New Vegas Machine

Widetrack wrote on 8/29/2019, 4:07 PM

I'm trying to put a new box together that will make VP17 work as advertised, and not crash a lot. I won't be on Urgent Deadlines, using dozens of tracks, doing long projects, or building up huge piles of interacting, world-shaking effects.

I would like to use Vegas's color correcting/grading, track motion, cool transitions and other efx, mostly in 4k drone footage.

I went to a few websites and put together a proposed system. Some of these are semi-informed choices, thanks mostly to the very helpful posts on the thread about spending Grazie's dosh. Thank you, one and all.

About other stuff -- cooler, MOBO, PSU, Case, e.g. -- I am shooting in the dark as to their functionality, compatibility, relative cost and other stuff about which I don't even know what I don't know.

Basically, I'd like thoughts on whether this system would work well, and if I've under-estimated or over-estiamted what I need.

I would appreciate constructive comments about any or all items on this list, including any suggestions on functionality and costs.

This system looks to cost just under $1500.

  1. CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor
  2. GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB Video Card
  3. RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
  4. MOBO: Asus PRIME H310-PLUS ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
  5. SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5” Solid State Drive
  6. FAN: Corsair H100i PRO 75 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
  7. BOX: DIYPC J180-W ATX Mid Tower Case
  8. PSU: Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
  9. OS: Windows 10

Comments

j-v wrote on 8/29/2019, 4:11 PM

For video editing 1 harddrive for all possible tasks should be for me not enough.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Widetrack wrote on 8/29/2019, 4:16 PM

Good point. I'm planning (hoping) to use a couple of 1TB, external USB drives, one an SSD, the other an HDD, or in a pinch, an internal 1TB HDD I already have.

john_dennis wrote on 8/29/2019, 5:55 PM

I just replaced the hard drive in my wife's laptop (which I might use for editing if we ever leave the house again).

Crucial 250GB MX500 2.5" Internal SSD (Boot Disk)

Crucial 500GB P1 NVMe M.2 Internal SSD (Project Source) 

The cost was ~$117 plus tax, no shipping. Though this NVMe disk is not the fastest on the market, it will be significantly faster than the one SATA disk that you listed.

I like to boot from a moderate sized disk, SATA is fine, and leave all project files on other disks. It makes saving system image backups easier. On my workstation, I boot from a 250GB Corsair Force LE and use an Intel 750 for video. That's not the low cost solution, though. Brands don't mean a lot to me.

Widetrack wrote on 8/29/2019, 11:38 PM

john_dennis: I've saved all my data files on non-startup disks for a while--everything from Word files to video projects. But I had the impression that the disk where my OS was installed had to be pretty fast.

Just to clarify: Are you saying that the system disk does not necessarily have to the fastest one you have? I suppose with video files getting as big as they are, that might be the case.

Thank you for the reply.

 

 

john_dennis wrote on 8/30/2019, 2:43 AM

1) NVMe disks excel at very large file transfers with deep queues.

2) The difference between SATA and NVMe for small file transfers is less dramatic.

The O/S and applications are riddled with small files. Though the NVMe disk is faster overall, you're less likely to notice a difference if the O/S and applications are on a SATA SSD. The motherboard you have has only one M.2 slot. Verify that it supports NVMe before you buy.

Martin L wrote on 8/30/2019, 3:21 AM

I also appreciate all thoughts as I am about to get a new Veg 17 box built as soon as possible. I explained this in my thread Help Martin to spend his dimes wisely. I'll follow this one too.:)

Widetrack wrote on 8/30/2019, 9:08 AM

1) NVMe disks excel at very large file transfers with deep queues.

2) The difference between SATA and NVMe for small file transfers is less dramatic.

The O/S and applications are riddled with small files. Though the NVMe disk is faster overall, you're less likely to notice a difference if the O/S and applications are on a SATA SSD. The motherboard you have has only one M.2 slot. Verify that it supports NVMe before you buy.


Thank you for that, John. I basically picked that MOBO because it's not too expensive. Are there any other features/functions a MOBO needs for Vegas? I'm not really sue what you're saying about SATA vs NVMe disks. It sounds like NVMes would be better for a non-OS disk used for file storage and video playback. Would the SATA be better for the OS?

I can't read the image you posted. Can you tell me what info it has?

BTW, I'm also guessing about the PSU and Fan. How do I tell how much I need there?

john_dennis wrote on 8/30/2019, 12:15 PM

@Widetrack

"I basically picked that MOBO because it's not too expensive."

