my second 24" monitor, still blurry.

Just out of interest this is my vid re-rendered at 1920x1080, again I'll post a pic of how the video looks when played on my 32" screen from the forum.

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This is that 1920x1080 on my 32" screen, a bit blurrier than the 3840x2160 i posted above as expected but still readable.

I updated OBS and it all went to crap... I think I got it sorted now, @Former user

Keep in mind the FPS counter isn't reporting accurate numbers in 21, as is obvious by looking at how smoothly the preview is playing back.

Here's an ACTUAL comparison of VEGAS 20 vs. VEGAS 21 Update 3's decoding capabilities.

Test conditions:

Footage: 150mbps AVC 3840x2160 29.97fps 10 bit 4:2:2 VLOG shot by Panasonic S1

Test System: Ryzen 7 1800x CPU (old, I built this system in 2017), 64GB DDR4 RAM, Windows 10, RTX 3090 GPU

Project Settings: UHD 3840x2160, 29.97fps, HDR10 Mode On (32 bit full range) in order to give it a stress test.

Results: 0.3-2fps, long pauses if you click around on the timeline as it plays, transitions make the framerate crash lower in VEGAS 20. Uneditable. A slideshow.

More than 10fps right off the jump (even if the fps counter isn't reporting it accurate at first, you can see that playback speed remains constant), clicking around to different points on the timeline doesn't crash the framerate, transitions don't slow things down, and it improves as it buffers in VEGAS 21. Editable.

A more than 4X speed improvement. Keep in mind this is just the first step of the planned video engine updates, more will be coming in future versions, but even with this, I can edit my AVC 10 bit VLOG 4:2:2 UHD footage just fine at full speed in 8 bit mode, and can even do so in HDR10 mode at and it still isn't reduced to just being a slideshow like it used to in previous versions of VEGAS. Keep in mind it's recommended (when using 10+ bit footage) that we do our cutting in 8 bit mode, and then switch it to 32 bit mode to do color grading and rendering... but I don't really have to do that anymore, 32 bit mode plays back smooth enough that, for most projects, I will probably just do my cutting in 32 bit mode as well.

On my system, both versions did pretty good in 8 bit mode, both got to full 29.97fps pretty quickly and the framerate improvements were harder to spot as a result, so I used 32 bit full range to give more of a stress test and highlight the differences.

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard from others on the beta team that HEVC also got similar upgrades.

@fr0sty Thanks that's a lot better 👍

The first step towards overhauling VEGAS' video engine... Most flavors of AVC and HEVC now decode much faster on most hardware. I personally went from decoding in the single digit framerates for 10 bit 4:2:2 AVC from my panasonic S1's to real time, and even keep editable framerates in 32 bit HDR mode! It's a game-changer for me.
 

Thats wonderful news. As i too use 10bit 4:2:2 AVC from Panasonic GH6,which i believe is the same as S1 as format, i would like to ask you if you have experienced the following problems and if the new update solves them or not yet. I don't have so much problem on framerates as i mostly work 1080 4:2:2, and at that i have 50p all the time real time without effects, and when i use 4k i also proxy.

My problem is that when i make cuts on the events, there is a random stuttering when the playhead moves from one event to the next, that does not happen if the events have not been yet cut.

And the most serious one is that the specific file type randomly crashes vegas sometime multiple times within a day and some none. the specific problem happens only with gh6 4:2:2 avc files. when i use other camera video vegas does not crash ( i have also enabled legacy AVC [ compoundplug] as the [so4compoundplug] crashes vegas all the time, which i believe is the main issue as 4:2:2 avc decodes with [so4compoundplug] even when i have turned it off).

@Andreas-T Please take a look at the video I posted above, the stuttering after making cuts or moving the play head from one event to another has been dramatically reduced. Keep in mind the above video is also in 32 bit full range mode, in 8 bit the playback is even faster.

You're setting unrealistic expectations. This isn't "AI auto green screen". This is "gets you most of the way to a clean mask, with a little manual intervention required to get the rest of the way there".

 

I do not think this is unrealistic. I presume that the end goal is supposed to be just that, AI auto green screen. Otherwise I don't really see the point if it's just another half baked feature tied to fiddly workarounds to get a so-so result. We live in times of incredible CPU and GPU performance, CGI, AI, hyperrealistic computer games etc. In that context, I simply don't understand why it's so complex to define and distinguish differences in luma or color of pixels or train AI to recognize or analyze and remember object borders or lines.
I admit this is merely a more or less ignorant outsider / consumer viewpoint, but as a consumer of such software, that's what I expect.

There currently does not exist any AI out there capable of doing that, it's a lot more complex than you might think. Every AI masking tool has its flaws, no matter the platform... but most of them get you close enough that it shaves hours off of the process of manually masking out the person or object, so it is still quite useful to the average person's workflow.

While it is the end goal, we're not quite there yet.

For this tool to be usable it needs to be at "Runway AI, Inc." level.
The most important thing is to be able to correct frames where the mask was incorrect, just like we do with motion tracking

And that's exactly what it already does.

@fr0sty The difference is huge. Thank you for the video.

I just hopped that Vegas Team could give extra Trial after huge updates within Vegas annual cycle, like this one, cause i have already used 21 Trial, and i need to check if crashes have gone in my specific system. The happy news is 22 is around the corner so i'll have to wait a little bit longer.

The difference is huge. Thank you for the video.

I just hopped that Vegas Team could give extra Trial after huge updates within Vegas annual cycle, like this one, cause i have already used 21 Trial, and i need to check if crashes have gone in my specific system. The happy news is 22 is around the corner so i'll have to wait a little bit longer.

That's a really good idea for a second trial. This update is so big it sounds like it's almost a new version release!

That's a really good idea for a second trial. This update is so big it sounds like it's almost a new version release!

That was always the promise, not hold things for the next paid release, looks like they're delivering.

The current upgrade perpetual licence for edit is $99/£99 which changes tomorrow. In the past I have bought upgrade to current product and get next version free. I wonder if that might be on offer?

Looking forward to giving the update a good workout. Especially working with 10bit 4:2:2, which I shoot a lot of with Panasonic.

Looks like a lot of work went into this update. I am sure that things will improve going forward. I don't expect "perfection" in everything all at once. I know that things are ongoing and improving. So I will post what issues I have and if I am doing things "right".

One thing I would like to see, more extensive tutorials on these new features? Any place where they can be watched?

Great work Vegas Devs!

Decided to go for the upgrade as I have never seen an upgrade below $99/£99. Works great and keeps frame rate up on HEVC Iphone footage compared to V20. I guess the mxcompoundplug is the new So4compoundplug?

Well done development team well worth the wait.

Decided to go for the upgrade as I have never seen an upgrade below $99/£99. Works great and keeps frame rate up on HEVC Iphone footage compared to V20. I guess the mxcompoundplug is the new So4compoundplug?

Well done development team well worth the wait.

Fine that it works great for you.

The mxconpoundplug is the new decoder, used now for some (not for all) types of footages. It is one part of the partly reworked video enginee.

My main footage is Sony XAVCS and Iphone, default seems to be the new mxcompundplug.