Vegas Replaced the footage

Comments

PeterDuke wrote on 8/12/2011, 6:15 PM
My project was labeled Germany13. I wondered whether the suffix number had something to do with it.
i am erikd wrote on 8/12/2011, 9:34 PM
"And speaking of small projects it looks like Jerry's only has two clips in it!"

This is important I feel. Maybe this project file and media should be sent to SCS for testing. It seems it would be easier to troubleshoot a small project.

Erik
Steve Mann wrote on 8/12/2011, 9:46 PM
"It seems it would be easier to troubleshoot a small project."

Wouldn't do them any good if they can't reproduce the problem.

"Today I did some more experimenting, but I am now unable to repeat the problem."

Now maybe you will appreciate the conundrum that SCS finds itself in. They can't fix what they can't break.

But I do agree that some response from SCS to the group would be nice.
PeterDuke wrote on 8/13/2011, 2:27 AM
More information:

Reboot PC
Start Vegas
Load corrupt edited project
Replace with uncorrupt unedited project
Edit and SaveAs
Replace with edited project -> corrupt

Reboot PC
Start Vegas
Load uncorrupt unedited project
Edit and SaveAs
Replace with edited project -> not corrupt

I have done this several times with the same outcome, so I am quietly confident it will happen again tomorrow.

When I thought yesterday that I was repeating the corruption, it looks like all I was doing was reloading cached corrupt pointers to the source events.
i am erikd wrote on 8/13/2011, 3:46 AM
"Wouldn't do them any good if they can't reproduce the problem."

SCS has said in the past that they believe this problem is related to large projects where files are copied from one open instance of Vegas to another open instance of Vegas. If Peter's project can show that neither of these things happened with his small project then it is potentially an important step in eliminating wrong ideas about how to solve the problem.

Erik
PeterDuke wrote on 8/13/2011, 4:05 AM
Yesterday, prior to opening the corrupted project, I had indeed been copying and pasting between two instances of Vegas. I don't remember now whether the other instance was opened when I first discovered the corruption because I intended to prune it severely before adding to the mix, in view of the likelihood of corrupting the main project.
Randy Brown wrote on 8/13/2011, 6:22 AM
My project was labeled Germany13. I wondered whether the suffix number had something to do with it.

Looking for similarities in workflow here...I always do a "save as" with incremental numbers at end and often do rough cuts by copy/pasting into another instance of VP10.
Jerry, do you recall if you were doing either of the above in your workflow?
amendegw wrote on 8/13/2011, 6:45 AM
"Looking for similarities in workflow here...I always do a "save as" with incremental numbers at end and often do rough cuts by copy/pasting into another instance of VP10. Jerry, do you recall if you were doing either of the above in your workflow?"Nope, the first project is named oldguy.veg, the second project is named tiger.veg. I did not copy/paste between projects. There is a possiblity I may have had both projects open at the same time - can't remember.

...Jerry

System Model:     Alienware M18 R1
System:           Windows 11 Pro
Processor:        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13980HX, 2200 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 32 Logical Processor(s)

Installed Memory: 64.0 GB
Display Adapter:  NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU (16GB), Nvidia Studio Driver 566.14 Nov 2024
Overclock Off

Display:          1920x1200 240 hertz
Storage (8TB Total):
    OS Drive:       NVMe KIOXIA 4096GB
        Data Drive:     NVMe Samsung SSD 990 PRO 4TB
        Data Drive:     Glyph Blackbox Pro 14TB

Vegas Pro 22 Build 194

Cameras:
Canon R5 Mark II
Canon R3
Sony A9

Steve Mann wrote on 8/13/2011, 9:01 AM
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried a hard reset of all preferences?
amendegw wrote on 8/13/2011, 9:12 AM
"Out of curiosity, has anyone tried a hard reset of all preferences?"I didn't do a preference reset, but I just rebuilt my computer about two weeks ago (obviously, that included a Vegas re-install). The only preference I changed (briefly) is the "Dynamic Ram Preview max (MB)" - which I changed to 500MB, I then immediately restored it to 350MB by clicking the "Default All" button on the "Video" tab. Everything is out-of-the-box standard.

