Vegas Became completely unusable

Comments

Former user wrote on 7/31/2022, 11:27 PM

@Former user I never go 32bit, i don't know enough about it, when i have had it t that it doesn't seem to do well & from what i've read it isn't necessary, not for me anyway 🤷‍♂️

@Former user I had thought using 8bit in Vegas it only samples 8bit color depth, not 10bit, so if you encode to 10bit, it's only working with 8bit color so you have to choose 32bit. But also it talks about precision rather than color depth so it's not 100% obvious. Can anyone comment on this?

 

'Tried your 8k file in MEP, proxy took about 5mins, export @ 8k took 4mins (8bit only, there's no 10bit in MEP), but playback on the timeline even with proxies was crap.'

I'll do it again tomorrow if you want but it wasn't useable, 3.55am here, i'm off to bed 🥱

Some comparisons for the 422 10bit 8K transcode to HEVC (No GPU decode)

Premiere Pro - 8bit 1:36, 10bit 2:17

Resolve 8bit 1:51, 10bit 2:01

Vegas pro 8bit 14:15, 10bit(32 bit project) 15:14 (values approximate based on 25% encode x 4)

RogerS wrote on 7/31/2022, 11:38 PM

I had thought using 8bit in Vegas it only samples 8bit color depth, not 10bit, so if you encode to 10bit, it's only working with 8bit color so you have to choose 32bit.

That's my understanding and reading of the help as well. To get the full precision of 10-bit media you need to be in a 32-bit mode before rendering.

Bruggeling wrote on 8/1/2022, 6:35 AM
2. Let's study 1000 page manuals , how to make a simple Transition in adobe and resolve.
What were you doing around the time Sony Vegas was officially shut down? Let's be happy that we can still discuss his future

Been working with Vegas since version 8. So I have it in my fingers.

Due to the current instability of Vegas I am looking at DaVinci Resolve. Making a simple transition is simple, not as simple like in Vegas but not rocket science either. Of course learning a giant piece of software requires time and effort, but I would like to edit without the constant stress of crashes and then finding out what part of the work was auto-saved.

I keep following events on this forum.

 

 

pierre-k wrote on 8/1/2022, 7:09 AM
 

Due to the current instability of Vegas I am looking at DaVinci Resolve. Making a simple transition is simple, not as simple like in Vegas but not rocket science either. Of course learning a giant piece of software requires time and effort, but I would like to edit without the constant stress of crashes and then finding out what part of the work was auto-saved.

I keep following events on this forum.

 

 

Ctrl+S is the ideal shortcut for your stress from falling and loss. I use it so often at work that I don't even notice this action with my fingers anymore. As automatic as Ctrl+C/V or S for cutting. When I freeze, I know I've only lost a few steps back.

I know it's frustrating. I completely understand your hopelessness.

Former user wrote on 8/1/2022, 9:59 AM

@Former user 👍

@pierre-k @Bruggeling I have Live save turned on for just such crashes.

I'd just like to mention i've just added AVC export times to my very first post about exporting a 25mins project of 4k, to - 'MEP exports 8bit HEVC in about 8mins (no 10bit export tho) & the same project exported in AVC in 5mins,' Speed does make a huge difference to me, when i can export a project in the time it takes to go make a cuppa, then watch it through to check it while drinking that cuppa, only having to sit through another 5mins export if i do have to correct something, then get that uploaded to YT in the same night, quite often i finish editing late at night or early morning,

Jack S wrote on 8/1/2022, 10:08 AM

@pierre-k When I freeze, I know I've only lost a few steps back.

If you turn on Live Save, you won't lose anything.

Ah, @Former user got there before me.😉

Last changed by Jack S on 8/1/2022, 10:09 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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j-v wrote on 8/1/2022, 10:20 AM

@Kloverton

Preview playback is not really a problem after proxy and set to preview good or Draft Full, it's the render i can't make to happen

I must have missed your used rendertemplate.
Maybe you can tell us again which (customized ?) rendertemplate did you used for your rendering and what is the goal for your rendered file? Screenshot please.

