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RogerS wrote on 11/24/2023, 2:52 AM

Are you trying to have ACES do the color management for you? In HDR or not?

If you want high precision but not use ACES, turn view transform off (this is required if you use camera color correction LUTs.) Try compositing gamma of 2.2.

For view transform, what's your monitor? sRGB may be fine for normal standard definition ones.
ACES default or CC should work well- toggle between them and you may not be able to even see a difference.

If you use ACES, for the various media you need to right click on it and select the proper color space for each or it will look wrong. This is the most important step!

Last changed by RogerS on 11/24/2023, 2:53 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MyChain wrote on 11/24/2023, 3:42 AM

Are you trying to have ACES do the color management for you? In HDR or not?

If you want high precision but not use ACES, turn view transform off (this is required if you use camera color correction LUTs.) Try compositing gamma of 2.2.

For view transform, what's your monitor? sRGB may be fine for normal standard definition ones.
ACES default or CC should work well- toggle between them and you may not be able to even see a difference.

If you use ACES, for the various media you need to right click on it and select the proper color space for each or it will look wrong. This is the most important step!

I will do as you say. It's new knowledge and I'm interested in Color grading
THANKS

RogerS wrote on 11/24/2023, 4:11 AM

If it's 10-bit log or raw footage I'd edit in 8-bit full mode and then render at 32-bit full. You can do the color grading last with ACES if you like the color space transforms for the footage.

You can also do it with LUTs in 32-bit full mode with ACES off (Sony and other makers have LUTs for their cameras for Slog 3. Some are even integrated into the color grading panel in VEGAS- look at the presets).

Personally I use the Leeming LUT to match cameras and this works in 8-bit full or 32-bit full with view transform of (no ACES). It only works for supported cameras. https://www.leeminglutpro.com/

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MyChain wrote on 11/27/2023, 12:03 AM

If it's 10-bit log or raw footage I'd edit in 8-bit full mode and then render at 32-bit full. You can do the color grading last with ACES if you like the color space transforms for the footage.

You can also do it with LUTs in 32-bit full mode with ACES off (Sony and other makers have LUTs for their cameras for Slog 3. Some are even integrated into the color grading panel in VEGAS- look at the presets).

Personally I use the Leeming LUT to match cameras and this works in 8-bit full or 32-bit full with view transform of (no ACES). It only works for supported cameras. https://www.leeminglutpro.com/

Thanks again for the advice. ^_____^

I have a few more questions and doubts.

I have an S-Log3 file, what project properties should I set?

Pixel Format : 32-bit Floating point (full range)
Compositing gamma : 1.000 (Linear)
ACES version : 1.2
ACES color space : ACEScc
View transform : off

or View transform, should I choose the Output that I want to display, for example REC.709, P3-DCI?


And in case I select View transform to off. Do I need to set Properties Video Footage Color Space to the color value of the camera I'm using? (I use Sony A7s > S-Log3-S-Gamut3.Cine) Or should I use a LUT to convert the video color value? (or set to Default)
 
When i should Look modification Transform be set?


Sorry for my language.
Thank you very much for the great knowledge.

RogerS wrote on 11/27/2023, 12:17 AM

Hi Mychain, so you are using ACES then? You'd pick a view transform that matches your display. For the file itself you need to pick s-log 3, s-gamut 3 cine color space.

If you are not using ACES and want to use LUTs or do it by hand, set view transform to off.
Set compositing gamma to 2.2 to match 8-bit full if you plan to go back and forth for performance reasons. You don't have to do anything with color space as that is only for ACES.

Look modification isn't something you need to set. From VEGAS help:

Look modification transform (LMT) is helpful feature when working with 32 bit full range or in HDR project. LMT has two options:

None - This is default option.

Apply Blue Light Artifact Fix - Use this LMT for desaturating blue hues to reduce the artifact caused by bright blue colors (e.g. sirens, headlights, LED lighting, etc.) In 32 bit full range project or in HDR mode, you can choose "Apply Blue Light Artifact Fix", if the video preview shows any blue light artifact due to clipping caused by bright blue colors. In an 8 bit project or 32 bit Video level project or when view transform is off, LMT will be disabled.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MyChain wrote on 11/27/2023, 12:55 AM

Ah
I don't use ACES, and Now I'm beginning to understand how to set up a project.
😀

Thanks RogerS
^______^

fr0sty wrote on 11/27/2023, 1:26 AM

Proper workflow:

1. Set the project to 32 bit full range mode.

2. Ask yourself the question... "What type of monitor do I want this footage to be viewed on?

A. If the answer is "A standard dynamic range TV.", then select the "Rec709" view transform.

B. If the answer is "A computer monitor.", select sRGB.

C. If the answer is "HDR screens." turn HDR mode on in project settings. This will automatically configure your project settings for HDR. You must make sure you have a HDR monitor connected to your computer, and windows HDR mode is enabled for that monitor. It works best to have a secondary full screen HDR display when color grading HDR.