...Jerry

System Model:     Alienware M18 R1
System:           Windows 11 Pro
Processor:        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13980HX, 2200 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 32 Logical Processor(s)

Installed Memory: 64.0 GB
Display Adapter:  NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU (16GB), Nvidia Studio Driver 566.14 Nov 2024
Overclock Off

Display:          1920x1200 240 hertz
Storage (8TB Total):
    OS Drive:       NVMe KIOXIA 4096GB
        Data Drive:     NVMe Samsung SSD 990 PRO 4TB
        Data Drive:     Glyph Blackbox Pro 14TB

Vegas Pro 22 Build 194

Cameras:
Canon R5 Mark II
Canon R3
Sony A9

Don Sweger wrote on 8/15/2011, 12:55 PM
SCS was in fact able to see the problem with my project files, but they haven't been able to identify the cause.

The "Save As" idea may be on to something. In my case, I did do a "Save As" with a new name to make some new edits without risking the finished edit. However, thinking back, the bug is visible in both the original project and the new "Save As" project.


PeterDuke wrote on 8/15/2011, 5:33 PM
You have to do a SaveAs before corruption occurs, but unfortunately a corrupted project may look OK when you do the SaveAs (see my tests above). The only thing you can do is do a SaveAs often and check the project next time you load it. The caching issue is also a worry because you may get a different result after a reboot.
Randy Brown wrote on 8/30/2011, 4:41 PM
ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!
I just came here to see if there's any news...WTF SCS????!!!!!
It just happened to me again and I cant find the ****ing clip it replaced.
BTW, I do a save-as often ...this is simply unacceptable and total BULL****!
MUTTLEY wrote on 8/30/2011, 5:30 PM

I feel your pain Randy, had to do about four hours worth of fixing a project yesterday after getting bit by this, a good amount of audio clips in an hour long project got replaced by other randomness. I had made a LOT of edits in between versions though and scratched my head for a good while trying to think of a way to not loose everything I had done since the last time I had saved under a different file name. I really do try to change the file name fairly often as in "project veg 1, project veg 2" but its not as easy in practice to do so as it is on paper. Problem is I couldn't just go back to the last version because there's no way I could remember everything I had tweaked/fixed/changed.

What I ended up doing was having the old version and the new version open at the same time, finding where it had swapped the audio in the newest version, switching to the old version, copying that audio, going back to the new version, deleting the bad audio, pasting the new audio. Less than idea but really didn't have much of an option at that point.

No conciliation to you I'm sure, only empathizing after yesterdays nightmare.

- Ray
Underground Planet
Randy Brown wrote on 8/30/2011, 5:37 PM
Thanks Ray, much appreciated...I don't think I've lost that much work before...you're certainly taking it better than I....man I just hope the issue is resolved before long.
Thanks again,
Randy
altarvic wrote on 8/30/2011, 10:35 PM
Has anyone sent his "broken" project to SCS for analysis? If they can not reproduce the bug, help them.
johnmeyer wrote on 8/30/2011, 11:16 PM
For those of you who have experienced the bug, perhaps you could answer the following questions:

1. Do you have Media Manger installed and enabled?
2. Does your project use any subclips?
3. Are any of your media files contained on an external drive or network?
4. In the Options -> Preferences -> General tab are the following checked, or unchecked:
a. "Close media files when not the active application"
b. "Create project file backups"
c. "Enable autosave"
5. Are you using the 64-bit version of Vegas?
6. Do you have your internal hard drives set so that they spin down if not used for a period of time?
7. Are you using Windows 7?

This obviously is not a Windows problem because it is application specific. It appears that Vegas is getting the wrong file handle. My hypothesis (uninformed by anything other than this thread and a little computer experience) is that there is some sort of race or timing condition where Vegas asks the file system for something, but it gets confused when there is a delay in satisfying this request This could happen (perhaps) from an intermittent network or external drive connection, or because a drive spun down.

If I were working on something critical, and had experienced this problem here's what I'd do in order to try to reduce the possibility of the problem recurring. Please realize that these suggestions may have nothing to do with what is finally found to be the real problem, but they just might help, and they won't hurt anything.

