Bit Rate as a Function of Complexity: Constant Rate Factor Encoding

Comments

relaxvideo wrote on 1/21/2025, 1:43 AM

thank!

A great article in this subject: https://ottverse.com/what-is-cbr-vbr-crf-capped-crf-rate-control-explained/

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

relaxvideo wrote on 1/21/2025, 1:51 AM

BitrateViewer doesn't tell us much about HEVC renders.

This is exactly the reason I created the FFBitrateViewer :)

Cool, i use it since a few months, thanks!

It would be nice to always show the current bitrate value when i move the mouse horizontally, not just when i move it to the graph to the green line. So no need to move mouse up/down.
Possible? :)

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

relaxvideo wrote on 1/21/2025, 2:09 AM

Oh no, i just checked Voukoder site and no more free version only Pro? :(

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 1/21/2025, 2:19 AM

It's still possible to download from elsewhere.

EricLNZ wrote on 1/21/2025, 3:26 AM

It's still possible to download from elsewhere

The answer is in this link, fifth post down

https://www.voukoder.org/forum/thread/1509-where-is-the-voukoder-download/

relaxvideo wrote on 1/27/2025, 3:02 AM

I dont see this VBV maxbitrate parameter in h264 or h264 while using NVENC on 1660Ti.

Is it not supported? I can select only with cpu encoding.

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 1/27/2025, 3:41 AM

x264 is a lot more flexible than what NVIDIA offers with NVENC (just checked Voukoder with my 4060.)

relaxvideo wrote on 1/28/2025, 10:09 AM

yes, and much much slower :)

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 1/28/2025, 6:59 PM

By design!

relaxvideo wrote on 1/29/2025, 10:34 AM

yes, i know..

but often dont have the needed time.

Is it a general nvidia issue or better cards, like 4xxx can encode capped CRF?

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 1/29/2025, 8:29 PM

Nope, I tested with my RTX 4060 and Voukoder. The GPU takes shortcuts to speed things up so that's the tradeoff.

relaxvideo wrote on 2/4/2025, 2:28 AM

i asked this on reddit, and here an answer was this:

"cq (constant quality) is the NVENC equivalent of CRF
You can use VBR mode with cq and set max bitrate with -maxrate <bitrate>"

So what about Voukoder?

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2025, 5:12 AM

With Voukoder 13.4.1. if you enable VBR mode, CQ disappears and you can set bitrates. It's either/or.

relaxvideo wrote on 2/4/2025, 5:18 AM

But i dont want to set bitrates, only max-bitrate and average should depend on scene.
So the gpu can do capped cq, only not with Voukoder.

"The GPU takes shortcuts to speed things"

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2025, 5:29 AM

I only have the tools built into VEGAS and Voukoder. x264 has a lot more options than NVENC and I take advantage of that. NVENC rate controls are apparently handled in firmware so features may vary by GPU and firmware revision. (Is this rate control method new? If so from when?)

I suggest going to https://www.voukoder.org/ and asking what Voukoder Pro can do and with which GPUs.

relaxvideo wrote on 2/4/2025, 5:36 AM

ok, thx

#1 Ryzen 5-1600, 16GB DDR4, Nvidia 1660 Super, M2-SSD, Acer freesync monitor

#2 i7-2600, 32GB, Nvidia 1660Ti, SSD for system, M2-SSD for work, 2x4TB hdd, LG 3D monitor +3DTV +3D projectors

Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/4/2025, 3:06 PM

I'm not sure that variable-cap bit-rate optimization, which was developed for Avc HD lossy camera footage, does much but lower performance and quality for 4k and above. 4k 10-bit avc is so large, slower editing, and lower in quality, I only shoot or render that as a last resort. Measurements I've done on my own 4k raw footage always yields both the best performance and quality with cbr hevc rendering. X265 gives me the highest quality, but unfortunately only via ffmpeg-direct. And not via any plugins to Vegas or even Resolve plugin or native. Same for ffmpeg-direct via Vegas frame-server. Hevc_nvenc via ffmpeg-direct is quicker but much lower in quality. I tend to use it more for test renders. So I use slower Vegas MainConcept native for delivery which comes pretty close to ffmpeg x265 quality and performance.

Keep in mind that Voukoder implements only a subset of ffmpeg library functions and parameters. For a better idea of what the h264_nvenc encoder is capable of, save a parameter listing with the following ffmpeg command:

ffmpeg -hide_banner -help encoder=h264_nvenc > ffmpeg-nvenc.txt

Also, keep in mind that ffmpeg encoders themselves are not updated all that often. So some bug fixes and additions may need to be activated in the C-library output stream. Rigaya is another ffmpeg library-level developer who does all of that regularly in its own custom cli, often fixing stuff and adding capabilities the ffmpeg cli never seems to get around to. If you really want to see a more extensive Nvenc encoder capability listing, look here:

https://github.com/rigaya/NVEnc/blob/master/NVEncC_Options.en.md

I've suggested to the Voukoder developer that he tap into both Rigaya and ffmpeg implementations, if locally installed. I understand Voukoder Pro will be doing that with the locally installed ffmpeg cli to avoid restrictions on using their code directly in a commercial app.

As of late, however, I've been seeing much better performance with close to x265 quality transcoding to Av1_nvenc with ffmpeg-direct. No corners cut there. But still the quality-hit via plugins, however. Also, I've already tried test uploads of av1_nvenc transcodes... YouTube ate em up and processed them more quickly than any other format. If Vegas ever implements a native AV1 Nvenc preset like that, I'd switch my YouTube delivery workflow in a heartbeat.

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2025, 8:12 PM

I searched and found the NVIDIA documentation as well for what's possible:
https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/11.1/nvenc-video-encoder-api-prog-guide/index.html

The option that seems most relevant is labeled "Target quality" rate control.

FFMpeg should be getting the latest support for the 50XX GPUs and I assume Voukoder Pro will inherent those capabilities, but not Voukoder which is discontinued.

bitman wrote on 2/7/2025, 6:28 AM

Great post! I have been re-reading this post already a few times over and over again, and also over several days! I have recently removed Voukoder classic (which I used to use for rendering) and got me Voukoder pro. I am in the process of building Voukoder pro "scenes", so this post is helpful.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 suite (VP 22 build 194) VP 21 build 315, VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 17 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2025, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 18, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner studio X, DXO photolab (8), Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 24H2 (since October 2024)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K),
  • Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 G2 HBC (September 2024 upgrade from Noctua NH-D15s)
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2