4k video choppy after render- base video looks good.

JD-RC wrote on 5/14/2023, 10:24 PM

Hello.

Having a huge issue with my videos appearing choppy after I render.

Have tried just about every imageable render/video setting...but I can't get this figured out.

I posted two unlisted 4k video links.

Have tried rendering this in 2k and HD and it will still have this choppiness.

The 1st 4k video is a direct file upload (from phone to pc to Y.T.). It runs smooth as glass on my pc and in the Youtube video (sorry 1st video is full length) you might need to pull down to 4k quality.

 

2nd video is after I render it in Vegas 19. You can really see it when the car gets up on the deck. Settings used in beginning of video

Really not sure what to do here but would really appreciate a hand.

 

Video shot with a Galaxy s23 in 4k60 mode

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K   3.60 GHz/Win11

48 gb ram

2080ti

Comments

RogerS wrote on 5/14/2023, 11:58 PM

Can you confirm what the source video is with MediaInfo? https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 2:36 AM

Try to render with this default one - my machine has no Intel-CPU, so it's pure CPU computing:

If OK, then this default one - with GPU:

AVC is not a good codec for delivery.
Besides, your average 65mbps is a "Bärenhilfe" in AVC.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 5/15/2023, 2:43 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

Todd-A0 wrote on 5/15/2023, 4:36 AM

@JD-RC Would you be able to upload your original camera file that you uploaded to youtube to a file sharing site so others can try it?

It's probably a combination of Vegas's hilariously bad hardware encoder (frame from your video)

and variable frame rate from your phone, BUT Youtube didn't have a problem converting your phone footage to useable 60FPS constant frame rate so I'd like to check if this is also a Vegas problem with how badly it handles VFR compared to other editors. No NLE likes VFR but maybe some are worse than others at handling it

 

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 5:40 AM

Thanks all. I will try and do the suggested things after work today. I appreciate the help with this tremendously.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/15/2023, 6:23 AM

Frankly spoken, I do not see much difference between the two videos. Could you be so kind and describe it again better to me, what is not ok for you?

I see some blocking artefacts, but that seems to be in both videos.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * Atomos Sumo * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor
HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 6:41 AM

Frankly spoken, I do not see much difference between the two videos. Could you be so kind and describe it again better to me, what is not ok for you?

I see some blocking artefacts, but that seems to be in both videos.

Best way to see it is when the car gets up in the deck, the fence in the rendered video studders or gets choppy.

It is doing this throughout the render in other spots of the video but I did not want to make everyone sit through a long video twice. It's just nowhere as smooth as the original file. I assumed it was a 4k rendering issue and hardware that could not handle it but is does it rendered in lower resolutions as well.

I can clearly see the difference on 2k and 4k screens (no so much on my cell phone). It's almost like it's dropping a significant amount of frames (sorry I don't know the technical term for this). Obviously the screen grab posted (with the pixelation) is an issue as well and it's doing that in other spots of the render.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/15/2023, 6:56 AM

Could you be so kind and make a snapshoot of the relevant part of the video? And load it up here?

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * Atomos Sumo * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor
HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 7:02 AM

Try to render with this default one - my machine has no Intel-CPU, so it's pure CPU computing:

 

Just tried and same results (choppy video).

I will also do a few of the other things suggested.

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 7:08 AM

Could you be so kind and make a snapshoot of the relevant part of the video? And load it up here?

I can later today...but for now look at 0:11/0:12 (car on the deck) in the 1st video.

Then 0:21/0:22 on the 2nd video. When the camera follows the car you can see how choppy the fence gets compared to the 1st video.

These micro studders appear throughout the full rendered video and are not in the non rendered video.

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 7:32 AM

Can you confirm what the source video is with MediaInfo? https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 801 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 49 s
Overall bit rate                         : 61.6 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Performer                                : Galaxy S23 Ultra
Encoded date                             : 2023-05-14 17:27:05 UTC

com.android.version                      : 13

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 49 s
Source duration                          : 1 min 49 s
Bit rate                                 : 61.3 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.840 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 60.241 FPS
Real frame rate                          : 60.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.123
Stream size                              : 798 MiB (100%)
Source stream size                       : 798 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2023-05-14 17:27:05 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-05-14 17:27:05 UTC
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
mdhd_Duration                            : 109161
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 min 49 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.33 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
 

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:17 AM

Downloaded your Ytube video in VP9-4kMKV format and transcoded into ProRes.
Then imported into VEGAS, project settings exactly as yours, rendered with the 2nd default one (GPU, shown above).

No jitters observed.

I'm also very sensitive about such jitters/choppiness, in my past experience there were only 2 cases occurred with such jitters: AVC encoding and fxVideoStabilization in improper setting.
I assume your source footage has no problem.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 5/15/2023, 8:25 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

mark-y wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:21 AM

Your source video is 60.000, your Project is 59.940. That will decimate one frame every 17 seconds. There may be other things at play, if you'll provide the media info for the rendered file as well.

