Why VEGAS Pro 15 works more smoothly than VEGAS Pro 20?

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:22 AM

I am so confused because greater version should be better than old ones.

Then why VP 15 is very smooth, fast and with very few lags / crashes, sometimes no lag or crash through the whole day.

And on other side why VP 20 have a heavy workflow with lots of crashes in the whole day and smoother but not like VP15?

I have used these both in same machine as in my signature.

Why it is happening? is this any engineering fault or my system is not made for VP 20 smoothness?

Can anyone tell me if there is any settings change which can make VP 20 works exact like VP 15?

if u wanna know about footage i used in editing then u can take any footage. VP 15 is smoother than VP 20 in every case.

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:30 AM

Just one suggestion, in VP20 go to HUB Explorer and in its top toolbar turn off 'Create Download Collection'. I and others have found this being activated a big cause of poor timeline performance particularly after the first 'save' in that session. Whether this works for you is another question.

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:33 AM

Just one suggestion, in VP20 go to HUB Explorer and in its top toolbar turn off 'Create Download Collection'. I and others have found this being activated a big cause of poor timeline performance particularly after the first 'save' in that session. Whether this works for you is another question.

I don't use Vegas HUB & HUB Explorer often. I mostly keep deleted those both from tabs. And even I don't log in.

So I don't think I will work. But I will try once.

RogerS wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:38 AM

Turning off project collections makes a difference even if you don't use it.

I assume you are on the latest update to VP 20.

Beyond that 20 may use the AMD GPU more than 15 did. What driver version are you using? If your CPU has an iGPU enable and use that for decoding in preferences/ file io.

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:44 AM

Adrenalin 22.11.2 Recommended (WHQL) This is the latest version i get suggestion to update from AMD.

but i use 1 stage older may be 22.05 .. that is working good for Vegas.

22.11.2 make my preview purple without any reason so i have to use older version.

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:45 AM

How can i know my CPU has iGPU?

RogerS wrote on 2/18/2023, 5:47 AM

22.5.1 is a known good version and if your preview turns purple with later drivers I'd stick with it!

What's the main media you use? Instructions to answer: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

It's possible it wasn't supported with GPU decoding in 15 and is in 20 but doesn't work that well. In preferences/ file io you can check and uncheck the legacy HEVC or legacy AVC decoders and see what works best for you.

j-v wrote on 2/18/2023, 6:15 AM

How can i know my CPU has iGPU?

It has, look

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 6:30 AM

I know its strange but i don't know my External Graphic Card is stronger which is RX 560 or my iGPU UHD 770?

can anybody help?

and secondly. My UHD 770 is not showing in preference only AMD is showing.

j-v wrote on 2/18/2023, 6:36 AM

If it does not show up in Device manager/Display adapters/ you have to allow it in your BIOS to show up
With me it is used for faster decoding and sometimes for rendering

RogerS wrote on 2/18/2023, 6:45 AM

Your UHD 770 is stronger for decoding (see preferences/ file io). Your AMD card is stronger for video preview (preferences/video). You can use either for rendering/encoding (VCE or QSV).

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/18/2023, 11:24 AM

@iEmby If the igpu is not appearing in Vegas, it's probably because the Intel Graphics Driver is not installed. GPU-Z is what I use to easily check out whether the Intel igpu is seen and if so, what driver it has. Generally, if it's not disabled in bios but lacks the Intel driver, it will show up in GPU-Z with the Microsoft basic display adapter driver which Vegas cannot use except for display if you plug your monitor into the motherboard hdmi. Get the Intel Display Driver here from Intel (graphics button) or from your motherboard maker. Agree with RogerS... I only use the igpu for rendering qsv or decoding on the Vegas i/o tab.

Also make sure that once all the drivers are installed that the external gpu is listed 1st and tagged Optimal by Vegas... if it's listed 2nd or the igpu is tagged Optimal, you may need to go into Windows System/Display/Graphics and select the AMD gpu (usually marked High Performance) for use with Vegas.