3. Go into your media bin. Right click on all the media inside of it (tip: You can select more than one file at a time, to make adjustments to them all, just make sure they are the same color space, like SLOG3). Let's assume you have 2 SLOG3 clips, and 2 Red clips. Select the 2 SLOG3 clips, right click, and select "Properties". Go into the color space settings and change the color space to "SLOG3". Now do the same for the Red clips, but change the color space of those to the corresponding Red color space that matches the color space they were shot in.

If you do this correctly, instead of the log clips looking low contrast and desaturated, they should appear "normal". Nice color and contrast. Now you can color your clips to your liking.

Last changed by fr0sty on 11/27/2023, 1:27 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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RogerS wrote on 11/27/2023, 6:49 AM

I don't use ACES,

Means view transform= off.

If you want to try ACES, try it as Frosty describes. It's a tool and it can be helpful if your cameras and the camera settings you used are available as "color spaces" in VEGAS.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 11/27/2023, 5:56 PM

I don't use ACES

@MyChain I don't use Aces either... Start my projects in 8-bit Full and switch to 32-bit Full for the final render. I put my different cameras on their own tracks and use the large-sized 64- or 65-point LUTs from the manufacturer in the track-level Color Grading Panel. Here are the settings I used on one of my projects that worked well for me:

fr0sty wrote on 11/27/2023, 6:00 PM

I personally find that I get much better results when I do use ACES vs. using a LUT.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 11/27/2023, 6:05 PM

I've tried it both ways with just the Canon and got pretty much identical results but lower performance with Aces. Which I took as good news since my Zcam isn't supported anyway.

RogerS wrote on 11/27/2023, 6:26 PM

I wasn't really happy with Sony's one-size fits all LUTs and input display transforms that seem more for their cinema cameras than the alpha ones so went with third-party LUTs.

I'd like to see the ability to add third party/custom IDTs to ACES in VEGAS as the theory of ACES is great, especially to do both HDR and SDR.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MyChain wrote on 11/28/2023, 11:15 PM

Proper workflow:

1. Set the project to 32 bit full range mode.

2. Ask yourself the question... "What type of monitor do I want this footage to be viewed on?

A. If the answer is "A standard dynamic range TV.", then select the "Rec709" view transform.

B. If the answer is "A computer monitor.", select sRGB.

C. If the answer is "HDR screens." turn HDR mode on in project settings. This will automatically configure your project settings for HDR. You must make sure you have a HDR monitor connected to your computer, and windows HDR mode is enabled for that monitor. It works best to have a secondary full screen HDR display when color grading HDR.

3. Go into your media bin. Right click on all the media inside of it (tip: You can select more than one file at a time, to make adjustments to them all, just make sure they are the same color space, like SLOG3). Let's assume you have 2 SLOG3 clips, and 2 Red clips. Select the 2 SLOG3 clips, right click, and select "Properties". Go into the color space settings and change the color space to "SLOG3". Now do the same for the Red clips, but change the color space of those to the corresponding Red color space that matches the color space they were shot in.

If you do this correctly, instead of the log clips looking low contrast and desaturated, they should appear "normal". Nice color and contrast. Now you can color your clips to your liking.

Thanks
Now that I've tried what you said, it's working fine for me, and I have a better understanding of the Colorgrading Project settings.

I have a few more questions. In the Render As > Customize Template button > Project Tab window. Color Space: Is it necessary to choose? The color value corresponds to the monitor I want to view. Or should it be selected as Default? Did I understand correctly? Or how can I set this part? Please help me understand. I just started colorgrading with Vegas Pro.
What is the difference between Rec 709 / Rec 709 (D60sim)?



Thanks

RogerS wrote on 11/28/2023, 11:45 PM

What kind of user do you want to view your video and how?

In general keep it on default and Rec 709 is the standard for SDR video.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

MyChain wrote on 11/29/2023, 12:38 AM

What kind of user do you want to view your video and how?

In general keep it on default and Rec 709 is the standard for SDR video.

Thank you very much for your knowledge and help.

fr0sty wrote on 11/29/2023, 1:00 AM

You shouldn't have to adjust anything in the color space of render settings.

MyChain wrote on 11/29/2023, 3:07 AM

You shouldn't have to adjust anything in the color space of render settings.

ok, Thanks

mark-y wrote on 11/29/2023, 6:51 PM

View Transform doesn't work correctly at all if the Media Properties don't have the right colorspace selected, which is not an uncommon occurence. Don't know about VP21, but previous versions always reported 'Sony S-Log S-Gamut 3' incorrectly as Default.

Also, View Transform can apply a redundant transform under certain circumstances. If you open a 10-16 bit sRGB image, and manually set Media Properties correctly to sRGB, View Transform should be left Off if your native monitor is sRGB / REC709. Leaving media colorspace at Default and setting View Transform to sRGB or its video counterpart REC709, accomplishes the same thing.