YouTube high quality, Mbps vs AVC vs HEVC vs 1440 vs 2160, headdesk

michael-harrison wrote on 10/28/2020, 11:45 AM

So I recently uploaded a driving video to YT at 1080p and discovered that YT compressed the everlovin' c**p out of it and basically made the video not remotely worth posting.

One member suggested rendering to 4k and uploading that. Well, ok. 2hr AVC video at 59Mbps and 52GB later, it took several hours to upload, to be expected, and 5 days later YT is still chewing on the HD version.

Ok, maybe try the HEVC magic bullet to reduce the file size. The resulting HEVC using the same parameters is about the same size. I'd *guess* because of all the constant motion resulting in the codec really not being able to optimize much.

In small comparison renders of 34 seconds I'm finding that with this video HEVC files are consistently larger than AVC with the same params.

I don't have full HOS nor have I looked for a different ffmpeg script to try VP9 but thought I'd ask here before potentially going down that rabbit hole.

I'm wondering if I just ended up with a edge case that's just not going to look good anywhere except from a file played locally.

This isn't typical of my normal videos and I'm starting to think all this isn't worth the effort just so my dad and 2 dozen subscribers can see the fall color here in Appalachia.

First YT result:

mediainfo for the source:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Vegas Projects (c)\Parkway Leaf Peeping\GH050303.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 1
Codec ID                                 : mp41 (mp41)
File size                                : 3.73 GiB
Duration                                 : 8 min 51 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 60.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-15 17:38:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-15 17:38:55

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 8 min 51 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.241
Stream size                              : 3.71 GiB (100%)
Title                                    : GoPro AVC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-15 17:38:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-15 17:38:55
Color range                              : Limited
colour_range_Original                    : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

MI for the first 4k upload: (that's still YT processing after 5d)

General
Complete name                            : E:\temp\Parkway Leaf Peeping 1.1.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 50.0 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 59 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 59.8 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 h 59 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.241
Stream size                              : 49.9 GiB (100%)
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

MI for lower bps AVC test:

General
Complete name                            : E:\temp\Parkway Leaf Peeping 1.2.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 20.1 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 0 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 24.0 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-24 21:55:34
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-24 21:55:34

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 h 0 min
Source duration                          : 2 h 0 min
Bit rate                                 : 23.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.096
Stream size                              : 20.0 GiB (99%)
Source stream size                       : 20.0 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-24 21:55:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-24 21:55:37
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

MI for HEVC version of last:

General
Complete name                            : E:\temp\Parkway Leaf Peeping HEVC.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 20.3 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 0 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 24.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-27 15:22:26
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-27 15:22:26

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 h 0 min
Source duration                          : 2 h 0 min
Bit rate                                 : 24.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.096
Stream size                              : 20.1 GiB (99%)
Source stream size                       : 20.1 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-10-27 15:22:30
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-10-27 15:22:30
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

AVC settings

HEVC settings

Comments

john-brown wrote on 10/28/2020, 12:22 PM

Hi Michael,

YouTube does not compress the crap out of your video, it creates several versions at different resolutions. The user can select the resolution; with Auto, YT presents the resolution that will likely play back the smoothest depending on the speed of your internet connection. You have no control over this. I suggest that you review the Help screens on YT.

On my laptop, connected to WiFi (slow today for some reason), I first got the lowest resolution, then the second lowest resolution when I moved closer to the router. I could get 1080 on my desktop connected directly to the box. So, creating a 4K version or playing around with your render settings will not have any impact for most viewers.

John CB

michael-harrison wrote on 10/28/2020, 12:29 PM

@john-brown Thanks John, I'm aware of those variables and in my viewing tests accounted for them. All my testing was with the 1080p version. I'm on a hardwired connection and average 70Mbps connection to YT using their stats.

john_dennis wrote on 10/28/2020, 12:45 PM

@michael-harrison

"I'm wondering if I just ended up with a edge case that's just not going to look good anywhere except from a file played locally."

I keep quoting the Eagles:

"You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave."

"This isn't typical of my normal videos and I'm starting to think all this isn't worth the effort just so my dad and 2 dozen subscribers can see the fall color here in Appalachia."

Buy your Dad one of these:

https://www.frys.com/product/10014081?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG&requestComingFromSearch=true

and mail him a microSD card with the content so he can play it on his iDevice.

michael-harrison wrote on 10/28/2020, 4:03 PM

@john_dennis how do you know he has an iDevice? Are you spying on him? Are you with the NSA?

<puts tinfoil hat back on> You won't get me!

Former user wrote on 10/28/2020, 8:57 PM

encode in high quality the first 60 seconds, upload 1440p and 4k version unlisted, see how they look in comparison to 1080p upload

michael-harrison wrote on 10/29/2020, 12:30 PM

@Former user After your reply I re-did some short testing and added 1440 to the mix.

Uploading hevc encoded 60s versions resulted in YT re-encoding them using vp9 rather than avc and they all look tons better. I can't try at the moment but wonder if YT would change an hevc 1080 to avc. I'll try later and report back.

Former user wrote on 10/29/2020, 9:39 PM

I tried hevc upload 1080p30 and 60, neither are served as VP9 to the player. VP9 is created but not used for windows chrome or android youtube app. This is different to 1440p uploads where the vp9 encode is available to players at 1080p

michael-harrison wrote on 10/31/2020, 11:17 AM

@Former user well, my HEVC 1140 version worked tons better than the original avc version.