 

Last changed by j-v on 8/1/2022, 10:22 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

pierre-k wrote on 8/1/2022, 10:20 AM

Live save is not ideal for me. Saves even when I don't want to. Sometimes I just try something in a project and know that I don't need to save it. It is also known during playback when Vegas starts saving. Everything is known with 4-core Xenon.

I'm already used to ctrl+s.

iEmby wrote on 8/1/2022, 11:12 AM

Fantastic performance by the way, trying to render 7 seconds of 4K. You guessed it right, it eventually stuck.

@Kloverton have u tried this method?

- by disable resampling

- set field order to None (Progressive Scan)

- set deinterlaced method to None

-

- rendering in image sequence (png, jpeg or tiff)

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https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-eoLmuXzshTRH_8RunAYAuNocKpiLoiV&usp=drive_fs

 

Also Check

Some useful creations by me including VEGAS Scripts

https://getopensofts.blogspot.com/

 

My YouTube Channel Dedicated to Only VEGAS Pro Tutorials

EDITROOM : My YouTube Channel (For VEGAS Tutorials)

Kloverton wrote on 8/1/2022, 12:31 PM

Tried to make same project in Davinci. 100% GPU Utilization Rendering 8K h.265. 15-18FPS while rendering, VS 0-2fps in Vegas.

That's all need to be seen, in order to understand that the problem is Vegas, not the GPU not supporting H.265. 15 Minutes to Render Full 8K h.265 10 min Video, when it took me same amount of time in vegas, to render 30 seconds. There are no settings in Vegas that will fix it, cause I tried all the settings, render templates, life hacks and etc. Vegas is a Problem at it's core, and listening to stories that GPU can't render H.265 in 8K, is just funny, after seeing these in Davinci. Thanks for your help guys, but all those buttons in settings won't fix anything, as it hasn't in the last 10+ years for me. You need to stop closing your eyes on these and searching for solution, cause you paid your money for it to work, insted, many people just wasting their time on crashes and hours of waiting to render. Cool for those who don't have problems with vegas, but it doesn't mean that the problem doesnt exist, it is here at it's core, and Vegas is no more functional for me, and other people even here, in these thread. Thats a straight fact, and justifying devs for great new features is OK, but it's not OK to ingnore the core and most important problem, when it works fine for you, and the probem I want to be solved, will make these software better for Everyone.

Last changed by Kloverton on 8/1/2022, 12:44 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Seb-o wrote on 8/1/2022, 2:17 PM

@Kloverton yes, hard to argue with raw numbers. EDLs and how they handle different video formats/codecs are somethimes YMMV, but sooner or later, the inherent Achilles heal must be addressed.

Former user wrote on 8/1/2022, 2:34 PM

@j-v Out of curiousity would you try @Kloverton's files again now you've rolled back Vegas ?

j-v wrote on 8/1/2022, 2:48 PM

Sorry, but I'm totally not interested in playing and rendering that kind of files for myself and the OP seems also not interested.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Kloverton wrote on 8/1/2022, 3:59 PM

Guys, i really don't want to switch from Vegas, cause I know everybutton I need, i can create video with a comfort in it, and I love it, but it leaves just no choice, I will see how these project will work in VP20, if it's all the same, than it's good buy, cause I can't wait for another year, in order just to complete the projects. I don't want to switch very badly.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

fr0sty wrote on 8/1/2022, 4:38 PM

So now the complaint has changed from not being able to render to how long it takes to render? Making sure we're all chasing the same ghost, here. The target seems to be changing...

Kloverton wrote on 8/1/2022, 5:15 PM

So now the complaint has changed from not being able to render to how long it takes to render? Making sure we're all chasing the same ghost, here. The target seems to be changing...

Target is not changed. I did state in the post that the problem is overall performance. Either rendering of speed, usage of GPU and CPU, so as a problem of rendering at all. Complaint hasn't changed, and stop protecting the marketing department of Vegas, cause everytime someone has problem with Vegas, I see you for decades here trying to help people, but at the same time protecting Vegas and switching topics, in order not to state the plane fact of software being stuck in time decade ago in terms of performance. It's not OK that I Spent 4-5 days, rendering 3-8 second clips and sticking it together in other soft, in order to complete a project. And also it's not OK to put a huge 8K golden Logo on the Vegas Website, stating that it Works with 8K, cause on practice, it's a slideshow game. Most people with new cameras and hardware did confirm these problems on practice, but as long as it doesn't affect you, it's not a problem of Vegas. And from these moment on, these soft is only usable to edit files from camcorders, cause all the new Hi Res files and H.265, are completely unusable, I will repeat, when it comes to not rendering just 2 shots I attached.

