VP19 B550 Render is slow

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 4/12/2022, 12:49 PM

@alifftudm95

Search the forum for "Sony A7Siii" and you'll find many discussions about this camera and the recording format.

An Example: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/hevc-10-bit-422-and-420-howsit-going-magix-vp19-update-below--125821/#ca789338

Since I have no plans for buying the camera, I haven't followed the progress closely, but I'd suggest that based on your timeline and render performance on this date, the best way out of this mess is to transcode to ProRes using an external encoder.

Note that the Shutter Encoder uses the CPU at ~100%.

"I dont have the luxury to transcode all of this 200+GB file to ProRes that will create 400-500GB of file."

Last time I checked, hard drives were a lot cheaper than the Sony A7siii.

My standard hard drive: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1463049-REG/wd_wdbbur0080bnc_wrsn_ultrastar_8tb_3_5_drive.html

Sony A7Siii: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1577838-REG/sony_ilce7sm3_b_alpha_a7s_iii_mirrorless.html

My main system:
Motherboard: Asus X99-AII
CPU: Intel i7-6850K
GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX480-8GB
RAM: Corsair Dominator (4 x 4 GB) DDR4 2400
Disk O/S & Programs: Intel SSD 750 (400 GB)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: Corsair Hydro series H115i
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Crystal Sound 3 on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: Asus ProArt PA248q (24" 1920 x 1200)
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 190943
Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

Gid wrote on 4/12/2022, 1:10 PM

@alifftudm95 Tried it on Hitfilm Pro & free DaVinci Resolve they don't play on those but..

Magix Movie Edit Pro Premium had no prob , In this vid I added prerender just to see how it handled it but previously i'd already exported without adding prerender & export time was approx the same,

This your file i downloaded in the vid, 45secs-ish to export

I put it on YT for better res..👍

( Mine is up to date latest version, still called MEP Premium but Movie Studio Platinum/Suite now i think, i get the image of Venis when the program opens)

 

 

Last changed by Gid on 4/12/2022, 3:28 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Vegas Pro 19 (Latest build), HitFilm Pro,  
Boris Continuum, Sapphire, Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, Optics,
TurboCAD Platinum 2021
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(Windows & programs on one, temp project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 mounted Fans
2 x Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Hard Drives for file storage.

I'm 53, I've been a UK joiner for 37yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that i can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
 

john_dennis wrote on 4/12/2022, 1:37 PM

@lan-mLMC

Shutter Encoder transcodes these files to ProRes in less time than your quoted numbers plus you get good timeline performance in Vegas Pro 19, everyone's favorite NLE.

My main system:
Motherboard: Asus X99-AII
CPU: Intel i7-6850K
GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX480-8GB
RAM: Corsair Dominator (4 x 4 GB) DDR4 2400
Disk O/S & Programs: Intel SSD 750 (400 GB)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: Corsair Hydro series H115i
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Crystal Sound 3 on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: Asus ProArt PA248q (24" 1920 x 1200)
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 190943
Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

Gid wrote on 4/12/2022, 2:23 PM

@alifftudm95 Your second sample C5407 on Vegas works fine,

This is second time around as you can see from Taskmanager but i only played the first half then decided to screen record it, Video Encode in Taskmanager is thee screen capture,

This is it without screen capture recording, a little hiccup to start playing but quickly gets to 50fps & stays at 50fps when it loops.

Vegas Pro 19 (Latest build), HitFilm Pro,  
Boris Continuum, Sapphire, Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, Optics,
TurboCAD Platinum 2021
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(Windows & programs on one, temp project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 mounted Fans
2 x Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Hard Drives for file storage.

I'm 53, I've been a UK joiner for 37yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that i can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
 

3POINT wrote on 4/12/2022, 3:21 PM

It's shocking the difference between DRS and VP when playing these files in the timeline. In DRS they play absolutely fluent and rendering to 1080p50 with Voukoder on my PC goes with an average of 80-90fps.

