Your opinions on "codec packs" please ....

Comments

Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 11:42 AM
"k-lite, installed on one's SYSTEM (it's important to know the difference), is known by me to break Vegas compatibility with some common file types, and the registry changes are not completely reversible by a normal Windows system restore."

You have your facts mixed up.
The FULL k-lite independent downloadable package installs globally, the prodad version does not. It installs to Prodad only. You can't use it globally.

"If, as it seems, you are advocating unfettered use by others of codec replacements, you run the risk of giving bad advice, or worse, facilitating nonrecoverable changes to someone else's editing system."
And you run the risk of fear mongering on the mere basis YOU may have done something wrong. How do you explain others installing K-lite with no issues?



JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/13/2014, 12:13 PM
> "Where did you find mention of K-Light codec pack during installation?"

When you first install Mercalli V2 SAL is tells you that you need K-Lite at the end of the install and prompts you to download and install it. If you cancel, every time you open the application, it reminds you that you don't have it. It's really anoying.

This is what I see EVERY TIME I OPEN MERCALLI V2 SAL:



This is what that windows says:
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
The program can only be used when all following notifications have disappeared:
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
KLite CodecPack:
KLite-CodePack is installed but too old
Update: http://www.prodad.de/support/files/K-Lite_CodecPack.exe

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Please note:
Only if all recommended components (e. g. Video/Audio Decoder) are being correctly installed, the program can be perfectly used and free of limitations. Thus we URGENTLY recommend that you install the listed components or to update these components.
Then the program can load many more formats and can process the videos significantly faster and best possible. Therefore please necessarily complete the action for more success, productivity, compatibility and performance!

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
If these recommendations are being ignored during processing, errors might occurs and necessary functions or included features are not available.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #


Seems like they get very upset if you don't install it. That is NOTHING like the relationship between Vegas Pro and QuickTime. Vegas could care less if QuickTime was installed and if you never need QuickTime support Vegas doesn't bug you about it and you never have to install it.

~jr
musicvid10 wrote on 7/13/2014, 1:51 PM
Rob, I addressed all that above, and I certainly know the difference between system and local libraries. But by all means, keep blowing smoke.
You will see I said this exactly:
"I don't contest a local installation of a codec package along with a reputable application as being ok, but I would never use that as an excuse to proceed without an abundance of caution."

I'm not perfect, but when I do something wrong, it is only once.

I also respect ProDad and assume they've done due diligence. What bothers the hell out of me about your statements.are the uninitiated who will not understand the difference and screw up their systems as a result of installing codec packs, or do so at the behest of other applications or adware, or from incautious statements read on some internet forum where they happened to turn for "professional" advice. The consequences can be huge, and I know I wouldn't want the onus of having given that same advice in the sensationalistic way you did.

And defending k-lite because it is "partially" safe is hardly reassuring.

We do have a responsibility here. If you persist in making blanket endorsements, you run the risk of misleading others and attracting scrutiny in a way that those who choose to err on the side of caution do not risk. Done.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:02 PM
> "I also respect ProDad and assume they've done due diligence. What bothers the **** out of me about your statements.are the uninitiated who will not understand the difference and screw up their systems as a result of installing codec packs, or do so at the behest of other applications or adware, or from incautious statements read on some internet forum where they happened to turn for "professional" advice. The consequences can be huge, and I know I wouldn't want the onus of having given that same advice in the sensationalistic way you did."

+1 *exactly*

If it takes a rocket scientist to figure out how to install the K-Lite Codec Pack without messing up your system, then please only recommend it to rocket scientists. The rest of us can do with it. At a minimum, the K-Lite installer should do no harm by default (i.e., it should not overlay a codec that exists, it should only add new ones). If you need to take extra steps so that it doesn't do harm, then IMHO it should be avoided unless you know what you are doing. That's not "fear mongering"... that's good advice for newbies.

~jr
musicvid10 wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:17 PM
On a closely related note, I've resisted installing Ripbot for just the reason that it requires k-lite. Anyone know if it's a safe local installation with that software?
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:27 PM
"We do have a responsibility here. If you persist in making blanket endorsements, you run the risk of misleading others and attracting scrutiny in a way that those who choose to err on the side of caution do not risk. Done."
In that entire grand speech you made, you failed to answer my question, so who's blowing the smoke?
Once again:
Why have some installed k-lite and not had ANY issues?

