【OFX Keyframe curve bug 】

Comments

Marco. wrote on 4/26/2018, 8:49 AM

I compared same FX in Vegas Pro and HitFilm Pro and splines work different in HitFilm Pro (linear is linear, etc.). But in HitFilm it's not OFX based. I'll test the OFX version of DFT later to see if it's the same difference.

Marco. wrote on 4/26/2018, 9:22 AM

O.k. even the OFX version of DFT behave different in Vegas Pro and HitFilm Pro when it is about spline curves. Linear is linear in HitFilm Pro and you can easily repro each fixed interpolation curve with manual splines.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 4/26/2018, 9:55 AM

To bring some factual evidence to your side of the debate instead of insinuating remarks like "I really have to wonder". Of course it's entirely up to you.

I have brought the facts to the discussion that there is no bug in the splin line itself. But in specific settings of the keyframes the interpolated figures do not act as they should, in other settings they work.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

Wolfgang S. wrote on 4/26/2018, 9:57 AM

So I tested the Stereoscopic 3D Adjust FX in VP10 (32-bit) and it has the same bug with the manual curve, so it seems to have been broken ever since it was introduced.

The bigger issue with the s3D adjustment is, that the output to nvidia 3D Vision does not work any more if the system runs with Windows 10. Beside that s3D may not be used by a lot of users anymore - since the 3D-hype is overy.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

NickHope wrote on 4/26/2018, 10:55 AM

To bring some factual evidence to your side of the debate instead of insinuating remarks like "I really have to wonder". Of course it's entirely up to you.

I have brought the facts to the discussion that there is no bug in the splin line itself. But in specific settings of the keyframes the interpolated figures do not act as they should, in other settings they work.

Assuming that by "splin lines" you mean those straight black tangent controls that the Vegas Help terms "Handles", I don't think anyone claimed there was a bug with how those generate a manual curve shape. If you thought I meant that, then that might explain our misunderstanding. To be clear, I think only that there is a bug with how the red manual curves are interpreted as parameter values.

I only tested with the S3D FX because it is the only native OFX effect in VP10.

NickHope wrote on 4/27/2018, 3:28 AM

With reference to the original post, I did manage to get a Picture-in-Picture FX to do an inelegant overshoot and "bounce back" but I think the top of the manual curve must be a couple of miles above my house:

VP15 project: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RWTp4IeG1r03zo59_OYw-3igniFZbR6Q/view?usp=sharing

Marco. wrote on 4/27/2018, 4:04 AM

This bouncing seems to be caused by kind of hidden smoothness setting, just like the smoothness setting we have for Pan/Crop and Track Motion. You'll only get this result with FX parameters which define a location (or frame size), don't you?

NickHope wrote on 4/27/2018, 4:23 AM

This bouncing seems to be caused by kind of hidden smoothness setting, just like the smoothness setting we have for Pan/Crop and Track Motion. You'll only get this result with FX parameters which define a location (or frame size), don't you?

By "bounce back" I just mean the parameter goes beyond the value at the keyframe at the end of the manual curve, then returns to it. I can make it happen with Brightness in the Brightness and Contrast FX too, using an enormous curve like the one in my last screenshot.

matthias-krutz wrote on 4/27/2018, 8:17 AM

I think the top of the manual curve must be a couple of miles above my house:

Yes it seems.

Did you test my sample project?

  If, in the case of the manually drawn curve, the determined curvature value is multiplied by approx. 150 and the linear value from the keyframe position is added to it, it seems to be correct.

Desktop: Ryzen R7 2700, RAM 32 GB, X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming, Radeon RX 5700 8GB, Win10 2004

Laptop: T420, W10, i5-2520M 4GB, SSD, HD Graphics 3000

VEGAS Pro 14-18, Movie Studio 12 Platinum, Vegasaur, HOS, HitfilmPro

NickHope wrote on 4/28/2018, 12:13 AM

I received a reply from Support that included this:

"Thank you for sending this into us. I've passed this onto our PO and Scrum Master to make sure they're aware of these issues and bring them under discussion."

matthias-krutz wrote on 9/16/2019, 8:33 AM

The old, annoying problem with manual curves seems to be solved with VP17. With these curves, soft movements can be created more intuitively now. That's a real improvement.

matthias-krutz wrote on 9/16/2019, 11:56 AM

Whether exact Bézier curve or B-spline - at least you can not change the tension. It has a default value. The length of the handles is ignored. Nevertheless, smooth transitions can be created from curve to curve.

Larger restrictions I see by the missing zoom for the curve height. It happens that knots are not visible or can not be moved sensitively enough.

Desktop: Ryzen R7 2700, RAM 32 GB, X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming, Radeon RX 5700 8GB, Win10 2004

Laptop: T420, W10, i5-2520M 4GB, SSD, HD Graphics 3000

VEGAS Pro 14-18, Movie Studio 12 Platinum, Vegasaur, HOS, HitfilmPro

NickHope wrote on 9/17/2019, 2:20 AM

Thanks for the heads up @matthias-krutz. This was actually changed in one of the VP16 releases, but was not announced in the release notes. It is the type of fix that really should have been announced, since it significantly changes the output of existing projects that use manual animation curves. So a potential nasty surprise further down the line if you upgrade from VP15 or earlier and don't keep the older version of Vegas.

The manual curve interpretation is now much more sensible. I tested by animating the location of a Picture-in-Picture FX, and the brightness of a Brightness and Contrast FX with a manual curve.

However it's worth noting that the interpretation of manual curves that mimic the standard curves is very different from the standard curves themselves. For example if I mimic the shape of a Fast Fade curve with a Manual curve, the manual curve is much faster to change the FX parameter. Or if I mimic the shape of a Slow Fade curve with a Manual curve, the manual curve is much slower to change the FX parameter. I don't think this really matters greatly, because it seems much easier now to achieve what you want using manual curves.

I'll remove it from the Known Issues list and add it to the VEGAS Pro 16 Update 5 (build 424) release notes.

I'll just add that it's very nice to get these type of old bugs fixed. Thank you MAGIX!