 

Meanwhile in Davinci i droped in Files, it played smooth in High quality without Proxy, and Rendered straight away with no question or ANY manipulations done in Setting. It works out of the box with NO problems. Vegas meanwhile, took me 24 hours to create all Proxy in order to have playble Preview, and Eventually didn't render project at all, even after ton of fixes tried. As long as you guys don't admit the problem, it will only be getting worse, and less people will use these Soft, and eventually there'll be no more money to continue to support it. By justifying those problems, you are creating bigger problem for yourself in future, and until everyone will just simply say - "Dear Developers, please fix Vegas core and Performance and file support, and than add as many cool features as you want", only small part of people will actually use Vegas for those features, while the vast majority will keep using Premier or Davincii, cause thats ther only choice to work with new camera files and resolutions.

Last changed by Kloverton on 8/1/2022, 5:18 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Former user wrote on 8/1/2022, 5:40 PM

Sorry, but I'm totally not interested in playing and rendering that kind of files for myself and the OP seems also not interested.


@j-v Sorry i should've known better 🤦‍♂️

fr0sty wrote on 8/1/2022, 5:53 PM

What you fail to understand is that fixing performance and stability isn't something that has been put on the back burner while they churn out new features, as I have spent way more time than I should have bothered to trying to explain to you earlier in this thread. Those things have been worked on the entire time, but they are things that take a very, very long time to fix for a team of 6 people (which was 5 people not all that long ago). And as I also said before... you can't expect all 6 of those people to be skilled at every single thing VEGAS does even though they are all programmers... just like you can't put a video editor, colorist, audio engineer, and special effects/motion graphics artist into the same room, and expect them all to know what to do if you say "ok, now all 4 of you edit this clip, or mix its audio, or animate its special effects"... some of them will have no idea what to do and will actually slow the process down as a result, as mixing sound isn't the colorist's specialty, and so on. I am speculating here, I can't say this is indeed the case with the VEGAS team, but it would only make sense to assume that each of them specializes in doing different things that make VEGAS work. So, putting a couple folks who do not specialize in what needs to be done to improve performance on making new features is not going to slow down the work on performance as a result. Don't just assume that because you are seeing new stuff added, that the work on performance and stability was put on the back burner in order to make it happen.

 

The team wants performance and stability more than we do, it's hurting their pockets in the end, just like it does ours by slowing us down, but they can only work so fast.

 

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/1/2022, 5:55 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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64GB 3000mhz DDR4

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fr0sty wrote on 8/1/2022, 6:00 PM

That said, this is a user help forum, not a "come here to vent about what you don't like about VEGAS" forum. If you want us to help you, then work with us as we try to... but if you're just here to complain, take it somewhere else. This is a user forum, staffed by fellow users... you are preaching to the choir. We know, we want it too, just like the team does. Send complaints to official VEGAS support, they get paid to deal with that.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/1/2022, 6:01 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Former user wrote on 8/1/2022, 6:39 PM

Guys, i really don't want to switch from Vegas, cause I know everybutton I need, i can create video with a comfort in it, and I love it, but it leaves just no choice, I will see how these project will work in VP20, if it's all the same, than it's good buy, cause I can't wait for another year, in order just to complete the projects. I don't want to switch very badly.

The biggest problem you are experiencing is Vegas not using your CPU to fullest extent for your particular 10bit HEVC files. That will be the same for everyone, a limitation of SO4 HEVC decoder. You have no option but to use HEVC 10bit with 8K and some frame rates but where possible use AVC. Vegas can use all your CPU then

The CPU and GPU have to work together, but in this example the GPU is constantly waiting on CPU. I've posted this before but seeing it often makes people understand. The comparison between 422 10 bit HEVC playback between Premiere and Vegas. Premiere like other NLE's is able to use all your CPU, while Vegas can't. It seems like something they could fix. the complete render engine rebuild a lot less likely.

