Rendering 2x faster when restricting to P-cores for Alder Lake...

bitman wrote on 9/13/2022, 2:34 PM

Still early days, but I am running a Vegas 19 and Vegas 20 (365) benchmark and my new Alder Lake Intel PC (i9-12900K with RTX 3090) is rendering slightly slower than my old i9900k with RTX2080 TI, which is weird as my new PC runs almost 50% faster in 3DMark.

So, I started investigating, and now I am able to render Vegas 20 almost 2x faster with my new PC IF the task manager is running concurrently with Vegas during the rendering (eg. showing all the cores ...)

Is this some Vegas-Windows 11 core affinity or scheduling issue P-core E-core? It can be reproduced, and it seems independent of the use of the graphics card or not (Intel rendering or NVENC).

Can someone else confirm this with an Alder Lake Intel processor and Windows 11?

Updated 15/9/2022, read further, solution is to limit Vegas to P-cores...

Last changed by bitman

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 9/13/2022, 4:17 PM

This is some sort of double-slit experiment thing... it knows you're watching! lol

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

daniel-t wrote on 9/13/2022, 6:09 PM

Are you rendering in the background, ie. not leaving Vegas as the active foreground application? And do you have one or more than one monitors?

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/13/2022, 11:08 PM

Don't have Alder Lake but definitely never experienced that myself with Win11. I don't think Win11 has any settings to adjust core affinity. But I do that myself in my Asus bios. To give higher priority to the cooler running cores which keeps the overall clock rate up. I use a utility called CoreTemp to id the hotheads.

You might want to play around a little with Win11 gpu scheduling and app-specific settings for gpu preference under System/Display/Graphics and see if they affect the situation.

bitman wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:20 AM

Are you rendering in the background, ie. not leaving Vegas as the active foreground application? And do you have one or more than one monitors?

@daniel-t

It does not matter focused foreground or minimized (I already tried it) since I was reading up on the internet on such issues regarding the windows 11 scheduler preferring the (slower) e-cores when minimizing your render app.

Anyway, according to (again the internet ...) it could be avoided by setting your power mode to "Best Performance". This did not help (perhaps because my issue is something else anyway, having a tunnel vision on an issue is often wrong).

I am also experimenting with turning the E-cores off to park (using Gigabytes tool for fixing DRM game issue)

(Some legacy games - even a few new ones- with DRM protection - have an issue with E-cores thinking your system is another PC)

I also have BIOS setting to park the e-cores on the fly called 'Legacy Game Compatibility Mode', but that is triggered by a scroll lock key on my keyboard; unfortunately, I do not have a warning led on that key, and <I do not want to park my e-cores by accidently hitting that key and not noticing it 😬

 

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

bitman wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:42 AM

@Howard-Vigorita I checked the all the core temperatures, there is no individual hot-head.

So the search goes on. I need to get to the bottom of this, I can live with the task manger running whenever I render as a workaround to render 2x faster, but this is too crazy to leave alone, it almost seems Vegas with that render benchmark project is not taxing my system enough to get fully going as if there is some threshold that needs to be crossed by some other app like the task manager.

I did notice that once Vegas and task manager are concurrently running while rendering, I am rendering fast, and afterwards you can get rid of the task manager and the rendering keeps being fast as long as you do not end Vegas. Starting up Vegas again after you killed or ended it normally will get me back in slow rendering...

Last changed by bitman on 9/14/2022, 5:23 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

bitman wrote on 9/14/2022, 5:22 AM

I am getting a clearer view of what is going on. It is definitely the E-core vs P-core usage (on alder lake processors) with windows 11 (probably worse on windows 10 - but I cannot test that) I was guessing intuitively in the first place. I got some proof now, disabling the E-cores (putting them to park via the Gigabyte DRM fix tool), will yield faster rendering (almost 2x faster on intel QSV or NVENC rendering), pure processor rendering (non QSV, non NVENC) also is faster, more like 1.5x faster. I assume the effect of having the task monitor active concurrently without disabling E-cores has pretty much the same effect as the windows task monitor will be likely be handled by the E-cores, thus effectively blocking Vegas from using them which in turn has the side effect of faster rendering since Vegas is then obviously using more often the P-cores...

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

BruceUSA wrote on 9/14/2022, 2:08 PM

I don't see this issue on my 12700K with Windows 11 Pro running 8 P cores @5.2, 6 cores @5.3, 3 cores @5.4. E cores set @4.1ghz. For my own experience and my workflow. I see that my system rendering 4K footage very fast, like I was rendering 1080P. This is with Asrock 6900XT OC Edition card.

