VEGAS Pro 20: Next update PREVIEW

Comments

Reyfox wrote on 1/20/2023, 12:33 PM

@Pete sorry, not seeing that with either VP18, 19, or 20.

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 1/20/2023, 2:01 PM

@Pete I dont know of any such UI bug currently bothering Vegas Pro.

VEGASDerek wrote on 1/20/2023, 2:48 PM

Curious to see if the UI bugs, like the 'giant eye' and 'disappearing text' that have plagued Vegas for two generations have been fixed. Far to many times do I need to shut down the application and reopen causing longer workflow time. Also, thank you development team for new features and other QOL improvements. We appreciate your support.

@Pete: If the UI bug you are referring to is what I think it is, we have had a preference setting to fix that for quite a while now and it has been documented several times here on the forum. However, in this latest update, we have automatically detected the problem and set this preference appropriately on startup.

fr0sty wrote on 1/20/2023, 9:31 PM

 

If you only had a clue...

 

And yet the bugs remain. I'm not the only one trying to send you this message. I don't know why you (and those like you) are so totally deaf to this. Assuming the Magix team is making a good-faith effort to resolve these stability issues, I am suggesting your current testing system could use some improvement. That's all.

If indeed Vegas has a long and profitable future, no one will be happier than me.

No software is without its bugs... and more and more bugs in VEGAS keep getting squashed with each update.

Sometimes making changes, such as to the delivery model, beta team, dev team, etc. take time to manifest into usable code that is installed on the end user's system. Just because you don't see it right now doesn't mean changes to make it happen weren't made long ago.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Crowyote wrote on 1/21/2023, 8:39 PM

I'm glad to hear of the AI improvements. Rendering times are a bitch with any level of complexity at present.
I also hope there will be functions for more RAM or VRAM utilization for those of us with fairly powerful CPUs and GPUs, so we can shave off even more time in renders.

I also hope the difficulty in opening VP20 in Windows 11 is fixed. Many time I have to open the program a ridiculous number of times before it will start, sometimes I have to go into Task Manager and shut down all the multiple instances of Vegas around 20x before will one will even kick in. Very strange!

Grazie wrote on 1/22/2023, 2:00 AM

If indeed Vegas has a long and profitable future, no one will be happier than me.

@ALO - In which case, maybe you should put yourself forward as a BETA Tester? I can only think that your outspoken wishes for better, would be welcomed by them that make these type of decisions. What have you got to loose? And maybe, just maybe, your adversarial approach, which you suggest is needed, would benefit the future development of VegasPro.

relaxvideo wrote on 1/22/2023, 2:01 AM

ALO:

"If indeed Vegas has a long and profitable future, no one will be happier than me."

MEEEE!

 

Grazie wrote on 1/22/2023, 2:05 AM

@ALO - A good start would be to add your specifications, capture devices and so on in your Signature?

relaxvideo wrote on 1/22/2023, 5:05 AM

Grazie: if everything is fine (hw/sw, system, drivers, standard camera files, etc) then Vegas could run hours or even days without any freeze or not responding issue like it should? I mean such man exist at all?

No joke, no offense, it's a simple question from me.

Grazie wrote on 1/22/2023, 5:31 AM

Grazie: if everything is fine (hw/sw, system, drivers, standard camera files, etc) then Vegas could run hours or even days without any freeze or not responding issue like it should? I mean such man exist at all?

No joke, no offense, it's a simple question from me.

@relaxvideo - You've lost me? Not an unusual position for me.

jetdv wrote on 1/22/2023, 7:24 AM

Grazie: if everything is fine (hw/sw, system, drivers, standard camera files, etc) then Vegas could run hours or even days without any freeze or not responding issue like it should? I mean such man exist at all?

And it DOES on my system. I often have the same instance of VEGAS open for DAYS - edit multiple projects on it. I just never shut it down unless I really need to. Just close that project and start the next one.

fr0sty wrote on 1/22/2023, 9:46 AM

Y'all won't have to wait much longer... at all... Keep an eye out!!! I'm kinda interested to see what you think of some of these new features. There's one... it isn't complete just yet but will launch in beta form... once it is done, it's going to be a pretty big deal. Those of you who do a lot of coloring or VFX will be very happy to see the team putting effort into this area. You'll get a preview of how it works, and we're anxiously awaiting your feedback on it to help improve it as it is developed. Definitely one of the more useful AI features to be added.

Those new color grading options are quite nice too! And that welcome screen.. You're soon going to see what I meant by "I've seen full numbered versions of VEGAS release with fewer new features."

We've been putting this release through its paces, and several projects later, I can say that, at least for me, it's one of the most stable VEGAS builds I have ever used. 2 full projects edited, both multicamera 10 bit 4:2:2, and not a single crash. I hope your experience is similar.

