Small Project Failing To Render Past 26% Bug Report/Project Included

Comments

RogerS wrote on 11/14/2021, 6:31 AM

Thanks Todd! I wasn't saying the media was at fault, rather there is an issue with the decoding of this file. Nice detective work on when it does and doesn't fail.

@VEGASHeman Example here of HEVC hardware decoding causing render fail on a rotated file (media available for download in first post)

Former user wrote on 11/14/2021, 11:42 AM

Couldn't sleep, don't have a life, needed a full render for closure? take your pic ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ˜‚,

either way it was just something i had to do, my Sat nights aren't what they used to be ๐Ÿ‘ด๐Ÿ˜‚

I rendered each clip individually @ Apple ProRes 3840x2160 59.94 FPS (best), then rebuilt the whole project & exported it with no prob in 12.23mins, I did notice the rendered files were a bit darker ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ & the final 5k video i can't play because none of my media players want to do 5k, so i rendered a 4k MAGIX AVC/AAC version also, that took about 10mins i think,

I doubt you'll learn anything from this but here's my Sat night if anyone's got 20mins to spare, i've speeded up bits because Vegas was very unresponsive at times, prob because of the orig footage still being on the timeline during the rebuild, & watching rendering is boring.

Youtube video

I haven't made this Public, only those with this link ca see it (so everyone on this forum ๐Ÿ˜‚)

I could share the project/files but i'd need to learn how to use that Dropbox thing.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 2:13 AM

I did a comparison between Vegas and Premiere. I was interested to see if they both get the dramatic slow down towards the end, after the people leave the church, this happens at about 45s for Premiere, and 55s for Vegas I don't really see the same slow down with Premiere, maybe that is a bug?

Playback is at 4x real speed

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 4:14 AM
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I rendered each clip individually @ Apple ProRes 3840x2160 59.94 FPS (best), then rebuilt the whole project & exported it with no prob in 12.23mins, I did notice the rendered files were a bit darker ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ & the final 5k video i can't play because none of my media players want to do 5k, so i rendered a 4k MAGIX AVC/AAC version also, that took about 10mins i think,

Do you have minimum install of apple quicktime player installed?

I doubt you'll learn anything from this but here's my Sat night if anyone's got 20mins to spare, i've speeded up bits because Vegas was very unresponsive at times, prob because of the orig footage still being on the timeline during the rebuild, & watching rendering is boring.

Youtube video

Scrubbing the timeline and general playback with Prores source files is how I dream H.264/h.265 with GPU decode would work on Vegas
I had to replace 2 HEVC files with x264 versions. At first I thought it was a GPU decoder problem with HEVC and GPU decoder worked fine with x264 replacements, but later I noticed Vegas doesn't use GPU decoder for x264 5K files, not sure if limitation of vegas or GPU, but 5K X.264 without GPU decode is a poor choice, prores or H.264 intra more suitable.

Problem files are
GX010086.MP4
GX010087.MP4

GX010100.MP4 the final clip is also problem file for me, Vegas hung at 99.9% so that was good enough for my benchmark but not good enough if I wanted an apple prores422 encode (with gpu decoder on)

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 3:03 PM

I have a free QuickTime player installed ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ‘ but just gives me a still image, doesn't play the orig katie clips or a short 26secs selection i rendered with MagicYUV

That 26secs clip is 15GB!! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ๐Ÿ˜ฎ๐Ÿ˜‚

When i converted all clips in that video above, rebuilt the project & got a full render it did hang for quite a while at the end, "come on, you've done it, now finish!" ๐Ÿคฃ

I just installed MagicYUV, i had it a while ago but never used it so when i rebooted Windows because of search issues i never re-installed it, it renders it at the same frame size, don't know much about it apart from i like it renders with an alpha channel ๐Ÿ˜

so i reloaded the orig unedited Katie, i tried MagicYUV 8-bit RGB, that slowed just a fraction going through transitions but had no prob with 26%-28% mark but stuck at 65%,

I tried the one below MagicYUV 8-bit RGBA to see if the A for Alpha bit might help, same again no prob for most of it but got stuck at 65%,

The other portrait clips are rotated 90ยบ & playback rate 0.500, GX010097 is rotated also but up at 1.663 for playback rate,

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 6:20 PM

@Former user It's a really interesting project this one. It's so simple, yet causes so many problems as far as crashes and slow downs. I think that 68% may also be the area you see in my video where Premiere almost has a stroke and goes into extreme slow encoding. The main differences I see between Vegas and Premiere is the first and most obvious, Premiere refuses to even use GPU decode, even though it does on timeline, which hands editors like Vegas and Resolve an efficiency advantage in encoding, but also seemingly in the case of Vegas many problems that go away when you turn the GPU decoder off.