I know you say you don't care as much about timeline performance (without proxies) but encoding is the same situation as playback, the same lack of CPU use.

john_dennis wrote on 8/1/2022, 7:44 PM

On the chance that someone might hold a gun to my head and force me to edit and render this type of source video, I developed a workflow that results in very good preview performance and mediocre render performance on my current hardware.

Disclaimers

All the proxy renders were done while I was otherwise living my life.

All my advice on this and every other forum where I contribute comes with a double your money back guarantee.

I see why my next machine will have at least 64GB of RAM, though 16GB hasn't been a problem in the past.

MagicYUV 10 bit 422 really shines in this scenario. Uncompressed YUV 10Bits 422 in a MOV wrapper from Shutter Encoder, not so much. I'll talk to Paul about that.

No LUTS were used or harmed in this example.

I always keep my camera purchases behind the NLE curve instead of ahead of it.

Seb-o wrote on 8/1/2022, 9:14 PM

@fr0sty, @Kloverton -- It's very OK to defend the 5-6 developers (of whom, maybe only one or two are up to the task of an actual re-write, the others focused on specialized areas)

NOBODY is against the idea that the dev. TEAM is doing great work.

The PROBLEM is with OWNERSHIP, whomever that may be (and I've expressed a range of thoughts on that) and IF it would be MAGIX, well...dammit, Magix, put some actual muscle into this and quit jerking our chain. There's absolutely NO reason a program as well thought out as VEGAS gets the bastard stepchild treatment. Resolve was NEVER even an editor (as we think of an NLE) until about eight years ago. Vegas is more than twenty years old!! Magix NEW CEO??? GREAT, HEAR THIS: BUY BRAINS and make it happen. They have had TREMENDOUS talent inside the MAGIX camp, for decades. Sure, they come and go (Volker??) But what people like Kloverton (and myself for that matter, and tons more) have been asking for IS NOT UNDOABLE.

fr0sty wrote on 8/1/2022, 9:41 PM

We've established that we've got a new CEO in the game.

We've established that members of Team VEGAS now have an important role at Magix over their video products.

We also know that not a lot of time has passed since these changes have happened... and in the software world, making such changes takes a while before it manifests into actual working, tested code that we get to install... so let's all take a deep breath, and know that the team is working on it as fast as they can, and they've been listening to our cries for years, and passing those cries up the chain to Magix, now more than ever before. Let's give it time to work through the system.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/1/2022, 9:42 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Seb-o wrote on 8/1/2022, 9:42 PM

@Fr0sty, you are an excellent source of help and advice, for the MOST PART. I've also seen you give whack advice from time to time.....asuming you know more than you do, but just from time to time. It doesn't matter, you DO TRY and are appreciated. Nobody's perfect and again, the sincere effort is the important thing. KUDOS.

But you said: "if you want 'us' to help you." Who is "us."?

Sounds like you're saying 'me, and people who think and are situated like me.' You are making this 'insider vs. outsider,' whether you'd recognize that or not.

I've supported this program twenty years and have invested THOUSANDS. I'm a fan of VEGAS, (so is Kloverton) Do I get to speak, candidly??

Well, the WHOLE COMMUNITY is "US" and I've seen a range of people stepping up to help @Kloverton , and if the person who asks for help hits a brick wall, (and of course this is situational, but certainly not "aberational") and comes to the conclusiong that at some FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL the program is deeply flawed, and cannot compete technically with - not exotic features - but BASIC features, as per the "state of the art" EVIDENCED by similar NLE's in the same price range, then that person is told - by "WE/US" to basically SHUT UP. They are told, NO, it is YOU who have the problem. It's happened to me, multiple times, and it is a very self-serving and tired way of doing business, IMHO, and with all due respect, because we recognize that you DO make the effort to help. BUT YOU SOUND/ACT LIKE AN EMPLOYEE,and/or OWNER, (though you swear you're not) and/or control freak, and that should not be. Again, IMHO.

I've been on the Magix Samplitude boards for twenty years, quite active at times, and NEVER have I seen this sort of not very subtle brow beating and quasi bullying. I've never been "warned" like I have here for simple HONEST assessments, not product bashing. Kloverton is NOT product bashing, She(he?) LIKES Vegas. So do I. BASTA!!