Dude, read the manual and learn how to use the software properly.

Another one of those. "I had to climb over barbed wire to get to school; why should the youth from today climb over anything else?"

No amount of manual reading will make any of my points invalid. Here, in case you never experienced a program with a good UI (since they are quite rare these days). Notice how in Topaz Gigapixel, it didn't take me a million clicks to choose the image dimensions.

Not that far off at all, kudos! This is where I grew up:

I've been using Vegas since version 9, I always read the manual. Before I press any button I know what to expect. You know, you should also read the minefield map because one wrong step can cost you your life. Trust me, I know - the fact that I'm still alive is the best proof.
And don't tell me you're incapable of reading, understanding, learning, adapting and evolving.

Barbed wire? Phew, I eat barbed wire for breakfast...

 

Dude, read the manual and learn how to use the software properly.

Another one of those. "I had to climb over barbed wire to get to school; why should the youth from today climb over anything else?"

No amount of manual reading will make any of my points invalid. Here, in case you never experienced a program with a good UI (since they are quite rare these days). Notice how in Topaz Gigapixel, it didn't take me a million clicks to choose the image dimensions.

Not that far off at all, kudos! This is where I grew up:

 

I've been using Vegas since version 9, I always read the manual. Before I press any button I know what to expect. You know, you should also read the minefield map because one wrong step can cost you your life. Trust me, I know - the fact that I'm still alive is the best proof.
And don't tell me you're incapable of reading, understanding, learning, adapting and evolving.

Barbed wire? Phew, I eat barbed wire for breakfast...

Welcome to the Salty Spittoon...

But you can maybe see the problem. Everyone here who is defending Vegas' UI has been using this software for 20-30 years. You don't see anyone who is a new user defending it and that is because many of the design choices of Vegas Pro are objectively terrible and turn a lot of potential new users away.

I bought Vegas Pro because Camtasia switched to the "You own nothing and you'll be happy" business model, so they can go die in a fire in my book, and I needed to decide on a new program to learn. Someone said they're using Vegas Pro, so I tried it out. The many shortcomings were not immediately apparent to me, so I didn't think too much about it and bought it so that I can start video editing. Only after I bought it, I heard from several people "Yea, why did you buy that program? It's terrible. Just get DaVinci Resolve."

If you've used this program for 20-30 years, yes, you might prefer the way things are, even if they're clunky and ineffective.

Imagine someone who has been using a smart phone their whole life and has never used a computer. They will be able to type on a phone much faster than on a keyboard. However, someone who has used a computer their whole life will still be able to type a lot faster than someone on their phone. Because keyboards are objectively better for typing than phone screens.

Zooming in on the mouse-cursor instead of the playback position is similar. If you're used to the latter, you might not like adapting to mouse-cursor zoom. But in a vacuum it is just plain better. You're able to navigate faster and with far fewer misclicks.

And on top of that, there seems to be this weird sentiment that "No, things shouldn't be easy!" The bad UI is a feature, not a bug. "I had to learn this program the hard way, so you'll have to do that, too. How dare you suggest changes that would make everyone's life easier!"

 

Welcome to the Salty Spittoon...

But you can maybe see the problem. Everyone here who is defending Vegas' UI has been using this software for 20-30 years. You don't see anyone who is a new user defending it and that is because many of the design choices of Vegas Pro are objectively terrible and turn a lot of potential new users away.

I bought Vegas Pro because Camtasia switched to the "You own nothing and you'll be happy" business model, so they can go die in a fire in my book, and I needed to decide on a new program to learn. Someone said they're using Vegas Pro, so I tried it out. The many shortcomings were not immediately apparent to me, so I didn't think too much about it and bought it so that I can start video editing. Only after I bought it, I heard from several people "Yea, why did you buy that program? It's terrible. Just get DaVinci Resolve."

If you've used this program for 20-30 years, yes, you might prefer the way things are, even if they're clunky and ineffective.

Imagine someone who has been using a smart phone their whole life and has never used a computer. They will be able to type on a phone much faster than on a keyboard. However, someone who has used a computer their whole life will still be able to type a lot faster than someone on their phone. Because keyboards are objectively better for typing than phone screens.