Last changed by fr0sty on 1/22/2023, 9:52 AM, changed a total of 4 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

relaxvideo wrote on 1/22/2023, 12:21 PM

Thanks jetdv! Good to know.
Do you edit avc or hevc? which container, resolution, fps?

jetdv wrote on 1/22/2023, 1:11 PM

@relaxvideo, Sources:

Osmo Pocket 1 4K

ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 40 s 440 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 98.2 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 100.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.395
Stream size                              : 474 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : DJI.AVC

GoPro 7 HD

ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 8 s
Bit rate                                 : 29.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 29.354 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 30.080 FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.479
Stream size                              : 243 MiB (99%)
Title                                    : GoPro AVC

GoPro 8 4K

ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 2 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 60.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.241
Stream size                              : 446 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : GoPro AVC 

As well as stream captures using VEGAS Stream capturing the display and the camera.

relaxvideo wrote on 1/23/2023, 2:27 AM

Thanks, so standard avc files should be fine in a correct system!
Whats yours? i don't find in your profile (cpu, vga, etc)

jetdv wrote on 1/23/2023, 7:34 AM
Processor    12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700H   2.30 GHz
Installed RAM    64.0 GB (63.7 GB usable)
Edition    Windows 11 Home
OS build    22000.1455
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 (Laptop)
Driver 512.96

 

Hulk wrote on 1/24/2023, 9:52 PM

Need to focus on fixing these consistent crashes

@james-daniels That has been a major focus of the team over the last few months. The beta testers have indicated that the application is quite stable right now, so we hope that experience is the same for all of our customers when this update is released.


@VEGASDerek,

This isn't your first try at a major Vegas build, and I assume you've had a similar beta test program in place in the past. Maybe it's time to take a look at the design of your beta testing program?

I do wonder if you have incentives in place that result in you getting less than complete feedback--or prevent you from discovering errors that inexperienced or atypical users are likely to generate.

My concern would be that you might have a trusted cadre of beta testers who all tend to be older (in age), highly experienced Vegas users who don't tend to do new things, ingest new formats, or click on things randomly. They probably have older, stable hardware.

Maybe try to get more adversarial people into your testing program? Increase the diversity, so to speak?

I really hope you guys pull this thing together. You are competing directly with Resolve, which is free, and which works. It really just works. I do find myself thinking that sand in the hourglass is going to run out on you sooner rather than later.

:(

Good points here. I would be even more concerned that some of these experienced beta testers who have been using Vegas for decades in some cases my through experience be using key sequences learned to avoid crashes in a Pavlovian conditioning manner. Do it this way and you will be rewarded with the lack of a freeze or crash subconscious thinking.

fr0sty wrote on 1/24/2023, 10:37 PM

Do you have evidence of this? Because that sounds kinda over the top... like we're holding out on everyone, using some hidden art to navigate around VEGAS crashing... It either works, or it doesn't. No cheat codes to make it work. For most of us, it just works, If you have a differing experience, let us know, so we can tell the development team and fix it... but conspiracy theories aren't doing anyone any good.

VEGASDerek wrote on 1/25/2023, 9:01 AM

@Hulk

It is very unfair to bash our beta testers like that. If this was 5 years ago, some of the points made by you and ALO would have held water to some extent. Since I have taken over the beta program, I have removed the "free loaders" and added a very diverse group of users to ensure we are exercising all parts of the application. And let me tell you, we have testers who nitpick the hell out the work we are doing and many show frustration with the speed that our small team has been able to address both bugs and adding important features within VEGAS. When we did an open call for new beta testers 3 years ago, I purposely added people who had been extremely adversarial to VEGAS and our team. To say they are not asking for new features or formats is ridiculous and, in fact, many of the requested new features in that huge thread on this forum have been made by the beta testers.

I never said VEGAS was bug free and never said we were done fixing the issues within the application. I can say that with the help of our beta test team, who have been extremely engaged with us, the application has made some substantial strides in terms of stability and our analytics are showing that. The fact that we have not been able to address every single bug or crash, specifically ones that you and a few vocal others are griping about, is not because we are negligent or ignorant. We are addressing items which we have identified as affecting the most people. Some of these things take longer to find solutions to than others. It took almost 8 months to finally fix the HEVC instability we had seen since the middle of the VP 19 release cycle.

All this aside, the fact that users like you are so frustrated with how VEGAS is being developed does show us that our users have a great passion for this product and we do take it to heart when our users feel let down. We want to do better and are working hard to improve things.

And if at some point we have another open call for new beta testers (which, if it happens, would be announced on the forums like it was 3 years ago), be sure to put your name in for consideration if you truly want to help make VEGAS better.