I thought you might be price sensitive. That's why is suggested a moderately priced SATA and NVMe combination for storage devices since I just bought these two devices. I put them in a laptop so I wasn't going for the pinnacle of performance. The laptop chipset has an 1800 MB/s bus limitation which matched the limit of the Crucial NVMe disk well. The NVMe disk will improve performance where it's really needed; large file transfers.

"It sounds like NVMes would be better for a non-OS disk used for file storage and video playback."

Actually, NVMe disks are somewhat better in every respect. Because of the price premium, it's best to use them where they will do the most good.

If you choose to stay with a single 1 TB disk and partition it into a Boot partition and a Data partition, Consider this:

Crucial 1TB P1 NVMe M.2 Internal SSD for $99.95 or...

Samsung 1TB 970 EVO NVMe M.2 Internal SSD for $169.99.

"I don't personally think the Samsung price premium is warranted." he said, after spending $349 for a 400 GB Intel 750 thirty months ago.

"I can't read the image you posted."

Did you click or double click on it so the host site presents the full resolution image?

My next upgrade is Q1 2021. I refuse to even look at a motherboard for another year. Only two things have caused me to read about future hardware...

1) 10 GBe 2) DDR5 to support the bandwidth requirements for massive numbers of cores.

john_dennis wrote on 8/30/2019, 12:21 PM

PS

No matter what type of device you use for your O/S-Application drive, you can always move most of your pagefile and application work spaces to your fastest disk up to the point of contention with other processes.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/30/2019, 7:46 PM

If I only have one motherboard m.2, I get a 512gb MVMe and make it my c: drive for the os. But pcie m.2 boards are plentiful and cheap so you can always throw one in an x4 slot for a work d: drive... I usually go for a 2tb one there. But the truth is that Vegas doesn't really perform any differently if you use a high quality sata ssd like a Samsung 860 for your work drive and they are less expensive, come in higher capacities, and don't run as hot.

Widetrack wrote on 8/31/2019, 2:37 PM

john_dennis: Thank you for the help. I'm slowly starting to get the details of this. I have a couple questions, if you would be so kind.

"...you can always move most of your pagefile and application work spaces to your fastest disk up to the point of contention with other processes." I have almost no idea what "pagefile and application work spaces" mean or how I would determine degree of "contention with etc...".

"1) 10 GBe 2) DDR5 to support the bandwidth requirements for massive numbers of cores." Can you say this in simpler terms, please?

I get that 4k video needs huge storage/memory space and fast-as-possible data transfer, apparently satisfied only by SSD storage. The systems I see often have an SSD where the OS and Apps reside, and one SATA HDD, presumably for longer-term storage. So is the workflow to load new footage onto the SSD, create the .veg file, do all the editing off the SSD, then finally store the whole mess on the SATA drive?

Thnx again for all your help.

Tim

Widetrack wrote on 8/31/2019, 2:49 PM

I found this. does it look like a competent system for editing 4k and a reasonable price?

Dell XPS Tower Special Edition

  • 9th Gen Intel® Core™ i7 9700 (8-Core, 12MB Cache, up to 4.7GHz with Intel® Turbo Boost Technology)
  • Windows 10 Home 64bit English
  • NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 6GB GDDR6
  • 8GB DDR4 at 2666MHz; up to 64GB (Additional memory sold separately)
  • 256GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD (Boot)
  • 2TB 7200RPM 3.5" SATA HDD (Storage)
  • $1,371.99

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-desktop-computers/xps-tower-special-edition/spd/xps-8930-se-desktop

No visible specs for the MOBO, only 8Gb DDR4 RAM, don't know what the "GDDR6" means on the GeForce.

j-v wrote on 8/31/2019, 3:02 PM

NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 6GB GDDR6

Are you a gamer?

Otherwise I would go for a GTX (1660??)

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Widetrack wrote on 8/31/2019, 3:13 PM

No Gaming. Whatsoever.

That sounds like good advice, but this is a pre-packaged, as-is, take-it-or-leave it, thumbs-up-or-thumbs-down system.

If it will do well with VP17, and isn't over-priced, it would save me a lot of pain, problems and work.

What do you think?

j-v wrote on 8/31/2019, 3:53 PM

In a few weeks I also let a new desktop build for me.
My choices are a little else

- Intel Core i7 (8. Gen.) 8700 / 3.2 GHz (12M Cache, up to 4.6 GHz with Intel Turbo Boost Technology)
- Windows 10 Home
- 16 GB Intern geheugen
-  Behuizing inclusief voeding
- Taal toetsenbord optioneel
-   NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti
-  HDD capaciteit 1 x 500 GB - solid state + 1x 2 TB HDD
-  16 GB DDR4
- optie voor meerdere trays voor HDD

Not the newest, not the fastest, but I think I will not need those the coming years for my hobby editing of video's for my children, grandchildren and myself. My wife is not so interested. 😇

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Widetrack wrote on 8/31/2019, 5:18 PM

I am in the same predicament as you, from on your last, uxorial, comment.