The other difference I see is in the slow downs, Premiere is like ALL HANDS ABOARD, WE NEED MORE POWER, and CPU is at near or at 100%, but in the Vegas slow down, GPU decode is very high meaning it's reading the multiple 5K tracks, but then it must go into some odd inefficient queue'ing because instead of CPU remaining the same or going 100% it goes very low, and we both saw encoding going down to 2fps. Lossless codecs like MagicYUV create massive files which make me feel bad for the longevity of my SSD's

I have a windows Apple Prores Raw codec installed but I can't see how that would aid in playback of these files

@LongIslander Thanks again for this project it is really amazing at showing the weakness's in Vegas in such a simple way, Hopefully this helps in building a better product. 5K source, 4K encode is getting very common these days

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LongIslander wrote on 11/15/2021, 6:45 PM

Just trying to make things better for all. Thank You ๐Ÿ‘

I was also the main driving force back when "vegas levels" 0-255 etc was a thing. Now its all automatic and the (why dont my colors look the same when rendered threads have ended)

Cant wait to see the Vegas team comment on this thread to find out what the bug is.

michael-harrison wrote on 11/15/2021, 7:10 PM

I'm coming to the party late but using the base project and the settings given in the OP, I was able to render at a decent speed up until it got to 83% then performance went right into the toilet.

Vegas Pro 19-424
Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 cores
128.0G RAM
Nvidia GTX 1660 Studio 472.39
Video Memory 6G GDDR5

It was maxxing out all 20 threads up to 83% and then only 4 were fully loaded and the rest idling at about 5% usage. GPU decode time spiked at about that time too.

At 93% gpu decode time went back down and CPU went right back up to 100% on all cores.

Took about 7min to render the whole thing.

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolutionย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

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System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

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Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 7:35 PM

@michael-harrisonย Hi, 'settings given in the OP'? were you rendering at Apple ProRes 3840x2160 59.94 FPS (best),?

karma17 wrote on 11/15/2021, 7:39 PM

My fail safe solution to this, esp if you find yourself using cursing and slamming doors.

Split the video down into smaller, renderable sections, then once those are rendered, bring them back into Vegas and reassemble the clips in a new session. When you render out the smaller clips, render as Sony AVC ,mxf files. You should see no appreciable loss in quality when re-assembled.

This is not a long term solution, just a get-it-done approach.

Hope that helps.

Explained more here.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 7:54 PM

@karma17ย Hi n thanks, ๐Ÿ‘

Yeah that's what Todd & I have been doing just to get a render, breaking the project down & rendering the parts but that's just skirting the issue, I think the exercise here is trying to work out why it's not rendering & i think LongIslander wanted to determine 'this is not a hardware issue' with his system, he posted to see if we had the same issue, which we do.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 8:48 PM

@Former user if @michael-harrison confirms he was encoding to Prores422, and he was using Intel IGPU decoder, then it's looking like another decoder bug that affects any GPU decoder that is not intel, so we see it with Nvidia GPU's and I suspect AMD decoders will have same problem. Slow down problem experienced at 83% is affecting us all

michael-harrison wrote on 11/15/2021, 9:12 PM

@michael-harrisonย Hi, 'settings given in the OP'? were you rendering at Apple ProRes 3840x2160 59.94 FPS (best),?


@Former user yes. prores proxy added to that list

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolutionย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

ย 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

ย 

michael-harrison wrote on 11/15/2021, 9:14 PM

@Former user I'm using the nvidia decoder

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolutionย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

ย 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

ย 

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 9:36 PM

@michael-harrisonย Apologies but need to confirm, at this ? '7min to render the whole thing' , that's fast, even after i rendered each individual clip then rebuilt the project it rendered at 12.23mins.

john_dennis wrote on 11/15/2021, 9:58 PM

@Former user

I rendered the .m4a audio file to 48kHz .WAV and converted all the video files to MagicYUV RGBA, replaced the media in the original project and it rendered to ProRes Proxy 3840x2160 in 07:33. I never got full 59.94 fps preview.

