Remove music? Sound levels?

EfGe wrote on 6/22/2022, 7:03 AM

I was told by a person who I trust on this, that there is a way to remove background music without much if at all affecting the rest of the audio. They told me that they do this in Adobe Audtion, whatever that is. I don't have it or going to get it any time soon, so I was wondering if there is something similar with Vegas Pro.

 

Also, for the life of me I don't remember, which way to set the audio to be around the same dB lever at all time? Is it with the compressor?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

Comments

RogerS wrote on 6/22/2022, 7:31 AM

For background music- is it already its own file? If so just drop the audio level for that clip ("ducking").

Otherwise you need fairly sophisticated sound processing to do that (for example an interview in a noisy restaurant). IzoTope RX can do that kind of cleanup. Waves Clarity can, too.

For loudness try the loudness log in Vegas. If it's too quiet overall you can use a compressor to tame the peaks and then increase the loudness overall.

EfGe wrote on 6/22/2022, 7:39 AM

For background music- is it already its own file? If so just drop the audio level for that clip ("ducking").

The file has all the sounds (sfx, dialogue and music) and I want to remove the music.

 

RogerS wrote on 6/22/2022, 7:54 AM

Then you need software capable of doing this. I recommended two programs. Spectralayers may have a way to do it too but I'm not familiar with it. It isn't an easy thing to do.

jetdv wrote on 6/22/2022, 8:00 AM

@EfGe, think of it this way. You're given a cake - but now you want to remove the sugar and flour. Not an easy prospect. Software has improved but you have to remember that some of the music is going to be in the same frequency range as the voice.

I have some footage where the wind overpowered the voice. I've gotten surprisingly good results using the eFX Vocal Strip audio effect in VEGAS Pro 19 using the Female Voiceover Soft preset.

rraud wrote on 6/22/2022, 10:13 AM

Un-bake the cake .. Steinberg's SpetraLayers Pro has automatic processes that can break a file down to component layers, (aka, stems) and the music layers can be removed or the layer(s) that are wanted can be exported. How well it works depends on the source. With a good quality source file, the music components can be removed completely (or at least to inaudible levels) With less-than-good quality source material, remaining music artifacts, can be removed by editing the spectral graph directly, (though there is a learning curve for this.. experience with Photoshop or other image editing software lessens the learning curve). SLP costs significantly less than iZ's RX Advanced, but it is still far from freeware. SLP is however included with the Sound Forge Pro Suite, and IMO worth the cost of a Sound Forge upgrade alone..
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Dexcon wrote on 6/22/2022, 10:22 AM

+1 to what @rraud advised. SpectraLayers Pro has a trial version to test it before purchasing - https://www.steinberg.net/spectralayers/

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Den24601 wrote on 6/22/2022, 10:32 AM

Samplitude Pro X7 Suite includes SpectralLayers Pro 8 with a free upgrade to 9

EfGe wrote on 7/1/2022, 7:15 AM

Thank you guys for the suggestions. Paying for anything is something that will have to wait for now so I am doing this with the long and slow way.

Any suggestions for a good tutorial on Vegas Pro on how to raise and lower audio levels in a track so that it remains between certain levels when it is over certain other level? A search on youtube was disappointing to say the least.

 

RogerS wrote on 7/1/2022, 8:55 AM

"to raise and lower audio levels in a track so that it remains between certain levels when it is over certain other level"

Could you explain what you mean by this? What kind of tracks? Are you talking about ducking audio?

rraud wrote on 7/1/2022, 10:06 AM

I am not familiar with Vegas tutorials, but just about any peak limiter would keep a track from exceeding a set level. Many limiters, like Magix's Core FX peak limiter has a "ceiling" parameter, so for instance, if it is set to -5.0dB, no audio on the track will exceed that level (assuming channel's volume fader is at unity gain). LoudMax is a clean sounding peak limiter that many folks like and it is freeware. Both are simple to operate with only two basic parameters to set (ceiling and threshold). A combination of manually drawing a track volume envelope in combination with a peak limiter is best. Search for a tutorials for Vegas 'volume envelopes'.

todd-b wrote on 7/1/2022, 8:52 PM

I was told by a person who I trust on this, that there is a way to remove background music without much if at all affecting the rest of the audio. They told me that they do this in Adobe Audtion, whatever that is. I don't have it or going to get it any time soon, so I was wondering if there is something similar with Vegas Pro.

 

Youtube has done this for the last decade. It is not perfect, in this example it removes a lot of background atmospheric noise. It's probably does this via phase inversion of the waveform, rather than AI, and that's probably what Audition does too, but may do a better job due to being able to dedicate more processing power. YouTube needs to be more efficient due to it's huge user base.

This is a YouTube example of removing original music and replacing with copyright free

rraud wrote on 7/2/2022, 9:53 AM

The phase inversion method can work okay on 'some' material, but not very good on others. There are a lot of these around for free and are included in other audio apps (Audacity and Sound Forge Audio Studio for instance).
The previously mentioned A.I. programs are the best bet.

todd-b wrote on 7/2/2022, 9:53 PM

@rraud I meant to point out also, YouTube removed the music, leaving remaining audio, I added the replacement music in Vegas, you don't have to replace the music with a terrible generic offering from YT as part of the process, but with these free apps doing the same, it doesn't sound necessary to use YT as a tool for this at all.

