Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?

set wrote on 1/26/2023, 4:31 PM

I have been using 8-bit (Full Range) a whole time, but I believe there much more potential for having better result with 32bit (Full Range) Pixel Format. However, in 32bit, that means you have more customization on settings, like the ACES Color space, Media Color space input, or even decide of whether you want to use VEGAS-supplied IDT LUTS or use Manufacturer's IDT LUTS through Color Grading Panel. (I wonder also of the Color Space selection of 'Default' in Media setting. What is 'Default' ?)

These customizations can make your result better, but on the other side also a pitfall to a lot of confusion.

Target video is to be published YouTube or Social Media.

Last week had a chance to go with 10 bit source records (XAVC-HS 4K 4:2:2), and I just tried my best:

set to 32bit full range pixel format
View Transform, which is my basic daily monitor, then sRGB (ACES)
Set Media Color Space input to match my recording setting, which is Sony Slog3 & Sgamut3.cine
Do color fix and grading through Color Grading Panel tool.

Like to hear your opinions regarding this 32bit pipeline workflow and reason of your selection decision.

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Comments

Illusion wrote on 2/6/2023, 11:33 AM

True, but this is the gamma of video anyway. And if you use the 32bit floating point (full range) with a gamma of 2,222 (video), then the media properties of the footage MUST be set to full. With undefined or limited, clipping in the luminance takes place.

So to avoid this riks, the recommendation is to stick to video levels.

I am working with 32FR all the time with a mix of GoPro 4k (full range) and Sony XAVC (limited range) and I don't see the problem you describe. My GoPro footage is automatically set to Full by Vegas and my Sony is also set automatically to Limited by Vegas. The Limited range footage (16-235) gets expanded to 0-255 when using Full Range timeline. 16-255 might be a different story. For this, I would still use FR timeline, mark it Full as you said but use a Level FX at media level to trim the low end.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/6/2023, 1:27 PM

Only, because you do not see the problem, does not mean that it does not exist. Sony XAVC footage is a professionell format, know it quite well from my older FS7. But there are not only such professional cameras. And if your footage 16..235 is expanded to the full range, that means (at least) some points:

- your XAVC footage is not any more the original footage, after the import in Vegas. But that should not happen. It should be your decision, if that change from 16..235 to full range has to happen or not.
- even worser for all our more consumer oriented cameras, who deliver either 16..255 or even 0..255. To expand the (partly) full range means that you clip the footage, loose a part of the signal - regardless if you as user agree to that or not. Ok, the systematic analyses shows how that can be avoided. But it is not the job of the user to explore the behaviour of a tool in such a way. He simply needs a tool that is doing, what the user wants the tool to do.
- in the age of log and HDR, this all tends to become historical. Typically, we work here with full range, and should be able to ignore the rest.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/7/2023, 12:44 AM

Have checked that with my GH4 footage again. Shoot with a range of 0..255, it is detected as "limited" footage in Vegas Pro 20. So, you never can be sure that Vegas can identify the true range of your footage really.

So. if one uses the project settings "8bit (full range)", clipping will occure. The footage must be set manually in the media properties to "full", then it is fine.

John-Lenihan wrote on 2/23/2024, 10:51 AM

I don't see any place to to say render as Hdr 10 or hlg?

I have been trying to learn how to produce HDR form the canon xf605. I read everything you guys said.

I recorded a clip in 4k 422 10 bit with clog3 c.gamut.

I imported it into vp20.

I selected the clip properties and set them to clog3 cinema gamut. Put clip in timeline.

I set the project properties to 4k 32 floating point. HDR off. No transform.

I Opened the color grading and selected the video buss. Selected input transform to clog3 to 709, since my monitor is SDR. Video looks fine on preview.

Then I turned the input lut off.

Then I went to render and chose UHD hevc preset under magix hevc choices.

I don't see any place to to say render as Hdr 10 or hlg. If I render at this point the metadata contains nothing about HDR.

I have tried things for several days before bothering you folks. But what am I missing?

John Lenihan

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/24/2024, 1:13 AM

I set the project properties to 4k 32 floating point. HDR off. No transform.

you have to switch to HDR10 project settings, then the HDR render templates become available.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/25/2024, 10:39 AM

@John-Lenihan Not sure you can effectively grade hdr without an hdr monitor. I have an xf605 myself but only my laptop has an hdr display. So I've only dabbled with it. Had so set Windows for hdr in System/Display and set Vegas project properties to 32-bit-fullrange, enable hdr, and use Aces instead of LUTs. Canon has Aces idt files for its cameras that you can download. But Vegas does not have a way for users to load them. I don't know if the ones built into Vegas by developers are up-to-date. They can be user-installed into Resolve Studio, however.