I don't acquire any HEVC source and don't normally have to work with it.

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Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 10:12 PM

I did a comparison between Vegas and Premiere. I was interested to see if they both get the dramatic slow down towards the end, after the people leave the church, this happens at about 45s for Premiere, and 55s for Vegas I don't really see the same slow down with Premiere, maybe that is a bug?

Playback is at 4x real speed

@Former user 4x real speed but it was rendering up to that point in 4mins๐Ÿ˜ฎ that's in Vegas 19? I don't understand, am i doing something wrong? why's my pc so slow,๐Ÿ˜•๐Ÿ˜ข

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 10:15 PM

@john_dennisย you cheated ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ‘ no i don't work with HEVC either,

LongIslander wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:13 PM

@john_dennisย Yes the whole point of this thread is to see if your PC can render the project without any modifications. ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ
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i'm not looking for a workaround I know how to do that I'm looking for a fix so I don't need to do a work around.

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:33 PM

@LongIslanderย ๐Ÿ‘ Yep that would be avoiding the problem,

I think i got the render settings wrong, so i've just had another go with the unedited orig project, ProRes 422 3840x2160 -59.94, no luck

it didn't crash but it stalled at 65%

I had a go with MagicYUV 4.2.2 & RGB

They both stalled at 65% also

Sorry.

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john_dennis wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:42 PM

@LongIslander

Noted

Former user wrote on 11/15/2021, 11:43 PM

I did a comparison between Vegas and Premiere. I was interested to see if they both get the dramatic slow down towards the end, after the people leave the church, this happens at about 45s for Premiere, and 55s for Vegas I don't really see the same slow down with Premiere, maybe that is a bug?

Playback is at 4x real speed

@Former user 4x real speed but it was rendering up to that point in 4mins๐Ÿ˜ฎ that's in Vegas 19? I don't understand, am i doing something wrong? why's my pc so slow,๐Ÿ˜•๐Ÿ˜ข

Have you benchmarked your system against other Threadripper PRO 3975WX, that could tell you if it's a problem with Vegas or in general?

It seems like a lot of people are rendering in around 7minutes. I know people say Vegas responds well to high cpu frequency, when rendering this project my CPU was around 4.4ghz all core, Intel's can get up to 5ghz. Your ram is a little slow for Ryzens that like fast ram, Mine is only 3200mhz (xmp), but a sweet spot is 3600mhz, You obviously do have hardware decoder turned on otherwise you would not have had the render freeze at 26%

I don't think a 3.7ghz? all core and 2666MHz RAM should create this slowness. I know people say this all the time, but have you tried resetting Vegas?
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Former user wrote on 11/16/2021, 12:38 AM

@Former userย hmm I had the ram size conversation with the people who built my PC, i took their advise, but on 2 other occasions people have stated my ram was slow & compared to the ram in my old PC i'd agree, might be shopping today, i've been up all night & it's 6.30am so i've a few hrs to wait till they're open

best i could find without going down to 16GB & the only one available at 16GB is 3733mhz

Yep did the benchmark test, 43secs for the HD & 107 for the UHD, up near the top of the list but want better ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

Former user wrote on 11/16/2021, 3:42 AM

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best i could find without going down to 16GB & the only one available at 16GB is 3733mhz

Yep did the benchmark test, 43secs for the HD & 107 for the UHD, up near the top of the list but want better ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

3733mhz is as fast as people normally go who want to be cautious due to the need to keep synchronization with Ryzen's infinity fabric's top speed of 1866mhz(non overclocked). Your NVENC benchmark figures show how fast your CPU is capable of rendering the frames to the encoder, the discrepancy seen here doesn't seem to make sense. Consider though if you compare speeds with me for this project, I kept all the original HEVC source files except GX010086.MP4 and GX010087.MP4 which I converted to x264, so I had the advantage of GPU decoding for the HEVC source files. I never tried with all source files replaced with Prores422 conversions