Where this method goes wrong is if the music isn't LINE, it may be picked up by a microphone from a speaker playing the music across the room. The music you're trying to get rid off may now be so different to the original music you're using to cancel out the unwanted music that it doesn't work properly, leaving some sort of residual, often a hollow echo. An AI approach should be able to understand the problem.

fr0sty wrote on 7/3/2022, 8:59 AM

Any suggestions for a good tutorial on Vegas Pro on how to raise and lower audio levels in a track so that it remains between certain levels when it is over certain other level? A search on youtube was disappointing to say the least.

This sounds like you are describing audio compressors... they are available in the vegas audio fx. lots of youtube tutorials to choose from on them, and they have built in presets.

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EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 4:24 AM

"to raise and lower audio levels in a track so that it remains between certain levels when it is over certain other level"

Could you explain what you mean by this? What kind of tracks? Are you talking about ducking audio?

A track which contains everything, voice, music, sound effects and I want everything in it to be around the same db level.

EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 4:27 AM

I was told by a person who I trust on this, that there is a way to remove background music without much if at all affecting the rest of the audio. They told me that they do this in Adobe Audtion, whatever that is. I don't have it or going to get it any time soon, so I was wondering if there is something similar with Vegas Pro.

 

Youtube has done this for the last decade. It is not perfect, in this example it removes a lot of background atmospheric noise. It's probably does this via phase inversion of the waveform, rather than AI, and that's probably what Audition does too, but may do a better job due to being able to dedicate more processing power. YouTube needs to be more efficient due to it's huge user base.

This is a YouTube example of removing original music and replacing with copyright free

I know about youtube doing it, some times successfully others not so much. That doesn't really help me though. I can't rely on when youtube will do it, taking hours and even days. And that is if it works.

RogerS wrote on 7/4/2022, 4:28 AM

I think use the loudness meters to meet a reasonable target loudness with a compressor to bring down peaks. Or try a tool like Wavehammer Fx which is a compressor, limiter and volume maximizer in one. I'd still keep an eye on the loudness meters.

EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 4:29 AM

Any suggestions for a good tutorial on Vegas Pro on how to raise and lower audio levels in a track so that it remains between certain levels when it is over certain other level? A search on youtube was disappointing to say the least.

This sounds like you are describing audio compressors... they are available in the vegas audio fx. lots of youtube tutorials to choose from on them, and they have built in presets.

Oh there is no lack of videos. There is a lack of good videos.

EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 4:59 AM

I think I might have found a solution for the audio levels thingy.

It's called Wave Hammer Surround (I want to comment on the name, but I won't) and it's a Vegas Pro plug in. Bypassing the compressor, going in the volume maximizer tab. Setting there the output level to the max you want the sound to be and the Threshold to increase the overall volume. Mix as you like for your audio and it works.

OK I know nothing about whoever created the plugin, but my god I would have never guessed this name for solving this issue.

Glad it is built in the program though.

 

I found it thanks to this video from 2017. The video is far from perfect, but it is about 500% better than other tutorials I have seen online.

A friendly suggestion to anyone who makes or is considering making a tutorial for ANYTHING.

GET YOUR SCRIPT RIGHT! PRACTICE THE TUTORIAL! DON'T BE SURPRISED BY A RESULT AND GO BACK AND FORTH IN YOUR INSTRUCTIONS!

 

 

 

RogerS wrote on 7/4/2022, 5:38 AM

I recommended Wave Hammer above as it comes with Vegas. If you have certain sections of the audio that peak a lot you may well want a compressor to bring them down.

Glad it works for you.

EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 5:43 AM

I recommended Wave Hammer above as it comes with Vegas. If you have certain sections of the audio that peak a lot you may well want a compressor to bring them down.

Glad it works for you.

Thank you.

rraud wrote on 7/4/2022, 9:02 AM

Wave Hammer is is good and also has an auto-gain option. Assuming we are referring to the legacy (Direct X) version, it can produce distortion though, however for music, it is usually desirable, modeled after the UA 1176 FET vintage hardware leveler's saturation. It is not so nice sounding on dialog though if an excessive amount of gain reduction is needed.

EfGe wrote on 7/4/2022, 9:14 AM

Wave Hammer is is good and also has an auto-gain option. Assuming we are referring to the legacy (Direct X) version, it can produce distortion though, however for music, it is usually desirable, modeled after the UA 1176 FET vintage hardware leveler's saturation. It is not so nice sounding on dialog though if an excessive amount of gain reduction is needed.

Interesting information. Thank you.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/4/2022, 2:55 PM

You might also consider the simplistic approach of manual ducking... by throwing a volume envelope on your audio track and using breakpoints to lift the voice parts of the waveform and/or pulling down the background stuff in between. The waveform for voice can usually can be distinguished visually and confirmed by listening. If you select the voice sections with a mouse-click/drag, grabbing the envelope with the Normal Edit Tool will insert the breakpoints for you making the process pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

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