Vegas hangs if you apply - VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope)

bitman wrote on 3/23/2023, 10:07 AM

Vegas hangs if you apply  - VST3 spectral denoise (izotope 10 or 9).

Hangs every time from the moment you apply that particular VST plugin, so it is unusable.

It should be easy to reproduce. See my signature for my system.

Media is coming from Sony RX10 III camera: 

Video: 00:00:11,040, 25,000 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, XAVC-S
Audio: 00:00:11,040, 48 000 Hz; Stereo, PCM

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Comments

Touchette wrote on 3/23/2023, 12:35 PM

Vegas hangs if you apply  - VST3 spectral denoise (izotope 10 or 9).

Hangs every time from the moment you apply that particular VST plugin, so it is unusable.

It should be easy to reproduce. See my signature for my system.

Media is coming from Sony RX10 III camera: 

Video: 00:00:11,040, 25,000 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, XAVC-S
Audio: 00:00:11,040, 48 000 Hz; Stereo, PCM

It's not only VST3 or VST2, not only Spectral Denoise and certainly not only iZotope.

Almost all plugins from both iZotope, Melda and other third parties do crash Vegas (from version 20 onwards).

De-ess, de-plosive, EQ, etc... they all do crash, freeze, destroy and mutilate both Vegas, the project and your timeline.

I did report many of those bugs, even in close contact with the devs - but Magix itself didn't answer.

They send me 10 (!) e-mails before answering with random stuff like "is your copy hacked" and "do you have a serial" and "send us the credentials" (over plain e-mail, yeah).

Finally they were willing to answer me (I did even de-compile their own codebase, required .DLL's and library enhancements) and told me "they were aware of the problem".

To list up the extreme issues with audio again and again;

  1. The plugin chain gets re-ordered (swapped) when you navigate through the tabs (destroying your output);
  2. The undo history is overflown with needless entries (up to 1.000 for one parameter change - causing Vegas to freeze);
  3. The GUI of the embedded plugins is redrawn every time you "undo" anything (even not related to the plugin and / or audio itself) causing major lags;
  4. The GUI of those plugins forces Vegas to crash or freeze when you toggle enable / disable by left-clicking (not by right-clicking);
  5. The timeline shows "ghostery" artefacts (vertical stripes and gaps) when third party plugins are active (making navigation almost impossible);
  6. Toggling enable / disable in the plugin chain checkboxes redraws the complete GUI where "rightclick / enable | disable" doesn't (with the exact same result);
  7. Rendering third party audio FX is extreme slow, compared to other DAW's (or the native codebase, like RX editor) sometimes even 25x slower (!);
  8. Even where VST3 is not active when there's no sound through the output (which is completely different than VST2, where the plugin listeners and sniffers are always armed), they still slowdown navigation through the timeline extreme (sometimes even a simple drag is executed only pixel by pixel);
  9. Envelope points (with third party plugins) do "magically" dissapear (or get slightly different values) when adding / adjusting a point "right from the point left".
  10. Etc...

So for everyone using audio in Vegas on a professional base; don't do it until those issues are fixed.

I narrowed down all the errors to the GUI / canvas / history-stack and redraw classes, but they refuse to answer to my findings.

There's something really totally f*cked up in the core of the codebase, since all those issues are 100% related to the same (and single) weakest point in the repo's.

Peterson wrote on 3/23/2023, 5:54 PM

Off-topic : somehow this forum keeps resetting my profile and session cookies.

On-topic : lol, after working about 16 hours for an edit of one minute long, Vegas did crash more than 50 times today.

Luckily I do hit "save incremental" every freaking minute and have auto-save set-up to save it every five minutes.

Just check the screenshot to see what happens if you "just" enable an FX like iZotope or Melda (VST2, VST3, etc... in Vegas 20).

Freeze, GUI interrupt, canvas redraw, buffer overflow, crash.

As you can see the embedded interface of the plugin "stops" being drawed at the borders (right and bottom).

Indicating an overflow in the parent software (Vegas), causing a white screen "flickering" every single time you "undo" or "redo" anything (which is completely useless, since it doesn't happen when you "rightclick and toggle enable state".

This makes working almost impossible (why am I even trying to stick with this software?).

Peterson wrote on 3/24/2023, 10:46 AM

Vegas hangs if you apply  - VST3 spectral denoise (izotope 10 or 9).

Hangs every time from the moment you apply that particular VST plugin, so it is unusable.

It should be easy to reproduce. See my signature for my system.

