Opening older .veg with V13, causing issues with audio

MikeLV wrote on 1/17/2017, 11:43 AM

Has anyone ever noticed strange issues with audio when opening a .veg project with a newer version of Vegas? In my case, I am now using v13. Not sure what version I used at the time but it was in mid 2008 for this particular project. Some audio is fine, however, this one wav file is messed up. Don't know how to describe other than it's playing the file all jumbled up, like someone cut up the file and rearranged it. I tried deleting the .sfk file and it got rebuilt, but it's still not correct. What could cause this?

This is even more bizarre. I just brought in a new wav file and when I open that in the trimmer and play it, it's playing audio that isn't even contained in that file! It's a cut off an album, and there's talking in it that appears to be from elsewhere in the project. This makes no sense at all. Help!

Here's a screenshot of the peaks 😩

Comments

Nick Hope wrote on 1/17/2017, 12:33 PM

Sounds like that could be related to the dreaded "Replaced Media" bug that caused utter havoc, mostly around VP10, and finally got fixed in VP11. I come out in a cold sweat just thinking that one. Google this string for more info:

site:www.vegascreativesoftware.info "replaced media" bug

Red Prince wrote on 1/17/2017, 12:56 PM

Google this string for more info:

Just so you know, Nick, some of us value our privacy so much we would rather not find more info than use Google. So, maybe you could give us a direct link to whatever pages discuss this bug instead? Or perhaps offer a suggestion for a search string that is not Google specific?

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

MikeLV wrote on 1/17/2017, 12:57 PM

Based on some quick reading of posts related to your search, I'm not sure that it's that issue. Someone said something about the active take name being different from the actual file. But in my case, it matches. I think this is something different. Here's an encoded audio clip from the timeline. Strange thing is that what you hear in this clip is different than what I hear on the timeline in Vegas. On the timeline in Vegas, I hear a mish mash of audio from other clips on the timeline.

Red Prince wrote on 1/17/2017, 1:13 PM

I hear a mish mash of audio from other clips on the timeline.

And is the track configured for 0.0 dB?

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

MikeLV wrote on 1/17/2017, 2:35 PM

And is the track configured for 0.0 dB?

Yes, the volume slider on the track is set to 0.0dB

 

Red Prince wrote on 1/17/2017, 2:39 PM

Strange...

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

MikeLV wrote on 1/17/2017, 2:46 PM

Yeah it sure is! I wish you could hear what I'm hearing on the timeline. It's like someone chopped up all the audio tracks in the project, randomized all the pieces and assembled them into one one file and played it. FORTUNATELY, it only appears to be happening wherever I used audio that wasn't part of the original video. For example, background wav audio during a credit roll sequence. The meat of the DVD was DV AVI so all that audio appears to be ok.

Nick Hope wrote on 1/18/2017, 4:24 AM

Google this string for more info:

Just so you know, Nick, some of us value our privacy so much we would rather not find more info than use Google. So, maybe you could give us a direct link to whatever pages discuss this bug instead? Or perhaps offer a suggestion for a search string that is not Google specific?

It's not Google-specific. Other search engines support "site:", but they can't find the threads. Anyway I compromised my own privacy to find you these 😉 ...

The reason I thought of that, is that these sounds like typical symptoms of it...

it's playing audio that isn't even contained in that file! It's a cut off an album, and there's talking in it that appears to be from elsewhere in the project.

...but I haven't heard of it occurring since VP11.

Maybe try deleting temporary files?

Red Prince wrote on 1/18/2017, 8:12 AM

Anyway I compromised my own privacy to find you these 😉 ...

Thanks, Nick, you’re the best! 😌

He who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.
                    — Lao Tze in Tao Te Ching

Can you imagine the silence if everyone only said what he knows?
                    — Karel Čapek (The guy who gave us the word “robot” in R.U.R.)

MikeLV wrote on 1/18/2017, 9:58 AM

I read through some of those threads and I don't think it's the same issue. From what I gather, the problem at that time was that vegas was replacing media altogether. My issue is that the audio, and it only seems to be audio, isn't behaving correctly, even when I drag an entirely new clip into the project that wasn't there before. It gets chopped and mangled up for some reason.

dlion wrote on 1/18/2017, 11:12 AM

i get scrambled or misplaced audio sometimes on v13.

as a test, close and reopen vegas and see if it plays correctly from the tl.

seems to help in my case...