 

john_dennis wrote on 8/31/2019, 10:36 PM

"I have almost no idea what 'pagefile and application work spaces' mean or how I would determine degree of 'contention with etc...'.

The pagefile (pagefile.sys) is a hidden file, usually in the root of the boot disk that Windows uses to manage memory. Windows can copy "pages" of data from real RAM to a hard drive to free space for O/S, applications and data. By doing, this Windows can over-subscribe real memory and allow more and/or larger applications to run without using all of real memory. Real memory has traditionally been a scarce and therefore expensive resource. Though, I have moved the pagefile on systems in the past, I haven't felt the need to do it since hard drive seek times were in the tens of milliseconds. Spend your time worrying about other things.

You could see "contention" for a disk when you have multiple applications that are reading and/or writing to the same disk. Once you reach a certain point the system spends more time trying to keep the process moving than it's worth. It might be quicker just to serialize the applications not to mention the fact that it stresses mechanical disk actuators. Here's an example of where I buried an excellent mechanical disk with reads and writes. Notice the write response time at ~90ms for many of the writes to D:. Even though the total throughput of D: is quite respectable for a mechanical disk, if your I/O is waiting for thousands of other I/Os to finish at 90ms each you might become frustrated.

"The systems I see often have an SSD where the OS and Apps reside, and one SATA HDD, presumably for longer-term storage."

Yes, the minimum configuration

"So is the workflow to load new footage onto the SSD, create the .veg file, do all the editing off the SSD, then finally store the whole mess on the SATA drive?"

Yes

" '1) 10 GBe    2) DDR5 to support the bandwidth requirements for massive numbers of cores.' Can you say this in simpler terms, please?"

10 GbE     Don't worry about it.

2) DDR5   It will probably be more than half-baked by the time I build my next machine in 2021.

On the Dell machine:

Get at least 16GB of dual channel memory. My wife's Dell laptop had 16 GB of memory but there was only one stick. I have to fix that when I get a round to it.

Widetrack wrote on 9/1/2019, 11:03 PM

Holy cow, what a data dump! Thank you John, for the tutoriial. I realized halfway through reading that I had learnt the rudiments of page files back in the dim recesses of my memory, but your discussion added more to those basics.

By "dual-channel memory" you mean two 8GB sticks instead of one 16GB stick? Spreads out the workload, I'm guessing?

Looking at the jpgs of your system, I see you have two storage devices in addition to your :C drive. I am wondering if I can get away with using the SSD holding my OS and Apps as a work disk, along with an HDD for archiive.

Alternately,would a 1TG Samsung external (USB) SSD work well as a work drive? Would its transfer speed might be a problem.

thx again for the info.

j-v wrote on 9/2/2019, 3:41 AM

@Widetrack

I am wondering if I can get away with using the SSD holding my OS and Apps as a work disk

Very important to keep it clean.
The first step I always make is to replace all the locations of C:\Users\username\ for Documents, Pictures, Video, Music a.s.o. to another Data disc.
On the Properies/Location tab of that location you find that replacement button

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

TheRhino wrote on 9/2/2019, 9:27 AM

@Widetrack

I chose the Asus Z390 WS Pro workstation-class motherboard because it has a PLX chip which manages the Z390 & 9900K's limited 16-lane architecture.  You can check my other posts for more details...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Widetrack wrote on 9/4/2019, 11:56 AM

@Widetrack

I am wondering if I can get away with using the SSD holding my OS and Apps as a work disk

Very important to keep it clean.
The first step I always make is to replace all the locations of C:\Users\username\ for Documents, Pictures, Video, Music a.s.o. to another Data disc.
On the Properies/Location tab of that location you find that replacement button

Yes! I never knew you could do that on the system level. Great suggestion!

Widetrack wrote on 9/4/2019, 11:57 AM

@Widetrack

I chose the Asus Z390 WS Pro workstation-class motherboard because it has a PLX chip which manages the Z390 & 9900K's limited 16-lane architecture.  You can check my other posts for more details...

I will definitely check out your posts. thank you.

Widetrack wrote on 9/4/2019, 1:38 PM

When I respond to someone's post, how do I get their @Soandso thing at the top?

j-v wrote on 9/4/2019, 1:50 PM

 

Before beginning to type, type the @

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)