To achieve same preview experience and rendering in VP the @john_dennis proposed option to transcode first to Prores with Shutter Encoder is a worthwhile option/workaround. Transcoding to Prores with Shutter Encoder goes rather quickly.

todd-b wrote on 4/12/2022, 6:09 PM

Normally you would be better suited to using HEVC legacy (assuming no GPU decode compatibility), as that will allow Vegas to use a multi threaded workload for playback, in comparison to the heavily single core processing of SO4, however in this case It is not using all the cores, it's using s04 no matter what decoder you choose.

This is probably happening because Vegas (the company) know Legacy decoder can't decode the file, so instead of causing Vegas to crash or not display the file it uses SO4. The file structure looks like something Vegas doesn't like, Lots of B frames.Vegas edits much better with footage I've used that contained no B frames or only a single one. This is your file.

If you choose to transcode to prores be certain to check your sync, as there is an issue with A/V sync being out by approx 2-3 frames (60fps timeline) I can vaguely recall a user believing it was not a problem for Pal timelines 25/50fps, search forum for clarification

alifftudm95 wrote on 4/13/2022, 12:34 AM

@Gid Movie Edit Pro seems like the only software can decode HEVC effortlessly, mind blowing

todd-b wrote on 4/13/2022, 12:55 AM

@alifftudm95 Both Premiere and Resolve Studio play your files back effortlessly with your level of hardware. @Gid has free Resolve, BM make you pay for 10bit AVC & HEVC playback . Hitfilm Pro not playing is interesting

Gid wrote on 4/13/2022, 4:36 AM

 

Render time ( 1920*1080 25fps 17Mbps Nvdia) :

Premiere Pro : 2:07

Resolve Studio : 2:53

So you can try Premiere Pro.

@alifftudm95 Yeah for cheap software it does well 👍

@lan-mLMC's quote above, as said i have free Resolve & don'r have Premiere so can't compare those times

Resolve Studio, £270.00

Premiere Pro subscription only

MEP Premium £50 , 45secs render time on my pc,

Resolve Studio does have quite a few more features than MEP, 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

@todd-b I'll have another go with Hitfilm tonight but it just loaded audio only on the C8761 file.

Vegas Pro 19 (Latest build), HitFilm Pro,  
Boris Continuum, Sapphire, Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, Optics,
TurboCAD Platinum 2021
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(Windows & programs on one, temp project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 mounted Fans
2 x Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Hard Drives for file storage.

I'm 53, I've been a UK joiner for 37yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that i can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G
 

alifftudm95 wrote on 4/14/2022, 3:02 AM

@alifftudm95 

Make sure you have enable "hardware-accelerated gpu scheduling"

In social groupe, I've seen it improve the utilization of some GTX 1080 Ti to 100% in VEGAS Pro.

Wow, would give that a try!

todd-b wrote on 4/14/2022, 4:53 AM

@alifftudm95 

Make sure you have enable "hardware-accelerated gpu scheduling"

In social groupe, I've seen it improve the utilization of some GTX 1080 Ti to 100% in VEGAS Pro.

@lan-mLMC can you explain what your GPU graph is showing, and what Vegas is doing, also what did the graph look like before GPU scheduling was turned on?

Do the spikes represent encoding, processing or decoding?

Was there an increase in playback or render performance?

The HEVC via SO4 decoder poor performance is not a GPU problem, but if you believe turning GPU scheduling on can increase performance of Vegas in general then it should be looked into to confirm

todd-b wrote on 4/14/2022, 5:07 AM

@lan-mLMC I turned this on a year ago because I think the encode/delay/encode/delay you see in NVENC encoding is what GPU scheduling is supposed to improve. Replaces CPU controlled frame buffering with GPU scheduling. I didn't see any change for NVENC encoding, the encode 60 frames, delay, encode 60 frames, delay still remains

Yelandkeil wrote on 4/14/2022, 6:10 AM

My hardware doesn't have this setting, too. I think it's a balance between battery endurance and HW performance.

A similar setting in the MS-Edge is more remarkable:

And without this setting you can't get online HDR10-video playing - here with my HW for VP9.

While the VP9 is playing back well, you will notice the performance is mainly not from CPU, this observation happens also in MC-HC player with 10bit422HEVC - having said this, the VEGAS GPU-Acceleration fails in this function.