MikeLV wrote on 1/18/2017, 11:19 AM

Thanks dlion, I only wish it were that easy. I opened and closed the project several times, rebooted, cleared temp files, deleted the audio peaks file, tried a completely different wav file. The issue seems to be this:

Opening an older Vegas project with V13 causes any existing wav files on the timeline to behave erratically. Additionally, bringing in a new wav file to the project does not fix the issue. Perhaps I'll try with MP3, but I suspect the outcome will be the same.

MikeLV wrote on 6/22/2017, 11:00 AM

Frustrating! I just re-opened this file as I'm ready to work on it and it's still doing the same thing.

VolumetricMedia wrote on 10/3/2017, 10:41 PM

Has anyone ever noticed strange issues with audio when opening a .veg project with a newer version of Vegas? In my case, I am now using v13. Not sure what version I used at the time but it was in mid 2008 for this particular project. Some audio is fine, however, this one wav file is messed up. Don't know how to describe other than it's playing the file all jumbled up, like someone cut up the file and rearranged it. I tried deleting the .sfk file and it got rebuilt, but it's still not correct. What could cause this?

This is even more bizarre. I just brought in a new wav file and when I open that in the trimmer and play it, it's playing audio that isn't even contained in that file! It's a cut off an album, and there's talking in it that appears to be from elsewhere in the project. This makes no sense at all. Help!

Here's a screenshot of the peaks 😩

I had this issue years ago and it was due to the way my storage drives were formatted. Use only single NTFS where possible. I had a Storage Pool (a Microsoft RAID like software solution that has many excellent advantages over regular RAID). However it seems that Vegas (and a few other bits of software) skip accessing files through a Windows IO handler and try to stream data directly from the disk - this caused the EXACT symptoms you describe!

Before I formatted and rebuilt my setup I simply added a "working" folder on a simple NTFS drive and copied projects back and forth to my storage / Dropbox folder. You can even automate this if you like. These days I stick to simple NTFS drives and use other methods for backup, redundancy, and space expansion. Of course very fast and large HDDs are far cheaper now than when Storage Pools came out.

In summary: have a close look at your media storage for anything unusual.

Good luck!

MikeLV wrote on 10/5/2017, 5:17 PM

Thanks for the reply, but no strange storage setup here, just a regular external USB 3.0 drive, so unfortunately, this cannot be the issue :(

Former users wrote on 10/5/2017, 5:56 PM

Transfer it off the USB 3 drive and see if it behaves.

MikeLV wrote on 5/22/2018, 4:25 PM

@Former users What would be the correct way to transfer it off the drive to see if it behaves properly on another drive? It doesn't seem like this would be the cause because other vegas projects are working ok on that drive. This is rather frustrating.

MikeLV wrote on 5/22/2018, 5:01 PM

So I did a simple test to see if it had anything to do with the drive as @VolumetricMedia suggested. I started a brand new vegas project, saved it on the same drive, and copied a .wav file to the timeline. Sure enough, it played back choppy like I cited above. I did the same thing on an internal drive, and the file played fine. It doesn't make any sense because both drives are formatted as NTFS. I mentioned that other projects are working ok on the drive, but I should correct that statement. This was simply a storage drive for older projects. So apparently, any .wav file I add to any vegas project on this drive is going to have this weird playback issue. Why does it happen with these wav files, but not with audio that is part of a captured video stream?

VolumetricMedia wrote on 5/22/2018, 5:16 PM

Wav files do not need to be decoded - they are literal audio bitstreams - for efficiency I believe VEGAS streams these using a direct disk access method bypassing OS IO requests. Any media that is compressed or part of a video file needs to be processed before accessing a raw audio bitstream. So these other files don't use the 'optimization' of bypassing the OS and accessing the disk directly. They get requested to the OS and converted into bitstream them stored in RAM. That's how I explain this behaviour.

MikeLV wrote on 5/22/2018, 5:24 PM

And I suppose there's no way to tell Vegas to "process" the .wav file so this skipping behavior doesn't happen?

VolumetricMedia wrote on 5/22/2018, 5:29 PM

Not that I have been able to figure out.

MikeLV wrote on 5/22/2018, 6:08 PM

I wonder if it's only in v13 or this issue carried over to new versions? I've been hesitant to upgrade to the Magix version as I'm halfway comfortable with Sony's..

john_dennis wrote on 5/23/2018, 2:28 AM

I tried to reproduce your audio issue with Vegas 13 and 14 on an HDS Touro USB 3 1TB disk and have not had such a failure. I used projects from 2013, 2017 and 2018. All had PCM audio in the video wrappers (SD, FHD and UHD) plus I added a 45 minute, 48 kHz PCM live music track.

MikeLV wrote on 5/23/2018, 9:30 AM

Well that's rather troubling 😨