1. Uncheck the "Close media files when not the active application" option in Preferences mention above. I like this feature because it lets me edit media and then have those edits show up in Vegas without first having to close the project. However, over the years, I have seen all sorts of strange things happen with this feature. If this problem has a simple workaround, my money is that this would be it.

2. Don't let your drives spin down. I doubt this is the problem, but I'd temporarily change this setting, just to see what happens.

3. Close Vegas and clear out all files in your Windows TEMP folder. You'll find that when Vegas is running that it creates various "Vegas Undo Buffer 1.tmp" files. If these get corrupt or don't get deleted, something bad might happen.

4. If you don't use Media Manager, disable it. I've never installed it because it is such a bloated mess, so I have no idea exactly how it interacts with Vegas. I'll admit that this idea is pretty weak and isn't worth doing if it is going to cause any problems with your computer or your workflow.

The fact that this has been reported in Vegas 9 means that it may be something that has been around for awhile. It will be interesting to see the answers to the above questions. Perhaps it is only something that happens in the 64-bit version.

It is amazing, however, how bugs will sometimes surface that have been around for a long time. I just ran into one, which I haven't yet reported to Sony. It turns out that if you have one large event on a timeline, and you group it with a bunch of small events on the timeline below it, if you then click on the big event, and then paste its attributes to another event, the fX which get copied are the fX from one of the little events in the group and not from the main event. So, the point is that sometimes these new bugs aren't necessarily new. Perhaps this one has been lurking for awhile.

[edit] Another thing I would recommend doing is to run CHKDSK on your main drive and on the drive which contains your Windows TEMP folder (if that is a drive other than C:). I just got finished restoring a computer two days ago which had several corrupted files that resulted when the user kept putting the laptop in standby even though the battery was stone-cold dead. This resulted in several corrupt files, including one in the Windows System32 folder, thus rendering the computer inoperable. That particular problem was so severe that I had to restore the C: drive from an image backup, but in other similar cases, CHKDSK has fixed the problem.
PeterDuke wrote on 8/31/2011, 12:21 AM
1. Do you have Media Manger installed and enabled? No
2. Does your project use any subclips? No
3. Are any of your media files contained on an external drive or network? No
4. In the Options -> Preferences -> General tab are the following checked, or unchecked:
a. "Close media files when not the active application" Yes
b. "Create project file backups" Where is that?
c. "Enable autosave" Yes
5. Are you using the 64-bit version of Vegas? Yes and don't remember
6. Do you have your internal hard drives set so that they spin down if not used for a period of time? No
7. Are you using Windows 7? Yes and don't remember

The first time this happened may have been with my Win XP 32 bit Vegas. I don't remember now. (The story of my life! :) )

The second time this happened most certainly was with Win 7 64 bit. I did a simple edit to an old project (deleted the last few clips) and resaved. Some time later when I opened the resaved project I found some corruption. I think, but cannot be sure, that the original resave was done before I discovered that a SMART event had been set on one of my RAID0 disks. I copied all the data off my RAID0 disks and restored them to a new pair of disks. I saw no evidence at the time that any file had been corrupted, but maybe this was when my problem occurred.

PS
I think by default with standard (non-RAID) disks, SMART event reporting may be turned off. If so I strongly recommend turning it on. It just might save your backside from a big kick.

PPS
I have just checked the dates of files and folders on my disk and can say for sure that the corruption occurred after replacing my RAID pair. Sorry for the red herring.
amendegw wrote on 8/31/2011, 5:11 AM
For my short 2 clip project documented above:

1. Do you have Media Manger installed and enabled? No - Hmmm. I see it's enabled, but not installed
2. Does your project use any subclips? No
3. Are any of your media files contained on an external drive or network? No
4. In the Options -> Preferences -> General tab are the following checked, or unchecked:
a. "Close media files when not the active application" Checked
b. "Create project file backups" Am I blind? Where is this? See below.
c. "Enable autosave" Checked
5. Are you using the 64-bit version of Vegas? Yes, 10.0e
6. Do you have your internal hard drives set so that they spin down if not used for a period of time? Yes
7. Are you using Windows 7? Yes - 64bit Home Premium - 8 GB Ram


...Jerry

Editorial comment: A regular "Chkdsk /f or /r" is always a good idea. A while back my Photoshop was hanging on launch. Turns out there an xml file that specified plugins had become corrupted. The Chkdsk identified & fixed be problem.