Zooming in on the mouse-cursor instead of the playback position is similar. If you're used to the latter, you might not like adapting to mouse-cursor zoom. But in a vacuum it is just plain better. You're able to navigate faster and with far fewer misclicks.

And on top of that, there seems to be this weird sentiment that "No, things shouldn't be easy!" The bad UI is a feature, not a bug. "I had to learn this program the hard way, so you'll have to do that, too. How dare you suggest changes that would make everyone's life easier!"

As someone who came to Vegas Pro around v19, I was a Adobe Premiere editor and decided that I had enough of never owning the software I was using, spending hundreds of dollars a year for the "privilege" of using a program that would crash upon loading a project I was working on, or that my projects would be used for AI training without a way to opt out. There was a LOT of friction when it came to learning how to use Vegas. I've had a few misgivings with the NLE like you, having to re-learn how to zoom in on the timeline by where the playback header is and not your cursor was nightmarish at times. And I will honestly say that there are still a few things that I am not happy with how Vegas does things.

However, now that I've been using it as my primary editing software for the past 4 years, there are actually a few things that I prefer how Vegas handles them over other editing software. As someone who primarily edits weekly and daily shows, the workflow I've found for myself in Vegas is so much more pleasing and fairly intuitive over what I was able to do in Premiere or Resolve.

Now, I will say that it took me a decent 2 years to get into that groove with Vegas. But once I got the "muscle memory" down, what I found as friction when I first started no longer feels like friction, it just feels normal.

Does Vegas need to be easier for new comers? Sure, I doubt anyone would actually stand behind a program being difficult to learn just because "well that's the way I had to do it".

Does Vegas need to conform to how other NLE's handle their UI just because those other programs might be more popular? Not really.

Learning a UI is difficult, and it can definitely feel more difficult than it should when you are coming from a different piece of software that did it differently. Relearning how to maneuver around in a new software takes time, but just because Vegas does things different to how Camtasia, Cap-Cut, Premiere, Final Cut, Resolve, or even Hitfilm do those same things does not mean that it is bad. It's different.

Once you learn it and do it a few hundred times, it's not bad anymore, its just different. If I went back to Premiere, or went over to any of the other NLE's on the market I am sure that I would run into a lot of friction doing what I know are "simple tasks" in Vegas. But I wouldn't start calling those other programs bad because they do things differently.

I personally really hate the way that you have to cut footage in Resolve, and using a node system for effects even as simple as multiband audio compression, it's downright alien to me. But I haven't spent the time to learn it like I did with Vegas and Premiere before. A year or two with Resolve, I am sure that what I find now as the most abrasive user interface to get a "simple" chroma key working, would be near second nature after putting in the time and developing the muscle memory required for that program.

Now, there are feature requests that I've asked for, that to me, would enhance my editing experience, and they would be UI related. Example, a green dot on any asset used in the timeline when looking at the Project Media.

Well, I have noticed a red dot on audio I have added to the timeline. This is new in V23.

Now, there are feature requests that I've asked for, that to me, would enhance my editing experience, and they would be UI related. Example, a green dot on any asset used in the timeline when looking at the Project Media.

Well, I have noticed a red dot on audio I have added to the timeline. This is new in V23.

The red dot appears in the Explorer Window but I don't see it in the Project Media Window but I could be wrong as I only have a trial version at present.

Having it appear in the Project Media has been asked a few times. The situation as I understand it is that whilst it would appear easy to do it isn't. The area of VP's several millions of lines of code involved is very old and fiddling with it could have unintended consequences. So we will have to wait until there's a rewrite of the code area.

Now, there are feature requests that I've asked for, that to me, would enhance my editing experience, and they would be UI related. Example, a green dot on any asset used in the timeline when looking at the Project Media.

Well, I have noticed a red dot on audio I have added to the timeline. This is new in V23.

The red dot appears in the Explorer Window but I don't see it in the Project Media Window but I could be wrong as I only have a trial version at present.

