Don't want to 'dis' any product while I'm still trialling it, but I've already been in contact with proDAD support and they have been responsive, in terms of getting quick emails back, but I can't import any format (at all!) into my trial version of MercalliaV3 SAL. I have Mercalli Easy installed an it imports pretty much everything without any problems.

(Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Vegas Pro 13)

Please don't rely on what I say unless others confirm it, but my understanding is that the Mercalli installation program only installs the K-Lite codecs into its own folder, for its own use, and doesn't affect the codecs used by Vegas. I have Mercalli V3 and could not get it to work with the AVCHD .mts files from my Sony camcorder when I had said "no" to the codec installation step. So I re-installed it and let it install the codecs. Mercalli then worked with the .mts files, and I have not had a problem in Vegas.

The general advice to not install codec packs is good, but I think this is an exception.
Can any one else confirm this (or "dis-confirm" it) for the OP?.

"My understanding is that the Mercalli installation program only installs the K-Lite codecs into its own folder, for its own use"

If that is indeed the case, then it should be safe.

I have K-lite codec standard edition and it has never caused any problems. Not surprising since it only installs DirectShow codecs and Vegas does not use DirectShow. The mega version will install Video for Windows codecs.

ProDad products, Mercalli V3 SAL and Respeedr (I have both) install codecs privately for themselves. They do what they do, with the warning and directions to download and such, probably since they are open source codecs they are using and proDad products are proprietary commercial.

>>If that is indeed the case, then it should be safe.<<

Does anyone know the files names of these codecs? I could look in my system to see where Mercalli installed them, but I don't know what to look for.

Edit: never mind. Looks like NormanPCN confirmed while I was composing this reply.

Just don't install anything that replaces system codecs.

I have the Mercalli plug-in and it's brilliant. I opted not to install V3 SAL due to the K-lite Codec pack requirement. Plus for my needs the plug-in is better as I stabilize individual clips as needed rather than on a batch basis.

Regards,

Kimberly

ProDAD products use ffmpeg libraries, which do not affect the system

Thanks everybody for the advice. I use ffmpeg (command line version) which for example installs everything to one folder and they are only libraries (DLLs) and don't affect anything else. The Mercalli Easy edition warns me every time I start it that I should upgrade an already installed K-Lite, but I don't have K-Lite installed (!), and it works regardless. I'm now trialling V3 SAL and it won't open any video .... just gives a red screen, instructs to click on it, which simply opens the web browser at the product page. I have no idea what's wrong, there are no clues, and so far, their support hasn't offered any help.

Anyone else having problems getting started with V3 SAL on Window 7 x64?

I have k-lite (64) installed with no issues at all.

> "...but the product in question sells itself as a "pro" edition, and by not installing it I appear to have run foul of support."

IMHO, there is nothing "professional" about shipping a product that doesn't work and then asking customers to download questionable content to get it to work. If ProDAD were "professional" they would license the codecs they need and provide their customer with a complete solution. Imagine if you bought Avid Media Composer, or Adobe Premiere Pro, or Apple Final Cut Pro X, or Sony Vegas Pro but it couldn't read ANY files unless you download a collection of questionable free codecs? They would be laughed out of the industry. I think ProDAD should be ashamed of the "unprofessional" and "incomplete" product they have produced.

The K-Like codec pak has been known to cause problems and it has been documented time and time again (i.e., people have problems, they uninstall K-Lite, the problems go away). I don't see how ProDAD can only copy it into it's own folder because they tell you to download the real thing from the Internet which is very intrusive. I have Mercalli V2 but I refuse to put K-Lite on my editing workstation. I did not buy, and will not buy, V3 because of this ridiculous pre-requisite.

BTW, the plug-in version of Mercalli V2 can read any file that Vegas Pro can read without having to install any viral codec-paks. This is how I use it and how I recommend you do to.

~jr

"IMHO there is nothing professional about shipping a product that doesn't work and then asking customers to download questionable content to get it to work. "
Vegas and Quicktime ;)

" (i.e., people have problems, they uninstall K-Lite, the problems go away)."
And those people most likely don't have their codec pack set properly. There is a utlity which comes with these codec packs to enable only the codecs required. Most people just don't know how to use it.

> "Vegas and Quicktime ;)"

You can say the same for other codecs like DNxHD or reading P2 cards before Vegas included this capability. The point is that Vegas Pro reads plenty of formats right out of the box and Sony doesn't tell you that they won't support you until you download QuickTime. It's really an optional install for people who are using that format.

At least QuickTime and Avid DNxHD is product from a reputable vendor. There is nothing "questionable" about the source of QuickTime unless you are an Apple-phobe. K-Lite is a collection of free codecs that blindly replace the codecs on your PC that you have paid for. It is controlled by no one and 1/2 of the web sites you can download it from will give your computer a virus.

I feel that's extremely unprofessional as a "hard" requirement to using software you paid for. They don't mention this anywhere on their web site. At least Sony clearly states "Apple® QuickTime® 7.1.6 or later for reading and writing QuickTime files". ProDAD should list K-Lite as a pre-req to using their software under their System Requirements. The customers can make an informed decision to buy it or not.

~jr

"There is nothing "questionable" about the source of QuickTime unless you are an Apple-phobe. "

LOL LOL LOL!
ANYTHING Apple is "Questionable" when installed on a PC
Both itunes and quicktime move in and attempt to take over your machine. Have a look at firefox for example after you install QT. It literally takes over as the default player for just about everything. It takes 20 minutes to a 1/2 hour to straighten out the QT damage in firefox alone!

QT isn't much more than MALWARE on a PC.

