> I don't believe there's anything in the NDA, which forbids me from mentioning if I'm part of the beta team or not. No, I didn't make the cut for V6. <

Hmmm, well that makes me wonder if <anyone> has been beta-testing V6 on the audio side? Anyone care to speak up?!

Otherwise this could be worse than we feared...

Ben

Ben is what he is today. Angry with Sony.

...If nothing else, this thread is providing us with some lines we are going to get great mileage out of. :-)

...if any of us are still around much longer...

big red wrote:

Gotta admit I have downloaded the trial version of Sonar.

It was about 10 minuets after I saw Peter’s “We are the audio heavey-weight when it comes to Video NLEs” line.

...Reminds me of that scene in The Simpsons...In the episode where Lisa gives Ralph Wiggum the ‘I Choo-choo-choose-you’ card...They go on a date and Lisa ends up completely humiliating Ralph on TV.

Bart is later replaying the video of the incident frame by frame. He points at the screen and says "And here you can see the exact moment when you tear his heart out".

When I read that line from Peter I think I had the same expression on my face as poor Ralph.

" that makes me wonder if <anyone> has been beta-testing V6 on the audio side? Anyone care to speak up?!"

All beta testers, several of whom have posted in this thread, whether "audio side", "video side" or "other/both/mixed/other needs" are under NDA, which means they have signed a legally binding agreement and can't say anything in public until the app is officially released.

Also, re "sides": Despite what ships when in various revs, Vegas has always been a hybrid app and although certain users may have said over the years "I don't CARE about video!" or, "I don't CARE about audio!" or "(insert what you don't care about here)" we live in a mixed media world and Vegas is and will remain at the forefront of that world. Some of the most diehard audio people on our beta teams have migrated into into for example DVD production services (in fact a team of them you'd know from myriad forum posts just visited us for a major brain-dump)...and some of what were at one time the most diehard purely video-only types are now doing killer sound mixes for their TV work/post. Anyway, we really don't consider the feature sets a tug of war to satisfy "sides", you shouldn't expect a departure from the mixed media focus in Vegas 6, YES there will some cool stuff for the "pure audio" types, I cannot say exactly what at this time.

I'll also add that we appeciate your business greatly, and as with anything else you should buy the product that does at release time what you need it to do, not what you hope it might do someday x-versions down the road.

" YES there will some cool stuff for the "pure audio" types, I cannot say exactly what at this time."

I have 2 snide remarks for this :P

"pure audio" types should probably be using tape.

and "coool stuff" isn't what folks are looking for, what's asked for seems more like essential capabilities.

but seriously, yes Vegas is definitly a hybrid app. I can appreciate that very much as I am also a visual artist. BUt (right now) not Video. I use Vegas as a multitrack and to mix (since 2.0). I like the way it does that - and more importantly, I like the sounds I get in the end. I get frustrated just like everyone else by the lack of some feature I may want- lately for me that would be not having tempo/time signature markers available. I've been playing around with this and MIDI in ACID for the first time, and I can really see how this could help my personal workflow. So well, I'll just use ACID to accomodate that - but that only makes sense if they could talk to each other in such a way (REWIRE?) as to migrate back and forth. So I'm looking elsewhere (again). Here Sony potentially loses a Vegas user as well as an ACID user.

I am anxiously awaiting the release of Vegas 6.

you "appreciate our business"....that's good. im really glad that you do.
how about our suggestions, do you see any merit in them?

i'll tell you what i appreciate....your philosophy. "buy the product
that does at release time what you need" and "not what you
hope it might do someday x-versions down the road."

heres a thought:

CUBASE started out as a MIDI recording and editing tool for
the Atari ST. it initially could not record raw audio

PRO TOOLS started out as Sound Designer a program that allowed
editing and manipulating of E-mu Emulator II samples.
it had no midi support and couldnt record or edit stereo audio files.
years later Digidesign would improve and bundle Sound Designer
software with its hardware for the Mac II family of computers and call
this 2-track digital recording/editing system Sound Tools.

what's the point?
point is, other applications have grown to meet the needs of the music community. other applications have grown to meet the needs of thier users.
theres nothing strange about it..... in fact, its a formula for success.
AND YET when someone comes in here and asks for a feature that would really help them in vegas, you say, well ...'you should of bought "the
product that does at release time what you need"

look at how much cubase and pro tools have grown since thier first release
would it have been WRONG if years ago someone posted on the cubase
fourm and said 'hey this program is cool on the atari but why not add
this feature or the other and bring it to a more powerful machine?'

would it have been WRONG for someone to post on the sound designer
fourm and say 'hey i like this application but why not add midi
support? and support more file types like .wav?'

when vegas audio users offer suggestions or complaints,
they're really sharing thier feelings. if you read between the lines
you'll see that this thread contains the perspective of people
who care about audio.

this information's invaluable to any company THAT WANTED to meet
the needs of thier customers...........


Here's what i want to know....what if someone (lets say a video guy) came in here and suggested vegas support BWF, would you tell him 'dont wait
for"x-versions down the road."?

As previously pointed out, in another thread a video user suggested a Premiere type audio scrubbing feature for Vegas, the response was, "we are highly considering that for a future release of Vegas." On the audio perspective, we want to see Rewire in Vegas, the response is Vegas is not musical and therefore makes it diffiicult to rewire with the outside world and it might break the Video features making it musical......so again the response could be "we highly considered it, but there where too many pitfalls that could happen to the video side." Well, my perspective on that viewpoint is that, would Rewire break the video feature implementation, or did the video feature implementation already break the audio feature sets of tomorrow? I appreciate Vegas is a "multimedia" application. It's allowed me to become more familiar with doing Video work, but first and foremost I use Vegas for audio. All this makes a stronger case, which is my entire point. That being Acid needs the Vegas Audio features in it. Of course when we say this, then we get the reply that "Acid is not a DAW, Vegas is our DAW" and "Red you've been saying this for years". As audio users,where do we turn? Maybe someone needs to wake up over there and realize the message you're sending to your audio user base, then start highly considering the phrase, "We will highly consider adding the Vegas audio features to Acid in the next revision."

Here's my dirty half dozen for Acid:
1. Vegas style Tracks (encompassing Vegas style editing, multitrack recording, punchin ability and input monitoriing)
2. Ext Hardware controler support
3. Enhanced midi functionality
4. Vegas Edit details Window
5. FX freeze
6. ASIO Direct Monitoring