Having it appear in the Project Media has been asked a few times. The situation as I understand it is that whilst it would appear easy to do it isn't. The area of VP's several millions of lines of code involved is very old and fiddling with it could have unintended consequences. So we will have to wait until there's a rewrite of the code area.

I do not believe that this would be all that helpful in the Project Media window as it is in the Explorer window. Typically, I just look at the "Use Count" in the project media window to see which assets I have active in my timelines. The addition of having a red dot appear on assets that are in use in the Explorer window has been very helpful, but I do not see the same utility when we already have the Use Count column doing the same function in Project Media.

I think the old project media window is headed towards obsolescence at some point so not surprised Explorer is getting the new features. I think the dot is helpful, too.

What do you think will replace it? I certainly hope not the Explorer. To have all the assets used in one location, adding, subtracting as needed, I think is beneficial.

My guess is a filter mode in Explorer- filter to show media in use. But just a guess.
I agree project media has its uses though I don't like how it ignores the folder system I already have in Windows Explorer.

I've found it a little confusing how in Project Media, when you go down to say in the Media by Type, Audio, that you can not drop any files into it. It is an inconvenience (extra couple of clicks), but I do like how things are separated from the main Project Media to subfolders by types.

@Reyfox I find Project Media's Custom Bins one of VP's great features. They are my control centre for organising my projects.

I agree project media has its uses though I don't like how it ignores the folder system I already have in Windows Explorer.

@RogerS I'm puzzled. I wouldn't expect my Windows Explorer folder system to appear in Project Media. It appears in the Explorer window. Maybe I'm missing something but for me Project Media and Explorer serve different purposes.

I don't believe there was an Explorer feature in VEGAS a few years back, when I last edited complex projects (or maybe I didn't find it). What I wanted to do was go to import media and select multiple folders, for example sorted by days.

For me having things unstructured in a media pool isn't helpful. I need to know what day it was taken and want that day's auto to go with that day's video. So then I had to recreate bins that just replicate the organization I already had in folders.

The tagging feature of VEGAS was also useless as the last time I checked tags didn't persist between sessions for some reason. (so save your project, close VEGAS and they all disappear). Retesting this today they seem to persist, which is great!

@RogerS said: "I don't believe there was an Explorer feature in VEGAS a few years back..."

The Shade-Tree Vegas Pro Archivist responds:

I found an Explorer feature in Vegas Pro 4.0 copyright 2003.

@john_dennis OMG - you have a time machine. I note Project Media was called Media Pool back then.

@RogerS Thanks for your explanation. Your projects and way of working are probably very different to mine. The date of taking is usually of no interest to me. It shows the versatility of VP in that different users with different requirements can use it in a manner to suit themselves.

I'd be lost without the Project Media and the ability to create Custom Bins which I use to structure my project. I also like that the Project Media includes Generated Media, other than Empty Events.

What I particularly like about the Project Media window is the ability to R click on an event and from the context menu that opens click on 'Select Timeline Events' which causes any instance of that event on the timeline to be bordered with a yellow frame as well as the cursor moving to the first frame of the first instance of that event on the timeline. Also from the context menu, the 'Replace' option has proven very useful.

And to keep the Project Media lists up-to-date, hitting the 'Remove All Unused Media From Project' button (top LH corner of the window - or 'Clean Project Media' from the Tools menu) clears from the list any reference to events that are no longer on the project's timeline.

Thanks John, I stand corrected. I never used that version of Explorer and my workflow started with the import media box.

Yes, I'm doing narrative documentary projects so the chronological aspect is important as are keeping multiple cameras and mic audio files for a given day and scene together. Custom bins and tags are helpful to that end. I also like that you can create proxy files from project media.

As someone who came to Vegas Pro around v19, I was a Adobe Premiere editor and decided that I had enough of never owning the software I was using, spending hundreds of dollars a year for the "privilege" of using a program that would crash upon loading a project I was working on, or that my projects would be used for AI training without a way to opt out. There was a LOT of friction when it came to learning how to use Vegas. I've had a few misgivings with the NLE like you, having to re-learn how to zoom in on the timeline by where the playback header is and not your cursor was nightmarish at times. And I will honestly say that there are still a few things that I am not happy with how Vegas does things.