In the mean time, endless and aimless rants do not help anything. If you are having a specific problem, post it in a thread here on the forum and let's work together on getting down to the specifics of it so it can be addressed.

Hulk wrote on 1/25/2023, 9:41 AM

@Hulk

It is very unfair to bash our beta testers like that. If this was 5 years ago, some of the points made by you and ALO would have held water to some extent. Since I have taken over the beta program, I have removed the "free loaders" and added a very diverse group of users to ensure we are exercising all parts of the application. And let me tell you, we have testers who nitpick the hell out the work we are doing and many show frustration with the speed that our small team has been able to address both bugs and adding important features within VEGAS. When we did an open call for new beta testers 3 years ago, I purposely added people who had been extremely adversarial to VEGAS and our team. To say they are not asking for new features or formats is ridiculous and, in fact, many of the requested new features in that huge thread on this forum have been made by the beta testers.

I never said VEGAS was bug free and never said we were done fixing the issues within the application. I can say that with the help of our beta test team, who have been extremely engaged with us, the application has made some substantial strides in terms of stability and our analytics are showing that. The fact that we have not been able to address every single bug or crash, specifically ones that you and a few vocal others are griping about, is not because we are negligent or ignorant. We are addressing items which we have identified as affecting the most people. Some of these things take longer to find solutions to than others. It took almost 8 months to finally fix the HEVC instability we had seen since the middle of the VP 19 release cycle.

All this aside, the fact that users like you are so frustrated with how VEGAS is being developed does show us that our users have a great passion for this product and we do take it to heart when our users feel let down. We want to do better and are working hard to improve things.

And if at some point we have another open call for new beta testers (which, if it happens, would be announced on the forums like it was 3 years ago), be sure to put your name in for consideration if you truly want to help make VEGAS better.

In the mean time, endless and aimless rants do not help anything. If you are having a specific problem, post it in a thread here on the forum and let's work together on getting down to the specifics of it so it can be addressed.

Sometimes when you are experienced with a certain application you learn keystroke sequences that are optimal through behavioral conditioning. I'm "guilty" of that as well. I don't see how that is bashing anyone? It's reality. I WAS a beta tester for Vegas 20 years ago and did some work for Sony demonstrating Vegas so I have nothing against Vegas or the beta testers. I know that my contributions to this forum over the past 25 years have been positive and I have been and continue to be a proponent and advocate of Vegas. I have never been a basher, have never shown such tendencies, or other trolling behavior to suggest my post was intended to be anything but helpful to Vegas development.

To be honest, you are being very sensitive to possible ideas to improve Vegas that don't align with your pre-held opinions. If you as judgmental with the beta testers as you were with my innocuous comment and if I was one of them I would be very careful giving about any feedback that could be construed as negative. Perhaps you are feeling the need to defend the beta testers. I understand that but you might want to step back and regain some perspective.

I have witness actual bashing of Vegas, the developers, Magix, and the beta testers around here with less pushback than my comment, which was an honest observation with no malice.

I'm going to exit this discussion now as you have effectively shut me down to providing my thoughts on how to improve Vegas. It isn't worth the reprisal I may receive and I honestly don't have the time to deal with posts like yours. I have learned my lesson and will endeavor to keep my fingers quiet.

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 1/25/2023, 2:03 PM

@Hulk Actually you are the one who needs to step back and regain some perspective!

walter-i. wrote on 1/25/2023, 2:29 PM

@Hulk Actually you are the one who needs to step back and regain some perspective!

+1
Reading the thread from a neutral position, I too have the impression that it is you who is indulging in insinuations, assumptions and hostility.

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 3:13 PM

That's the main thing about what you have said... you created a conspiracy theory that we're all just programmed/conditioned to not make VEGAS crash, that every beta tester is some VEGAS old-head who has been using it for decades and just knows how to make it work... without any real evidence to back your point, to try to imply that we're not fit to do our jobs.. It's the assumption required to reach that point, the creation of a "we know all the magic buttons to push" theory, and then using that as a basis to assume we're not good at our jobs... that is where you took things way too far. You aren't offering points of view to help improve the product, you are making huge assumptions based on incomplete knowledge and using that to imply we can't do a good job. Huge difference.

The Beta team is kicking ass right now, as is the development team... but there's only so much a handful of coders can pull off, and things have to be prioritized. They/We're doing our best.

Last changed by fr0sty on 1/25/2023, 3:20 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

RogerS wrote on 1/25/2023, 10:57 PM

I thought it was satire as the idea of Pavlovian conditioned button pressing to avoid crashes is a very funny idea.

Really thought beta testing and QA are distinct and just because testers find issues doesn't mean they can be immediately addressed given resource limitations. I wish Magix would invest more in Vegas and better integrate its products.