Intel i7 12700k @5.2Ghz all P Cores, 5.3@ 6 Core, Turbo boost 3 Cores @5.4Ghz. 4.1Ghz All E Cores.                                          

MSI Z690 MPG Edge DDR5 Wifi                                                     

TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB 32GB DDR5 -6200                     

Samsung 980 Pro x4 Nvme .M2 1tb Pcie Gen 4                                     

ASRock RX 6900XT Phantom 16GB                                                        

PSU Eva Supernova G2 1300w                                                     

Black Ice GTX 480mm radiator top mount push/pull                    

MCP35X dual pump w/ dual pump housing.                                

Corsair RGB water block. RGB Fan thru out                           

Phanteks Enthoo full tower

Windows 11 Pro

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:02 PM

@bitman you might want to double check is that resizable bar is enabled in bios... probably is if you're running win11... I think both ms and nvidia recommend that.

bitman wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:08 PM

@BruceUSA My processor has 4 more E-cores, so maybe the chance Windows 11 Thread Director is picking E-cores in my system is greater and could lead to my system being less performing than yours. Do you set your cores to certain speeds in BIOS or do you let the system choose? Anyway, my issue is perfectly reproducible, and I am pretty sure I can rule out culprits such as memory, graphic card, motherboard, and SSD.

Can you do some render tests disabling E-cores vs enabling?

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

bitman wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:25 PM

@Howard-Vigorita Indeed I remember reading up on that last winter building my sons PC, I need to follow up on that and experiment with this as it is currently not enabled according the NVIDEA control panel. Good idea. I assume it will not fix P-core E-core issue of this post, but it can improve graphic speeds.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

BruceUSA wrote on 9/14/2022, 3:27 PM

@BruceUSA My processor has 4 more E-cores, so maybe the chance Windows 11 Thread Director is picking E-cores in my system is greater and could lead to my system being less performing than yours. Do you set your cores to certain speeds in BIOS or do you let the system choose? Anyway, my issue is perfectly reproducible, and I am pretty sure I can rule out culprits such as memory, graphic card, motherboard, and SSD.

Can you do some render tests disabling E-cores vs enabling?

I set set all E Cores full speed @4.1ghz in the bios. This is manual overclocked. Full specs in my sig.

Intel i7 12700k @5.2Ghz all P Cores, 5.3@ 6 Core, Turbo boost 3 Cores @5.4Ghz. 4.1Ghz All E Cores.                                          

MSI Z690 MPG Edge DDR5 Wifi                                                     

TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB 32GB DDR5 -6200                     

Samsung 980 Pro x4 Nvme .M2 1tb Pcie Gen 4                                     

ASRock RX 6900XT Phantom 16GB                                                        

PSU Eva Supernova G2 1300w                                                     

Black Ice GTX 480mm radiator top mount push/pull                    

MCP35X dual pump w/ dual pump housing.                                

Corsair RGB water block. RGB Fan thru out                           

Phanteks Enthoo full tower

Windows 11 Pro

todd-b wrote on 9/14/2022, 9:31 PM
 

I set set all E Cores full speed @4.1ghz in the bios. This is manual overclocked. Full specs in my sig.

@BruceUSA do you have the same ability as the other user to turn off your e cores with a button press?

It would be interesting to see the difference between a CPU encode with and without e cores

BruceUSA wrote on 9/14/2022, 11:40 PM

Todd-b.

I am not sure how that is done with a button press to disable e cores. I am sure it can be done in the bios. If I find the free time I will give that a try to see what is the difference between CPU encode without the e cores. They are people on this forum own 12th gen CPU as well can give that a interesting finding also.

Intel i7 12700k @5.2Ghz all P Cores, 5.3@ 6 Core, Turbo boost 3 Cores @5.4Ghz. 4.1Ghz All E Cores.                                          

MSI Z690 MPG Edge DDR5 Wifi                                                     

TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB 32GB DDR5 -6200                     

Samsung 980 Pro x4 Nvme .M2 1tb Pcie Gen 4                                     

ASRock RX 6900XT Phantom 16GB                                                        

PSU Eva Supernova G2 1300w                                                     

Black Ice GTX 480mm radiator top mount push/pull                    

MCP35X dual pump w/ dual pump housing.                                

Corsair RGB water block. RGB Fan thru out                           

Phanteks Enthoo full tower

Windows 11 Pro

bitman wrote on 9/15/2022, 7:50 AM

I found a solution that works without disabling the E-cores by enforcing Vegas to use Process threads only on the P-cores. That I consider a better solution for the Vegas slow rendering issue on Alder Lake than disabling the E-cores all together. With this solution other concurrent programs can still use threads on the E-cores.