In YOUR defense I will add this:
You have to be careful when downloading k-lite, or any other open source product. Because it is open source many (unscrupulous) companies download it, bundle it with their (less honest) software then offer it as "k-lite" to the public. Maybe this is what happened to you... but none the less, please answer my question and until you can, please stop with the fear mongering.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:33 PM
No, the real question is, why are are you endorsing something you know that some others have had serious issues with?
Gotta pick your battles in this life, Rob.
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:46 PM
Here's a screen shot if you don't believe me.
You can clearly see I'm running Vegas with k-lite installed and I HAVE NO ISSUES.
The only logical conclusion I can come why it didn't work for you is either you installed a 'dirty' copy, or you didn't know what you were doing.
[IMG=http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt245/Bob_sanders/Untitled_zps2a7e8b85.jpg]
musicvid10 wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:50 PM
"What I care about is your fear mongering and false statements."

That's enough. Forum service rule #1.
Reported as abuse.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/13/2014, 3:57 PM
> "Why does k-lite seem to only have adverse effects for SOME people? If it's as detrimental as you claim then why does it not have adverse reactions for all who use it?"

Because not everyone requires the same codecs and if K-Lite messes up a codec that you never use, you will never know it.

This is the same reason why Vegas Pro works great for some and not for others. I have no problems editing my HDV and AVCHD footage from my "video" cameras. I see lots of people who use video from "still image" cameras having problems. Same Vegas Pro... two different formats, two different outcomes.

~jr
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 4:03 PM
"

Please stop deflecting and answer the question. If you can't then you have no basis whatsoever in your claim, and the fear mongering statement FACTUALLY stands.
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 4:06 PM
"Because not everyone requires the same codecs and if K-Lite messes up a codec that you never use, you will never know it. "

That's a valid and acceptable possibility, but you're forgetting the fact that K-lite offers a control panel which gives FULL control over the enabling and disabling of its various codecs. This (if actually happening) is not a k-lite problem, but rather operator error.
Former user wrote on 7/13/2014, 4:34 PM
Rob,

I am curious, why are you taking this so personal. I too am one of the people that got stung my K-Lite a long time ago. I don't remember any panel offering me not to install elements of the package. From what I read online, many others have the same problem. I have not looked at it lately, so I don't know if this panel was added in later installs.

If some people, very knowledgeable people I may add, have had this problem, why are you so adamant that it is an OE? We are discussing the pitfalls here, not attacking anyone's experience. A Warning of a potential conflict is not fearmongering.
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 4:51 PM
" A Warning of a potential conflict is not fearmongering. "

It's been more than "just a warning". We have had some one call a program 'unprofessional'. We've had someone make claims another program "broke" their machine.

All I'm saying here is check your facts because other people read these threads.

There are a number of people in this very thread that operate with K-lite and other codec packs without any issues at all. So what's 'unprofessional' is going off 1/2 cocked and laying blame when no one knows for sure who or what to blame.

I operate fine with k-lite, and I run Vegas, Adobe CS5/6 as well as Protools. So if I and others are not having problems then there must be something else in the mix here. Personally I would love to know what... but with all the "sky will fall" comments.... forget it.
NormanPCN wrote on 7/13/2014, 5:17 PM
At a minimum, the K-Lite installer should do no harm by default (i.e., it should not overlay a codec that exists, it should only add new ones).

This is what happens in DirectShow (DS), or at least the way it is designed to work. By default a DS application will get the codec with the highest installed merit. A DS app can specify exactly what codec/filter they want to use regardless of merit. This is not foolproof and maybe that is why DS was discontinued/depreciated in favor of Media Foundation.

Video for Windows was replaced/depreciated back around the mid 90's, and I think one of the likely many reasons was to try and have something allowing parallel codec installs.

Installing codecs into "the system" is kind of a mess on Windows because there are so many independent systems. Install into which one? People like GoPro/Cineform typically must install into each one. I noticed GoPro Studio install Cineform codecs into Vfw, DS and Quicktime. Then you have Vegas which supposedly can use the Cineform SDK which bypasses all of the above for Cineform.

With K-lite one has to be specific about which K-lite install one is using. "Mega" installs Vfw codecs in addition to DS. Basic, Standard and Full only install DS codecs and filters.