System Model:     Alienware M18 R1
System:           Windows 11 Pro
Processor:        13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13980HX, 2200 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 32 Logical Processor(s)

Installed Memory: 64.0 GB
Display Adapter:  NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU (16GB), Nvidia Studio Driver 566.14 Nov 2024
Overclock Off

Display:          1920x1200 240 hertz
Storage (8TB Total):
    OS Drive:       NVMe KIOXIA 4096GB
        Data Drive:     NVMe Samsung SSD 990 PRO 4TB
        Data Drive:     Glyph Blackbox Pro 14TB

Vegas Pro 22 Build 194

Cameras:
Canon R5 Mark II
Canon R3
Sony A9

Randy Brown wrote on 8/31/2011, 8:30 AM
1. Do you have Media Manger installed and enabled? no
2. Does your project use any subclips? yes
3. Are any of your media files contained on an external drive or network? yes, external drives
4. In the Options -> Preferences -> General tab are the following checked, or unchecked:
a. "Close media files when not the active application" yes
b. "Create project file backups" yes
c. "Enable autosave" no
5. Are you using the 64-bit version of Vegas? yes
6. Do you have your internal hard drives set so that they spin down if not used for a period of time? I don't think so, all are set to "best performance" but specifically I don't recall or know where to check
7. Are you using Windows 7? yes, 64 bit

Thanks for your efforts John!
Randy
johnmeyer wrote on 8/31/2011, 10:14 AM
OK, so all three who have answer so far are using the 64-bit version of Vegas. And they are all using Windows 7 (64-bit, of course).

I think there was a poll done a few months back in this forum asking how many are using the 64-bit version and, much to my surprise, most of the people who answered the poll had indeed moved to the 64-bit version. If that is representative of the general population -- and of course it may not be representative at all, since those who participate in this forum are a self-selected different group of people -- it would suggest that if were the only thing needed for the problem to happen, we'd be hearing more about it.

On the other hand, since this is a problem that doesn't affect everyone, is relatively new (despite having existed back in version 9), my hypothesis is that it is something unique to 64-bit, perhaps in how it interacts with something in Windows 7.

Another common answer in the three given so far is that everyone has the "Close media files when not the active application" option checked. My recommendation to everyone who has the problem is to uncheck this option and see what happens. I also recommend deleting all *.tmp files in the Windows Temp folder. These suggestions are meant to be a possible workaround until Sony gets its act together and actually fixes the bug.
johnmeyer wrote on 8/31/2011, 10:17 AM
A regular "Chkdsk /f or /r" is always a good idea. A while back my Photoshop was hanging on launch. Turns out there an xml file that specified plugins had become corrupted. The Chkdsk identified & fixed be problem.I agree 100%.

I can give over a dozen cases, from personal experience fixing other people's computers, where all sorts of problems cleared up after getting rid of cross-linked files, lost clusters, and other directory and file system problems that CHKDSK finds and fixes.
Randy Brown wrote on 8/31/2011, 12:04 PM
My recommendation to everyone who has the problem is to uncheck this option and see what happens. I also recommend deleting all *.tmp files in the Windows Temp folder. These suggestions are meant to be a possible workaround until Sony gets its act together and actually fixes the bug.

Done...will report back if it happens again.
thanks John!
rmack350 wrote on 8/31/2011, 7:37 PM
The thread is getting too long to read casually, so I don't know if this is off-point.

It's been a while since I've done anything with Vegas that was big enough to notice this problem but back in the Vegas 5 or 6 days I had a project where media in bins was being replaced randomly. I didn't see it on the timeline but the bin problem was really disconcerting. This was using 32-bit Vegas under 32-bit XP.

I'm sure Vegas was set to close and open media files as it lost and regained focus.

Rob Mack