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 10:37 PM

@RogerS, @Howard-Vigorita, @Dexcon @j-v

Thanks guys... I did how u said. Now AMD is set for preview in preference and INTEL is set in file i/o tab.

Uncheck on MKV & AVC and checked on only HEVC (coz, it was default settings).

Turned off project collection in HUB explorer.

I noticed a little improvement in smoothness on my same project.

Project setting is 1920 x 1080 x 128 at 50fps. Preview settings is Best (Full).

My all footage are from camera Sony S3, 1920 x 1080 at 59fps.

No extra plugins used except colour grading and some default transitions.

But it still lags when curser line plays over transition part while playback.

It is improved thanks to u guys. But still not too smooth like VP 15.

iEmby wrote on 2/18/2023, 11:52 PM

take a look at this too please. This also happened often, in every project. Hover Scrub stopped without any reason. it should be smooth like in ADOBE atleast. is this my system problem or its a bug?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/19/2023, 1:57 AM

What type of footage do you edit? Is it 8bit or 10bit?

If you use ACES, as shown in your snapshots - reduce the preview quality. ACES with best/full is heavy.

If you use 8bit footage, go back to 8bit project settings to see how that works.

I would stay with Vegas Pro 20, but I wonder if your settings are the best possible settings.

iEmby wrote on 2/19/2023, 3:11 AM

What type of footage do you edit? Is it 8bit or 10bit?

I think it will be 8 bit, by the way, how can I know my footage is 8bit or 10bit? please tell me i will check and edit this comment.

If you use ACES, as shown in your snapshots - reduce the preview quality. ACES with best/full is heavy.

Yes, it improves smoothness on preview (full / half) quality settings. But I tried to use same ACES settings in VP15 and on Best (Full/Half) preview quality settings, no issue occurs there.

By the way Its ok, I will manage with Preview (Half) which is smoother in playback but while processing transitions it lags sometimes crashes.

If you use 8bit footage, go back to 8bit project settings to see how that works.

Sir on 8bit footage setting, it gets back to sLog RAW colors. then i have to add Luts in CG panel sRGB but colors are not same contrast & levels in that way. I have to work on colors grading more on 8bit settings not on ACES. And smooth playback also not improved much, it gives still lags and crashes while processing transition in the time of playback.

I would stay with Vegas Pro 20, but I wonder if your settings are the best possible settings.

can u please suggest me what will be the best settings for my system to run VEGAS lag less & crash less.

I will manage with preview quality while editing but lags crashes & smoothness i prefer most.

please check my signature.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/19/2023, 5:59 AM

You have uses an Sony Alpha 7 SIII?

https://www.sony.at/electronics/wechselobjektivkameras/ilce-7sm3/specifications?cpint=SG_PRODUCT_DETAILS_PRI-TOUT-PDP-ILCE-7SM3-EN_GL-2020-06-M01-IMAGINATIONIN

Which settings you have used? Could be 8bit or 10bit. Could be log or not. Then you should know if the footage is 8bit or 10bit, since the Sony Alpha s3 seems to be able to shoot in 8bit or 10bit

Since it seems to be true, that you do not know that - fine. But then use Mediainfo to find that out, and post the results here.

If you have shoot slog, then you should tell us. And you should tell us what is your target format - rec709 or PQ HDR or what?

I am not sure about what you mean with „slog RAW colors“. Probably the flat picture of log? Without knowing in much more detail what type of footage you wish to grade, what your project settings are, it is hard to support you. Please post

a) Media Info of your footage

b) settings in your camera used for shooting?

c) was it 50p as your snapshoots show, or 60p?

d) media properties you have allicated to your footage

e) full project settings.