However, now that I've been using it as my primary editing software for the past 4 years, there are actually a few things that I prefer how Vegas handles them over other editing software. As someone who primarily edits weekly and daily shows, the workflow I've found for myself in Vegas is so much more pleasing and fairly intuitive over what I was able to do in Premiere or Resolve.

Now, I will say that it took me a decent 2 years to get into that groove with Vegas. But once I got the "muscle memory" down, what I found as friction when I first started no longer feels like friction, it just feels normal.

Does Vegas need to be easier for new comers? Sure, I doubt anyone would actually stand behind a program being difficult to learn just because "well that's the way I had to do it".

Does Vegas need to conform to how other NLE's handle their UI just because those other programs might be more popular? Not really.

Learning a UI is difficult, and it can definitely feel more difficult than it should when you are coming from a different piece of software that did it differently. Relearning how to maneuver around in a new software takes time, but just because Vegas does things different to how Camtasia, Cap-Cut, Premiere, Final Cut, Resolve, or even Hitfilm do those same things does not mean that it is bad. It's different.

Once you learn it and do it a few hundred times, it's not bad anymore, its just different. If I went back to Premiere, or went over to any of the other NLE's on the market I am sure that I would run into a lot of friction doing what I know are "simple tasks" in Vegas. But I wouldn't start calling those other programs bad because they do things differently.

I personally really hate the way that you have to cut footage in Resolve, and using a node system for effects even as simple as multiband audio compression, it's downright alien to me. But I haven't spent the time to learn it like I did with Vegas and Premiere before. A year or two with Resolve, I am sure that what I find now as the most abrasive user interface to get a "simple" chroma key working, would be near second nature after putting in the time and developing the muscle memory required for that program.

Does Vegas Pro need to do everything the same way other programs do? No.

Does that mean it can just map the X in the "Save Changes?" dialog to "Close without Saving", contrary to every other program ever created? No, that's not acceptable.

Is the fact that in Vegas Pro you need to do multiple additional mouse-clicks to enter custom video dimensions or that the entered file name is not saved when you go to "Render As" a second time just "Vegas doing things differently" or is it just sloppy, lazy engineering? Most definitely the latter.

You're arguing points that no one, including me, disagrees with, but which have little to do with the topic at hand.

Just proves the old adage, "You can please some of the people all of the time. You can please all of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time".

I was here way before Magix decided to take over the program, I just didn't like the UI design before Magix took over so I didn't purchase the software, however, the current UI changes are far better than most video editing software.

@EricLNZ said: "OMG - you have a time machine. I note Project Media was called Media Pool back then."

Yes, I do have a time machine. I recently created a Windows 11 Professional image that includes copies of most of the software for which I have a license.

I used the term "Media Pool" when I first came to this forum, much to the dismay of folks who never used CD Architect.

Does Vegas Pro need to do everything the same way other programs do? No.

Does that mean it can just map the X in the "Save Changes?" dialog to "Close without Saving", contrary to every other program ever created? No, that's not acceptable.

Not acceptable by whom? Did anyone ask you to accept it? For your approval?

Is it mandatory? No?

It's different then and not wrong. BTW, wonder what that cancel button is for...

Is the fact that in Vegas Pro you need to do multiple additional mouse-clicks to enter custom video dimensions

How many clicks is this?

What, you didn't enter the video dimensions in Project Video Properties?
Well, you will have to, either in Project Video Properties or in Custom Settings during export. If you knew that, you wouldn't be wasting mouse clicks here on the forum for nothing.

or that the entered file name is not saved when you go to "Render As" a second time

What's the Project name?

 

just "Vegas doing things differently" or is it just sloppy, lazy engineering? Most definitely the latter.

Says who, Gary Rebholz?

You're arguing points that no one, including me, disagrees with, but which have little to do with the topic at hand.

Read the manual.