Media is coming from Sony RX10 III camera: 

Video: 00:00:11,040, 25,000 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, XAVC-S
Audio: 00:00:11,040, 48 000 Hz; Stereo, PCM

It's not a solution for your problem (VST3 from Melda / iZotope / etc... simply doesn't work in Vegas 20), but when a random (GUI) freeze happens, you can try to bypass it as follow;

  • The freeze always happens when enabling a plugin, this triggers the canvas redraw class which freezes the program (it even freezes / redraw when it's not necessary at all, causing major lags when editing).
  • The trick is to enable / disable the plugin not by clicking on the checkbox in the tab (from the plugin chain) but by rightclicking on that tab when the plugin itself is not in view.
  • As long as the plugin window is "invisible" Vegas doesn't crash, so you have to bypass the canvas redraw by settings it's on / off properties when out of focus.
  • You can do this by setting another plugin in view and then rightclick on the appropriate tab and set the on / off state (see first screenshot).
  • Also you can do this from the mixing console, which show all active plugin where you can handle them from there (see second screenshot).
  • NEVER TOGGLE THE STATE WHEN IN VIEW - IT WILL CRASH VEGAS

It's a real pain in the *ss that we have to work like this, but Vegas 20 isn't usable for audioprofessionals; it will crash and freeze whatever you do using a dedicated third party plugin.

bitman wrote on 3/25/2023, 4:51 AM

@Touchette @Peterson I cannot comment on your issues as you describe as above, which could be very real, and indeed an issue; but for now I want to point the focus on one VST3 plugin in particular as the post title suggest:

VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope). For me, it is the only one which does not work. It is the only one which lets my system hang from the very moment I add this plugin. No other Izotope RX10 plugins exhibit this behavior. All other plugins do not lead to a hang of Vegas when applied. I even updated the RX10 to v10.4.0) , but the issue still remains. I tried running Vegas 20 in administrator mode; I tried to change the audio device to all possible types in Vegas preference. Note that the spectral denoise works in sound forge pro...

Last changed by bitman on 3/25/2023, 4:52 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Peterson wrote on 3/25/2023, 6:05 AM

@Touchette @Peterson I cannot comment on your issues as you describe as above, which could be very real, and indeed an issue; but for now I want to point the focus on one VST3 plugin in particular as the post title suggest:

VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope). For me, it is the only one which does not work. It is the only one which lets my system hang from the very moment I add this plugin. No other Izotope RX10 plugins exhibit this behavior. All other plugins do not lead to a hang of Vegas when applied. I even updated the RX10 to v10.4.0) , but the issue still remains. I tried running Vegas 20 in administrator mode; I tried to change the audio device to all possible types in Vegas preference. Note that the spectral denoise works in sound forge pro...

I can confirm.

  • Vegas 20 with RX10 (VST3)
  1. Voice de-noise immediately freezes
  2. Spectral de-noise immediately freezes
  3. De-ess / de-click - will "random" freeze (when toggling state)
  4. All plug-ins will crash when you render a sound
  • Vegas 20 with RX09 (VST2)
  1. Almost all (and d​​​​​e-ess / de-click in particular) - will "random" freeze (when toggling state)
  2. ...and all the crashes / freezes I documented above

For me, I downgraded to RX09 (from RX10).

It did cost me another $ 1.500,- for the license, but RX09 does "work" (it still crashes / freezes about 15 times a day, but there are moments it works).

I also use Sound Forge, Studio One, Reaper and RX Editor - those work 100% without any limit, freeze or bug.

Sidenote : this is about iZotope only. Other plug-ins like from Melda (and iZotope) immediately do crash Vegas in less than one second when you "undo" a parameter from a plug-in (doesn't matter which plug-in or which parameter).

Looks like it has never been tested.

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 12:10 PM

PLEASE, DO NOT UPDATE TO THE NEWEST VEGAS 20

It makes the software even more unworkable and corrupt.

Please, see this thread;

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-please-fix-vegas-so-audio-professionals-can-also-use-it--140335/#ca880023

All the errors are even made worse now.

bitman wrote on 5/9/2023, 2:24 AM

@Peterson the new Vegas 403 build does not hang anymore when applying VST3 spectral denoise. I also tried Voice de-noise, and spectral denoise + voice denoise in any combination...

It also renders OK.

Obviously there are a lot of different render possibilities, source material differences and VST parameters you could set, but having a quick check it looks OK now.

So for me (on my PC at least) my original post stating "Vegas hangs if you apply - VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope)" seems fixed with version 403...

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

RogerS wrote on 5/9/2023, 7:35 AM

I see a slow redraw period when Spectral Denoise is activated and deactivated but no crash nor excessive number of undo states. It's the RX9 VST 2.

I'm not able to get RX 9 De-Ess or Declick to crash toggling it on and off while playing and adjusting settings. I'm testing on a AVC mp4 file with AAC audio if it matters.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Peterson wrote on 5/9/2023, 7:50 AM

@Peterson the new Vegas 403 build does not hang anymore when applying VST3 spectral denoise. I also tried Voice de-noise, and spectral denoise + voice denoise in any combination...