This is how to do it:

1) Make a copy of your shortcut to Vegas.exe on your desktop (e.g., via copy paste) so you still have your original shortcut safe

2) Determine which and how many P-cores you want to allow for Vegas. For example, my alder Lake i9-12900K has 8 real cores (split into 16 virtual with hyperthreading active) which are counted from first core = 0 up to 15, (core 16-23 are the E-cores). To allow Vegas to use all my 16 virtual P cores and disallow Vegas to use E-cores, you need start Vegas with an affinity option bitmap, this bitmap holds which cores Vegas can use. It is expressed in HEX number rather than decimal:

The affinity must be set to HEX "FFFF" for the first 16 cores (cores 0 to 15)

for example, setting cores 0, 1, 2, 3 you set decimal "1+2+4+8" = decimal "15" = HEX "F"

3) open the properties tab of the copied shortcut and change the contends of the target field to

%ComSpec% /C Start /Normal /Affinity 0xFFFF vegas200.exe

4) That is all, just start Vegas from your new shortcut and enjoy faster rendering and edit.

5) You can check your Vegas core affinity in the task manager

Last changed by bitman on 9/15/2022, 7:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

john_dennis wrote on 9/15/2022, 10:21 AM

@bitman

In ancient times, when my i7-6850K was fresh and new, there was an app from intel to set processor affinity to the core(s) with the best performance. I tinkered with it then, but I abandoned the effort because the difference in cores was not worth all the effort. Now, with more profound differences in core performance, it appears that setting affinity to cores has real possibility for performance optimization.

Thank you for visiting this phenomenon.

Core affinity can be set in real time from the Task Manager, but it doesn't survive a reboot. It can be handy for carving out a place for a screen recorder to run.

My main system:
Motherboard: Asus X99-AII
CPU: Intel i7-6850K
GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX480-8GB
RAM: Corsair Dominator (4 x 4 GB) DDR4 2400
Disk O/S & Programs: Intel SSD 750 (400 GB)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: Corsair Hydro series H115i
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Crystal Sound 3 on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: Asus ProArt PA248q (24" 1920 x 1200)
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 22H2, Build 19045.2130

Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/15/2022, 12:12 PM

Been trying to get away from running stuff under command shells with win11 so I adapted the @bitman shortcut approach to a PowerShell script and figured I'd bump the the priority up to high while I was at it... caution not to go above high else you'll have to reboot if Vegas hangs because I don't think TaskManager can stop a Realtime priority process. The affinity below is for my 6-core laptop to exclude inner cores #2 and #4 which really cook when I do benchmark renders. The Dell laptop doesn't have affinity/priority settings in bios so this may be one of the few ways to do it for me:

Start-Process -FilePath "C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 20.0\vegas200.exe"
Get-WmiObject Win32_process -filter 'name = "vegas200.exe"' | foreach-object { $_.SetPriority(128)}
ForEach($PROCESS in GET-PROCESS vegas200) { $PROCESS.ProcessorAffinity=0xCCF}

There was also a free utility around called Prio that allowed you to set Process Priority in Task Manager and save it across restarts and reboots. I used to use in back with vp16 on Win10 but don't know if it saves affinity settings and/or runs with win11.

edit: changed the hex affinity because Get-Process apparently takes the bits in backwards. Also named that script "startvp20.ps1" so it could be started by a direct shortcut to powershell which allows the VP20 icon to be applied to it rather than right-clicking on the ps1 to Run With Powershell. Here's the shortcut def I tried 1st:

target: C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\powershell.exe -File .\startvp20.ps1

start in: %~dp0

run: minimized

That funky "start in" tells the shortcut to switch to the folder where it finds the ps1 script which I threw on desktop next to the target shortcut. Then I moved it to my c:\util folder where I throw stuff like ffmpeg which I include my search path. Since it's on the search path, "-File startvp20.ps1" is the only change I had to make in the target. Run minimized hides the PowerShell screen while it flashes by briefly.

bitman wrote on 9/16/2022, 12:08 PM

@Howard-Vigorita Thanks for the alternative way via PowerShell, you can add priority to the shortcut method as well, I did not want to up the priority together with the affinity as not to complicate and confuse my testing with too many changed variables at the same time.

Unfortunately, although setting Vegas to a certain core affinity via PowerShell method or directly via shortcut startup seems to be set correctly (as you can check in via the task manager), it does not give me (anymore) the desired result of 2x faster render, was it a fluke yesterday when it worked?

Wat does still work (to have the rendering 2x as fast) is turning the E-cores off to park completely (using Gigabytes tool for fixing DRM game issue) or quite often by running the task manager concurrently as in the original post...

Is windows 11 sometimes overruling the affinity set? Or is something else going on. Setting Vegas to use only the P-cores (aka affinity setting) should more or less have the same effect on rendering as turning off the E-cores for everyone, but it is not...