> "QT isn't much more than MALWARE on a PC."

I did say ".. unless you're an Apple-phobe" :-) (you have to admit you have a long history of hating anything Apple)

I have QuickTime and iTunes on my PC ands they work just fine.

~jr

"I have QuikTime and iTunes on my PC ands they work just fine."

I never said it didn't work (although it's not great)
What I said was that it does things to your machine that wasn't expected and asked for. That is the definition of MALWARE, not apple phobia.

But you're missing the point. Vegas requires outside codecs should you choose to do certain things.

> "What I said was that it does things to your machine that wasn't expected and asked for. That is the definition of MALWARE, not apple phobia."

I installed iTunes because I wanted it to manage my music and videos so I like that it takes all of that over from the more inferior Microsoft products (you see... I hate Microsoft as much as you hate Apple) lol :-D

> "But you're missing the point. Vegas requires outside codecs should you choose to do certain things."

Yes, but you missed the point... Mercalli requires K-Lite before it can do ANYTHING!!! (and they don't tell you about this on their web site)

(edit: actually if I remember correctly, I think Mercalli will process some AVI formats without K-Lite so it's not entirely a hard pre-req but no one uses AVI anymore)

~jr

"so I like that it takes all of that over from the more inferior Microsoft products "

Whether you like it or not is irrelivant. QT and itunes do things to your machine that you did not ask it to do when you install. THAT is the definition of MALWARE.

"If you have Quicktime, annoyingly enough, Quicktime takes control and becomes the default mp3 player for your browser and leaving no option whatsoever to change the default mp3 player. Even if you change the Tools -> Options -> Applications settings to change the default player, it will have no effect as Quicktime has already Hijacked this setting from users.

[url=http://rubayathasan.com/tutorial/disabling-quicktime-as-firefox-default-mp3-player/]

"Yes, but you missed the point... Mercalli requires K-Lite before it can do ANYTHING!!!"

This is just plain untruthful.
Mercalli needs some codecs to properly work with SPECIALIZED formats.. just like Vegas, MOV and QT The only difference is that QT doesn't install very politely. Read dalemccl's post again:

"Please don't rely on what I say unless others confirm it, but my understanding is that the Mercalli installation program only installs the K-Lite codecs into its own folder, for its own use, and doesn't affect the codecs used by Vegas.

> "This is just plain untruthful."

Agreed, I had already made a note in that post that they do support AVI formats but no one is using them anymore. Most people want to drop their AVCHD files into the stand alone Mercalli product and it can't handle them without K-Lite being installed. I was unaware that ProDAD won't even support you if you don't have K-Lite installed (if that is true).

The point of my post is that ProDAD does not advertise that you need K-Lite to read most "modern" file formats and they should update their web site to say so. K-Lite has a "reputation" for messing up NLE's like Vegas Pro. It would be nice if ProDAD was upfront about that instead of hiding it.

Obviously this is an important point which cause the original poster to come here are ask for advice. IMHO, ProDAD should fix this problem.

~jr

"And that's an inaccurate reputation formed by fear mongers who don't know what they are doing."

That's deliberately inflammatory and entirely untrue, both about k-lite and of your fellow forum users.

k-lite, installed on one's SYSTEM (it's important to know the difference), is known by me to break Vegas compatibility with some common file types, and the registry changes are not completely reversible by a normal Windows system restore.

I don't contest a local installation of a codec package along with a reputable application as being ok, but I would never use that as an excuse to proceed without an abundance of caution.

If, as it seems, you are advocating unfettered use by others of codec replacements, you run the risk of giving bad advice, or worse, facilitating nonrecoverable changes to someone else's editing system. Since I had system codecs replaced by k-lite some time back that broke Vegas and Premiere compatibility with some common formats, I'll stand by my experience, and not dignify any future claims of compatibility with NLE systems with a response. A professional forum is simply not the place for this.

If ProDAD were "professional" they would license the codecs they need and provide their customer with a complete solution. Imagine if you bought Avid Media Composer, or Adobe Premiere Pro, or Apple Final Cut Pro X, or Sony Vegas Pro but it couldn't read ANY files unless you download a collection of questionable free codecs?


Questionable? Sony gets nearly all of their codecs from Mainconcept. By many measures Mainconcepts collection is more questionable than the codecs in libavcodec which is what all the open source setups are using.

Since these items are open source you cannot "license" them.

I don't see how ProDAD can only copy it into it's own folder because they tell you to download the real thing from the Internet which is very intrusive

proDad does not install or use K-lite. They use libavcodec.

" The here offered, free, video codecs are supplied by third parties (http://ffmpeg.org) and are provided for the sake of convenience"

They do not install into any codec subsystem on Windows. Video for Windows, DirectShow, DMO or Media Foundation. libavcodec operates on all operating systems. libavcodcec knows nothing about Windows codec subsystems.

but I refuse to put K-Lite on my editing workstation. I did not buy, and will not buy, V3 because of this ridiculous pre-requisite.

Fine. proDad does not require K-lite in any way. It uses libavcodec.

K-lite is simply an installation of the LAV DirectShow filters project. LAV is simply DirectShow filters providing access to libavcodec codecs.

I don't have a long history with Vegas but started with 12.
From my looking Vegas only uses two codec subsystems.
Video for Windows (VfW) for AVI files and Quicktime for most QT MOV files.
It does not use DirectShow or Media Foundation codec subsystems.
It does install some DirectX media objects for audio effects.
I have read that Vegas bypasses VfW for Cineform AVI files, by using the Cineform SDK directly. Since VP10 if I remember correctly.