Correction: the VEGAS GPU-Acceleration achieves the same performance, but the timeline can't go smoothly, or just stucks. Don't know why:

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 4/14/2022, 6:24 AM, changed a total of 2 times.


Adrenalin 22.5.1 (WHQL) + 2xDP: Samsung (LU28R55x) 4k60Hz 300cd/m²HDR10 
Realtek 6.0.9239.1 (ALC1200 Backplate): ROCCAT Kave Solid 5.1Surround Headset/Mic 
USB Imput: iRig midi24Keys 
USB Device: Card Reader/Writer 

Vegaspro19 + DVDArchi7 + XMediaRecode 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgpro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayers7 
K-LitecodecPack1662 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

Paul-Jonack wrote on 4/22/2022, 10:10 AM

i had same experience with 10 bit 422 codec from The Lumix S5. My Timeline runs smooth for 10 seconds on "automatic" preiview. but after 10 seconds i have like 1fps

todd-b wrote on 4/22/2022, 8:07 PM

Correction: the VEGAS GPU-Acceleration achieves the same performance, but the timeline can't go smoothly, or just stucks. Don't know why:

@Yelandkeil You can see the reason in your CPU graph, SO4 HEVC decoder is single threaded. For AVC decode it is multi-threaded but is very inefficient, it uses much more CPU then NLE competitors and also it's own Legacy AVC decoder. If SO4 is still so poor at using CPU resources 5 years after it's introduction it most likely can't be improved

 

terry-d wrote on 4/25/2022, 4:31 AM

i was getting 9 FPS 1660 super HEVC

Yelandkeil wrote on 4/25/2022, 5:09 AM

@terry-d how did you get THAT 9fps with 1660super?!!!

This is reported by @Gid, and he has an RTX3090:

Yep playback of that file pretty much non existent, just a static image on screen.

@todd-b, yes I see it.

But by MS-Edge and/or MC-HC-player it's also only single/double cores, they playing well (10bit420/422HEVC) even with full screen resolution.

I suspect the problem comes from the (old) construction of the timeline, say video editing track.

Another noticeable one is, I have two HEVC decoder in my system.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 4/25/2022, 5:20 AM, changed a total of 1 times.


Adrenalin 22.5.1 (WHQL) + 2xDP: Samsung (LU28R55x) 4k60Hz 300cd/m²HDR10 
Realtek 6.0.9239.1 (ALC1200 Backplate): ROCCAT Kave Solid 5.1Surround Headset/Mic 
USB Imput: iRig midi24Keys 
USB Device: Card Reader/Writer 

Vegaspro19 + DVDArchi7 + XMediaRecode 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgpro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayers7 
K-LitecodecPack1662 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

terry-d wrote on 4/25/2022, 5:24 AM

is 9 FPS slow have to excuse me as im new to this

Yelandkeil wrote on 4/25/2022, 5:39 AM

It's marvelous. Just wonder how you did it. My machine plays back a static image, too, like @Gid, maximal a few dots there extra.


Adrenalin 22.5.1 (WHQL) + 2xDP: Samsung (LU28R55x) 4k60Hz 300cd/m²HDR10 
Realtek 6.0.9239.1 (ALC1200 Backplate): ROCCAT Kave Solid 5.1Surround Headset/Mic 
USB Imput: iRig midi24Keys 
USB Device: Card Reader/Writer 

Vegaspro19 + DVDArchi7 + XMediaRecode 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgpro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayers7 
K-LitecodecPack1662 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

xcxz-a wrote on 5/14/2022, 12:33 AM

@kaylaalg @Gid @todd-b Hello, that post was banned by EricLNZ, we can continue discussion and benchmark in this post.

todd-b wrote on 5/14/2022, 1:08 AM

@xcxz-a Well it's a bit unusual. You made a statement about Resolve, indirectly claiming Gaussian blur was able to use less GPU to do the same work as far as Gaussian blur in Vegas. I did not think you were correct so fact checked you by trying the project which was the subject of that discussion and thread, and found you to be correct.

Had I found you to be incorrect and Vegas was equal or better at the same task would the thread still be locked?