It also renders OK.

Obviously there are a lot of different render possibilities, source material differences and VST parameters you could set, but having a quick check it looks OK now.

So for me (on my PC at least) my original post stating "Vegas hangs if you apply - VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope)" seems fixed with version 403...

Really glad to hear that the update works for you.

But "other" plugins still triggers a lot of issues.

It looks like they solve each incident per plugin, in stead of writing a solid library for all the plugins.

Build 403 is totally unworkable for me, because;

  1. Undoing a history-state crashes Vegas (there are thousands of entries in the undo-stack)
  2. Changing a parameter in a 3rd party plugin (like Melda or LoudMax) is extreme sluggish now
  3. The order of the plugins in the chain gets corrupted when you toggle that state of a single plugin

I had to revert back to build 360 and freaking disable / enable my network every time Vegas launches (which I have to do very often, because even 360 crashes and freezes several times a day).

All problems are related to VST and memory / GUI management.

More info in this single tread; https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bugs-vegas-20-403-has-serious-workflow-bugs-for-audio-professional--140900/

rraud wrote on 5/9/2023, 10:29 AM

Are some of the plug-in's automation parameters enabled, even if one parameter is active, that could write many changes within a few milliseconds.

Peterson wrote on 5/9/2023, 2:14 PM

Are some of the plug-in's automation parameters enabled, even if one parameter is active, that could write many changes within a few milliseconds.

Sorry for the late response.

No, it has nothing to do with automation.

See this thread with more details and screen captures from other programs;

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-help-me-out-very-slow-performance-vst-plugins--140921/#ca880192

It's the exact same plugin, exact same settings, but only in Vegas 20 / build 403 it becomes unusable.

And it is with other 3rd party plugins as wel.

______________________________________________________________

Also, see the capture below.

I change one parameter (slider) and Vegas records hundreds of unusable undo-states (crashing and freezing the program).

In Vegas 20 / build 403 those states are now only "hidden" from view (when you choose "don't record undo states for FX") but still captured in memory (freezing the GUI as shown in the other post I mention here).

RogerS wrote on 5/10/2023, 1:45 AM

Are many undo states created for all VSTs you are testing or just a few? Trying to replicate here.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

bitman wrote on 5/10/2023, 2:36 AM

Please create a separate post about the VST undo state issue (or use one of Petersons threads).

My original post issue "Vegas hangs if you apply - VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope)" which was very reproducible, is solved by V20 build 403.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

walter-i. wrote on 5/10/2023, 2:55 AM

Please create a separate post about the VST undo state issue (or use one of Petersons threads).

My original post issue "Vegas hangs if you apply - VST3 spectral denoise (Izotope)" which was very reproducible, is solved by V20 build 403.

+1

@Peterson
I'm just a fellow reader here and also think it's better to stay in your own thread and not confuse other threads - and thus fellow readers.
You surely have a different system environment than bitman - so please stay in your own thread.

RogerS wrote on 5/10/2023, 4:27 AM

Honestly it's very confusing which thread is which given the basically identical text in each. I thought this was a Peterson thread just reading the most recent entries.

FWIW, I also tested spectral denoise in 20.403 and haven't been able to get it to crash. I also don't see excessive states being created here.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Peterson wrote on 5/10/2023, 5:54 AM

I created separate threads for it.

But to be honest, I created tons of tickets and threads for the same issues months ago.

And nobody listens, in build 403 things are worse than ever.

  1. UNDO bug - https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-vegas-records-extreme-amounts-for-undo-s-causes-lag-and-crash--140933/
     
  2. TEARING bug - https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-help-me-out-very-slow-performance-vst-plugins--140921

Sorry for inconvenience.

NickHope wrote on 5/10/2023, 6:39 AM

@Peterson You're not helping yourself by repeating the same thing at length in multiple threads. Rather than gain attention, the sheer volume of words and repetition creates confusion and makes your points an unnecessary effort to follow and digest. The repetition is also against community rule #3. You have 2 other "parent threads" on the go, and have more or less hijacked this thread to turn into a 3rd. Please keep threads concise and specific to the issue. Link back to a parent thread where necessary rather than repeat everything and, please, no more new threads unless it's about an issue not already covered by your existing threads.

Peterson wrote on 5/10/2023, 7:07 AM

I understand and already said "sorry".

Also I have "bundled" the issues by setting the subjects to 1#2 and 2#2.

Finally I did not haijack this by purpose, but some others were referring to the same (like) issues (which are all connected to the memory overflow, by the way).

But I understand your concerns, so I will not reply in this thread.

Last thing : I created tons of tickets, issues, phoned to Magix, spoke with devs and litterly no-one is listening (which is why I keep repeating these bugs - I do it for the best of us and future of Vegas).

 

👍