Investigation still ongoing...

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (20), VP 19 post (latest build -643), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 15 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2022.5, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Audio Clean Lab 3, Sound Forge Audio Studio 16, Sound Forge Pro 14, Spectral Layers Pro 8, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 22H2
  • CPU: i9-12900K with Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

pierre-k wrote on 9/16/2022, 1:45 PM

I was seriously considering buying a 12900k processor. However, I did not like the division into P and E cores, I guessed that this would be a problem. Do I understand correctly that you turned the 16-core processor into an eight-core one with these experiments? Isn't older 10-core intel or 16-core Amd with P cores better for Vegas?

What is the difference when playing the benchmark project with E cores on and off?

todd-b wrote on 9/16/2022, 4:24 PM

 

What is the difference when playing the benchmark project with E cores on and off?

It's the obvious question, so far, nobody wants to test that. I would do a AVC transcode to MagixAVC (mainconcept) . A CPU render is where there should be some advantage to having the e cores even if they';re not very useful otherwise (for a desktop computer)

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/16/2022, 10:26 PM

I just did a fresh Vegas install to a new Zenbook laptop: 12900h / 3060 gpu / IrisXe igpu. The bios has no core settings so I couldn't test that. Render times of Sample Project to 1080p were a big improvement over my old Dell xps15 but were relatively unchanged by anything I did raising priority or manipulating core-affinity via Task Manager. Except the MainConcept render time increased by 10 seconds if I messed with core-affinity for Vegas.

xps15: Nvenc: 1:41; Qsv: 1:40; MC: 2:21

Zenbook: Nvenc: 0:52; Qsv: 0:52; MC: 0:57

If I limited Vegas to p-cores on the Zenbook, MC render time was 1:07. Note that the 12900h mobile cpu is a little different from the 12900k desktop... only 6 p-cores, 2-treads each + 8 e-cores, 1 thread each. Total 20 threads: 12 p-core + 8 e-core. p-cores can boost to 5ghz but e-cores only boost to 3.8 ghz.

todd-b wrote on 9/16/2022, 11:25 PM

@Howard-Vigorita When you do a transcode from AVC 420 to AVC 420 mainconcept do you get 100% CPU including 100% load of E cores?

The following is 1080P AVC to 1080P Mainconcept AVC and it's what you expect to see with conventional CPU's

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/17/2022, 12:06 AM

Looks similar for the p-cores but the e-cores are the bottom 8 logical processors, and they look a little lower than the p-cores... I think the p-cores are on the perimeter of the cpu and can run at a higher clock because they have a better ability to dissipate heat than the inner cores. If the inner cores overheated, they would heat up all the cores and lead to a general slowdown.

todd-b wrote on 9/17/2022, 12:30 AM

@Howard-Vigorita That looks good, E cores not creating latency for P cores reducing effective power, instead 100% P cores +additional E core processing power. I wondered how that would work in a multithreaded workload like a CPU encode.

bitman wrote on 9/17/2022, 4:49 AM

@pierre-k @todd-b @Howard-Vigorita

I redid my tests extensively, experimented a bit with BIOS settings (but reverted pretty much everything to defaults except XMP profile and resizable bar), and came with following conclusions and results:

test set: "classic" 4K Sample Project to 1080p (25P) - Note: (dynamic RAM preview max =0)

  • 62s NVENC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads)
  • 63s NVENC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads) Vegas Affinity set to P cores
  • 41s NVENC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores parked by Gigabyte DRM fix tool
  •  
  • 61s QSV: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads)
  • 63s QSV: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads) Vegas Affinity set to P cores
  • 40s QSV: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores parked by Gigabyte DRM fix tool
  •  
  • 64s MC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads)
  • 65s MC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores (8 Threads) Vegas Affinity set to P cores
  • 45s MC: 8 P cores (16 Threads) + 8 E-cores parked by Gigabyte DRM fix tool

Conclusion: the affinity setting seems to be ignored by Windows 11 scheduler; the way I understand it, the Intel HW Thread director implemented in HW gives advice to Windows 11 scheduler, but windows is ultimately master and decides, this thread assigning in this hybrid processor does not look optimal for Vegas...

As a side note, I really do not understand why running the windows task manager concurrently with Vegas rendering with all cores active has pretty much the same positive effect on render time (=faster), than parking the E-cores. Using an extra application would normally affect speed negatively, but it does the opposite...

@fr0sty Can you ask the Vegas developers if they have any insights on Vegas performance issue with Alder Lake processors? I preferably do not want to park my E-cores!

Last changed by bitman on 9/17/2022, 1:02 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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