The contents of K-lite have changed over the years. Previously it used ffdshow for DS filters. ffdshow-tryouts to be specific. ffdshow was a little bit of a mess. For a while now it has switched to the LAV DS filters. K-lite "Full" also additionally includes ffdshow for those who want it.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/13/2014, 6:29 PM
> "We have had some one call a program 'unprofessional'"

That was me so let me explain why I said that: When I download freeware and it pre-reqs more freeware, I expect that. When I download a paid program I expect it to work right out-of-the-box without me having to go looking for extra free software just to make it work. That is unprofessional packaging IMHO.

If ProDAD relies on some other libraries in order to work, they should package it up and ship it with their program just like VLC does. I just feel that would be the professional solution. The fact that K-Lite has been know to mess up Vegas Pro (which has ben documented by at least two other people in this thread as having personally happening to them) makes it seem even more unprofessional a request.

You are free to disagree but I voted with my wallet and didn't buy Mercalli V3 because of this.

~jr
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 7:06 PM
"When I download a paid program I expect it to work right out-of-the-box without me having to go looking for extra free software just to make it work"

We're going around in circles here Johnny.
If you want to work with MOV in Vegas you have to install QT. Heck... I don't think Vegas even works without installing dotnet framework anymore, does it?

Clearly Prodad survives on some open source stuff for some of its more specialized work. I don't see where the 'unprofessional' behavior there is. I would suggest though that you not look a gifthorse in the mouth because if Prodad had to supply all of its own codecs... I promise you it would be a lot more expensive.
Former user wrote on 7/13/2014, 7:31 PM
Curious, if Prodad is using free codecs, why would it be more expensive if it had to provide them as part of the install package?

If you want to open any MOV file in windows, you have to download QT, or a QT equivalent. This is not unique to Vegas so not a good comparison.
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 8:14 PM
"Curious, if Prodad is using free codecs, why would it be more expensive if it had to provide them as part of the install package?"

Just a guess but, not only would they have to write them (costs money) but they would also have to keep them up to date (costs more money). I would also imagine there are patents and license fees to worry about. Any additional cost they would incur would simply get passed on to the consumer.

Not withstanding, their job is about creating filters, not codecs.
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 8:22 PM
"If you want to open any MOV file in windows, you have to download QT, or a QT equivalent. This is not unique to Vegas so not a good comparison." It not being unique makes it not a good example?? You'll have to explain that.

There are lots of codecs Vegas doesn't have. Some can get away with using the ones that are supplied, some can't and have to install... same difference.

Prodad is no different. If your work is basic then you don't need anything in addition but if your work is a bit more specific....
Former user wrote on 7/13/2014, 8:28 PM
so when you made the statement about the cost going up if they provided the "free codecs' as part of their package, you were just creating a "fear" that they might go up? (and you did promise me it would go up)

fear·mon·ger·ing
noun: fearmongering; noun: fear-mongering
the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.
Former user wrote on 7/13/2014, 8:31 PM
When I mentioned not being unique, from what I have read on this thread it sounds like Prodad is requiring that you download codecs before you can use it, but I don't use it so I may be out of line.

I have not found any codecs, other than QT, that I needed that Vegas didn't have, so if someone could name the lots that are missing, I can decide if I need them.

But it sounds like you are saying that Prodad only needs to download the K-Lite if you need a specific codec not already on your system, is that right?
Rob Franks wrote on 7/13/2014, 10:57 PM
"so when you made the statement about the cost going up if they provided the "free codecs' as part of their package, you were just creating a "fear" that they might go up? (and you did promise me it would go up)"
Point taken

"so if someone could name the lots that are missing,"
QT, Avid, Lagarith, MSU off the top of my head.

But then let's also remember Vegas is in the specific business of among other things, rendering to a wide selection of formats. Vegas without as wide a selection of codecs as possible would be a lot like a car without tires.

Once again, Prodad is about filters, not codecs and rendering to different formats.

I don't have Prodad installed anymore but if I remember correctly it could do the basics (DVavi and I think hdv) without any codec pack installed. If you want to do native mts on the other hand you need the codec pack.
diverG wrote on 7/14/2014, 4:23 AM
Over the years there have been many warnings regarding the k-lite codec pack.

Surely the easy answer to installing any codec packs deemed necessary by their associated programmes is to make an image of your system prior to installing said codec pack. Once installed test to your best ability.

If things go wrong then simply restore your image.

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