While your processor is powefull enough, your system is on the minimum specification in terms of RAM. 16GB is not great, for an ACES workflow I would upgrade to 32GB. Also the GPU could be on the limit for an ACES workflow - since here are GPUs recommended with 8GB RAM (you have 4 GB only). Please check your system according to the minimum requirements

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/specifications/

iEmby wrote on 2/19/2023, 6:33 AM

a) Media Info of your footage

I am working on these 2 types of data.

b) settings in your camera used for shooting?

s-log 709 profile 2 & sometimes 3

d) media properties you have allicated to your footage

e) full project settings.

RogerS wrote on 2/19/2023, 7:47 AM

I think you need to take care with your camera settings. No GPU can decode 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC so proxy files are normal with this file type. If you are going to use 10-bit files you'll need to edit color and render in a 32-bit mode (32-bit video, 32-bit full or 32-bit ACES).

If you're shooting Slog 2 or 3 the camera should be set to 10-bit mode and use the corresponding sgamut gamut so that ACES or correction LUTs will work properly.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/19/2023, 10:07 AM

No GPU can decode 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC so proxy files are normal with this file type.

@iEmby That's the common wisdom but when I tested my xf605 shooting that into Canon mxf, I got a 3D utilization jump with an Intel Arc and decent performance with the same i/o settings you posted. But appearance and performance was better shooting 4k 4:2:0 hevc mp4 so I stuck with that. I do not have a uhd770 igpu, however. Suggest you test all the camera formats available to you for yourself.

Also, suggest you edit at Preview-Auto. If you use proxies, that's required because proxies are bypassed at any of the Good or Best preview settings. Another thing that seems to help previewing double-rate and/or 4k footage without proxies, is to uncheck the box to "Display at Project Size" in Video Prefs. A further thing I sometimes do that helps allot to edit/preview double-rate ntsc without proxies is to temporarily set the project frame rate to 1/2 ntsc... just gotta manually set it back to 60p for the final render.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/19/2023, 11:22 AM

Thank you for posting the details.

Some comments:

I wonder that you mix 8bit mp4 footage with 10bit XAVC footage. While that is possible, it makes the workflow even more tricky
Especially for slog, as Roger has stated please shoot always with 10bit full range.
The project properties shown by you are 1080 60p, what is in line with your footage. However, in the snapshoots above you have shown project settings of 1080 60p. I recommend to stick to project properties of 60p, to be in line with your footage. It is never a good idea to use 60p footage in 50p project settings.
If you are short of playback performance, you cool try to change the project settings to 1080 30p for editing - and put it back to 1080 60p for rendering
For the transformation of slog footage to rec709 as delivery format, as Roger has stated you should apply an ACES transformation. Project settings could be, but there are some possibilities:
For ACES it is a MUST to define for every clip in the "media properties", what type off footage you use. You can do that in the timeline, with a right mouseclick on the clip/then properties/then media and then color space. It can be better done in the project media window - by selecting all clips you wish to define - and define it here with a right mouseclick the media properties.
Since you have not answered the question about "media properties", please take the time to familiarize yourself with this kind of adjustment.
"slog2/3 with rec709" are quite atypical settings. I would also stick to something like slog2/3.SGamut3. Please have a look to the "media properties", what is available for Sony clips in ACES:

Please be aware that slog2/3 with rec709 is not even foreseen here!
The disadvantage with rec709 would be, that it is a quite smaller Gamut compared to SGamut. So it is better to define your input to the ACES space as SGamut, and make the transformation to rec709 in the end of the ACES transformation.

Since your machine is out of spec for both the RAM and the GPU, I think that you will have to upgrade your hardware for an ACES workflow, what I would recommend to do. Here are the reasons for your crashes, very likely.

There is also the possibility to work with an 8bit workflow for editing, and switch to 32bit for rendering only. Use then the input LUTs in the color grading portal, and grade here. There exists one "slog3 to rec709", what could work in your case. But take care about possible color and luminance shifts - the table here might help you to find the right combination.