File size was about the same at 21G and it uploaded over several hours.

One other big difference is the HD version was available within 24hrs. My avc version went 6 days without finishing. Could be coincidence but now I know to go with hevc 1440 for future driving videos.

Former user wrote on 10/31/2020, 7:38 PM

Yes, much better, don't upload HEVC unless you have a reason to , such as a lack of upload bandwidth, it slows down the youtube encoding process and does not advantage quality of encode compared to AVC, as far as I know

michael-harrison wrote on 11/1/2020, 3:38 PM

@Former user Well, I only have one event to draw data from and it could have been coincidence but in this case uploading HEVC seemed to make the processing go faster.

I'll have more data once I finish editing my next 2hr video.

Former user wrote on 11/1/2020, 8:15 PM

HEVC upload is 20% slower to encode. That turns out to be a much longer wait when YT is encoding a 2 hour video to vp9

michael-harrison wrote on 11/2/2020, 12:38 AM

@Former user I wish I had a way to find out why the equivalent avc resulted in a 6+ day wait for hd encoding.

Former user wrote on 11/2/2020, 12:57 AM

Probably just bad luck. If you modify your video in anyway after the initial SD render you'll go onto a depriotised render which can take days to encode or may not ever encode. In such a scenario you are best using the 'save copy' command, which will render at normal priority.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 11/2/2020, 3:35 PM

I uploaded a near 2-hour yt premier last month encoded 1440p avc (mc encode) and also noticed it took about 6 days before the vp9 version showed up. But a 1080p avc version appeared in about 36 hours in time for the event. Since then I've been uploading mostly 10- to 20-minute 1440p hevc stuff and occasional 2560p hevc clips and have not noticed long delays. Doing all my uploads now to yt and vimeo hevc encoded with amd. Mostly because they look better. Vimeo doesn't have vp9 yet and all it's uploads seem to end up getting streamed avc... but they still look better than material originally uploaded avc. I noticed that after I originally uploaded a copy of the yt premier to vimeo avc (so my catv syndication clients can download) but later re-encoded and replaced it there with hvec. Unfortunately yt doesn't let me replace a video so that one's still based on the original avc.

Former user wrote on 11/2/2020, 7:58 PM

I just tried a 1 minute 1440p clip, these are encoding times until completion of 1440p copy. I know we don't really care about the 1440p copy, but that's when YT automatically tells me , I'd have to manually keep checking for the 1080P vp9

1440p avc mp4 11.30

1440p avc mp4 (fast start/progressive download) 12:30

1440p avc mkv 12:43

1440p HEVC (fast start/progressive download) 14:08

Not sure those figures make much sense. Traditionally mkv and fast start video would be fastest

I"ll try uploading a 1 hour hevc and AVC check for anything interesting

Former user wrote on 11/2/2020, 11:44 PM

These are the encoding times on a 30min 1440p30fps video

upload of AVC 1440p - 1h35m until both 1440p vp9 and 1080p vp9 automatically plays

upload of HEVC 1440p 1h34m until both 1440p vp9 and 1080p vp9 automatically plays

Note the 1080vp9 is available to play long before youtube tells you the HD processing is complete.

That was an interesting test. seems like there is no disadvantage to uploading in HEVC, and for VCE hardware encoding people that is a great advantage due to increased speed and quality of HEVC in comparison to AVC with older AMD cards

michael-harrison wrote on 11/3/2020, 8:54 AM

@Former user How many subscribers do you have? YT plays all sorts of games with accounts with few subscribers, of which my main channel is one, and I wonder if you're benefiting from more subs.

I've got 40 on the channel in question and my latest 2.5hr upload is entering day 2 of processing :-(

Former user wrote on 11/3/2020, 9:13 AM

A bit over 10K subs, I"ll test the idea that encoding may be faster due to subs/channel views by uploading again to a channel with no subs soon, and if that uploads in similar time i'll try a 2 hour upload to see if that's penalised whereas shorter videos are not

michael-harrison wrote on 11/4/2020, 10:42 AM

@Former user Well, I am now 2 for 2 with your suggestion of not touching *anything* while a long video uploads. Just click through all the defaults (which in my case includes "unlisted" for the status) and let YT chew on the video until it's done.

I tried uploading my final 2.5hr video a few days ago and it was still spinning on the HD versions nearly two days in. It was part of a batch upload and I did modify the description and a few other details as it was uploading.

I uploaded a new copy yesterday and just left everything alone and within 24hrs (it finished overnight and even though I can't sleep well through the U.S. national disaster, I wasn't at the computer to see the exact time) it was done and all expected resolutions were available.

I'll just make this a habit not to do anything with long videos until YT is done processing.

I'm reasonably happy with the visual quality at both 1080 and 1440 so I'm going to count this process a success and note it for the future.

General
Complete name                            : U:\Parkway Leaf Peeping 2.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 26.5 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 24.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:31

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Source duration                          : 2 h 37 min
Bit rate                                 : 23.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.216
Stream size                              : 26.3 GiB (99%)
Source stream size                       : 26.3 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:35
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:35
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 2 h 37 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 280 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 213 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:35
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-01 22:34:35

michael-harrison wrote on 2/2/2021, 4:33 AM

Not exactly a surprise but apparently YT has changed something yet again.

My latest couple of uploads using the methods above have taken about 12hrs for the 1440p version to become available.

For 4-5m videos.

Getting close to time to play settings roulette again to see what the upload sweet spot has become.