One other thing you can try is the Magix software encoder instead of Nvidia. It will take longer to render, but worth comparing.

Going forward, it is better to upload your example video files to Google Drive or Dropbox, which do not process your video on their servers.

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:25 AM

Your source video is 60.000, your Project is 59.940. That will decimate one frame every 17 seconds. There may be other things at play, if you'll provide the media info for the rendered file as well.

Thought of that as well lastnight...I did try at 60 fps (made no difference). Will work on getting all needed data posted.

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:33 AM

Maybe the 2080GPU and its driver?

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:34 AM

Downloaded your Ytube video in VP9-4kMKV format and transcoded into ProRes.
Then imported into VEGAS, project settings exactly as yours, rendered with the 2nd default one (GPU, shown above).

No jitters observed.

I'm also very sensitive about such jitters/choppiness, in my past experience there were only 2 cases occurred with such jitters: AVC encoding and fxVideoStabilization in improper setting.
I assume your source footage has no problem.

 

Got to be honest ... I don't know what Ytube video in"VP9-4kMKV format and transcoded into ProRes" means (Googling now) .

I have gone from making vertical 1080p videos to trying to render 4k stuff with 4 to 6 cameras sliced in within a two year period. I really appreciate all that you guys know and the help given...my learning curve is a bit on the slow side though so it may take a bit for me to figure out this stuff. Willing to try everything recommended. I really enjoy this hobby (making videos) so I want to get it looking as best as I can. The what seem like small studders drive me crazy.

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:41 AM

😁😁that's the closest one to your origins.
Keep cool, we all have had this learning course behind us.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:48 AM

Could you be so kind and make a snapshoot of the relevant part of the video? And load it up here?

I can later today...but for now look at 0:11/0:12 (car on the deck) in the 1st video.

Then 0:21/0:22 on the 2nd video. When the camera follows the car you can see how choppy the fence gets compared to the 1st video.

These micro studders appear throughout the full rendered video and are not in the non rendered video.

I have done so - but still see no difference. Maybe the youtube encoder kills the difference.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * Atomos Sumo * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor
HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:48 AM

😁😁that's the closest one to your origins.
Keep cool, we all have had this learning course behind us.

Thanks so much. I have had Resolve on my pc for years and it looks like "transcode" changes are fairly straight forward. I can try in there as well if that's easier. I don't like the editing in Resolve but am willing to use it for conversions ect.

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:53 AM

I transcoded it in XMedia Recode, a free App.

The reason for transcoding is that VEGAS can't deal with VP9.
I hate Resolve, tooo!

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 5/15/2023, 8:58 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 10:49 AM

I just tried rendering a small clip in DaVinci using "QuickTime"/H.264 at 4k and it looks just about as nice as the direct file. So I assume this is telling me it is an actual an issue in Vegas that either is set wrong or Vegas does not like my pc. I also tried re-installing 19 to no avail.

I do have my old Vegas18 license and can see if it's a 19 thing...but would also assume that would be futile.

Bouncing clips from one program to another is probably not a thing I would like to be doing.

Will try adding that MOV file to Vegas and rendering it next.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/15/2023, 11:39 AM

@JD-RC You might try examining the render from Vegas and making sure the frame rate and bit rate is similar to your hevc source. Not sure that will fix anything because the s23 source is VFR. It might pay to transcode that source into Constant Frame Rate before pulling it into Vegas... many folks recommend Shutter Encoder which is free. You might also look in the S23 settings and see if you have the switch Auto FPS enabled... I think that uses VFR more based on lighting but your metadata shows a very narrow VFR range, so in theory, that should not be a problem. Another thing to try if you want to stick with Hevc, is to set the camera to high bitrate... I think that'll bump the bitrate up to around 100 and make it harder to play and edit in Vegas without a proxy, but should make it look better on render. If you're not married to hevc, try shooting with the camera set uhd 30 and turning off the setting for High Efficiency Videos... that should give you AVC which will ease editing and maybe YT will like the renders better. Kind of odd that camera marks 60fps clips as PAL.

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 11:53 AM

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

JD-RC wrote on 5/15/2023, 1:05 PM

Looks great! Gonna spend some time tonight making that workflow a bit quicker for me. Also will try the things Howard suggested...maybe if I can stop the issue on the camera side of things I wont need to transcode.

Really appreciate all the help here guys.

Yelandkeil wrote on 5/15/2023, 1:27 PM

Again, the transcoding is only because of the re-download of that VP9.
If I had the original footage, it would be more better.
Find out what's not proper of your HW e.g. GPU-driver and/or settings in VEGAS.

Cheers.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys & 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-Adrenalin 24.2.1
Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPorts
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Exposure=Manual, Shutter100, ISO320
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB5500K, Shutter120, ISO400

Windows11Pro 23H2-22631.3235
Direct3D® DriverVersion 9.17.11.0260 (API=12.2)

Vegaspro21 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.065 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback)