Vegas native stabilization vs plugins

bitman wrote on 1/11/2019, 5:25 AM

I have a bit of a luxury problem on choosing the "proper" stabilization plugin (or native Vegas 16 solution).

Over the years I acquired up with Prodad Mercalli V4, newblue stabilizer, and more recently Boris CC optical stabilizer, and the native Vegas, including the new one (on media effects only). The Vegas one, to be honest I have not used yet.

With "proper" I mean easy to use, slow down preview and render as minimal as possible, and best quality.

What are your preferred ones? I know Mercalli is popular, but I like to hear your opinions.

I can try for myself to see what is best, but I would like to know in my case which one to try out first as default as not to waste time trying out every method/plugin for each individual clip.

Last changed by bitman

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

Comments

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 5:59 AM

To my opinion: Mercalli 4 is still unbeatable, but has his price. VegasPro16 stabilizer is very close and free. At the moment, I wouldn't spend extra money for third party stabilizers.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Peter_P wrote on 1/11/2019, 6:02 AM

To my opinion: Mercalli 4 is still unbeatable, but has his price.

+1

j-v wrote on 1/11/2019, 6:10 AM

At the moment, I wouldn't spend extra money for third party stabilizers.

+1😉

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 10,12,13,14,15,16,17 and VMS PL 10,13,14,15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.70 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

Grazie wrote on 1/11/2019, 6:13 AM

@bitman Maybe it’s a case of choosing the right tool for the job in-hand? I’m not sure individual experiential “evidence” is gonna help? I don’t have any of third party Stabzers you speak of, save Merc. Plug and SA. I’d have embraced the new VP Stab but I’d need to keep switching off my GPU, so that’s not gonna happen. However, the new Edge treatments in VP are very exciting, similar to the original John Meyer Scripts I believe. But then again, VP is not ready for Event Level manipulations, read Gary’s comments. So..... I’m staying with Merc Plugin and, for all it’s flaws, the Merc SA.

Grazie

PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 40Gb NVIDIA  GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

bitman wrote on 1/11/2019, 7:45 AM

Thanks all, and by the way I do not need to spend money on the mentioned plugins as I already did over the years (hence my remark "luxury problem"). For example the Merc I had with VP14 (and I upgraded it to use it in VP15 + SAL)...

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 1/11/2019, 7:53 AM

Prodad Mercalli V4 Plugin is what i just always use. Best on the market and better than the native version included in Vegas, since you are simply asking.

 

bitman wrote on 1/11/2019, 7:57 AM

any thoughts on Boris CC optical stabilizer vs Mercalli?

Current system: VP 17 (edit), VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019, Davinci Resolve Studio 16 b...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 1/11/2019, 8:15 AM

No comparison bitman, Mercalli v4 is better in all its implementations over Boris CC optical stabilizer.

Kinvermark wrote on 1/11/2019, 9:33 AM

My opinion matches (pretty much ) others - Boris/Newblue are old and not quite up to the standard. Merc v4 is good but has some "issues" (see other threads) and the new Vegas stabilizer is very good at smoothing, but does not yet "lock down" for a tripod look.

For users that render out of Mercalli standalone, doesn't the extra render/export step worry you? (IIRC the render options are limited to lossy formats.)

Consider Davinci's stabilizer too if you are willing to adopt this kind of workflow (ie prep footage in Resolve; export to Vegas for editing.)

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 11:46 AM

For users that render out of Mercalli standalone, doesn't the extra render/export step worry you? (IIRC the render options are limited to lossy formats.)

In post stabilisation is also/always lossy. I have used Mercalli 4 SAL and Mercalli 4 plugin ( up to UHD media), never discovered a difference in quality of the final rendering result. The only disadvantage for the SAL is the needed storage place and extra time for rendering. For time and place saving you can do already the trimming in SAL.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Eagle Six wrote on 1/11/2019, 12:08 PM

For users that render out of Mercalli standalone, doesn't the extra render/export step worry you? (IIRC the render options are limited to lossy formats.)

Consider Davinci's stabilizer too if you are willing to adopt this kind of workflow (ie prep footage in Resolve; export to Vegas for editing.)

Mercalli 4+ SAL has ProRes 422 HQ available as an intermediate render option.

I use DaVinci Resolve 15 for project and like the built in stabilizer better than Mercalli or Vegas Pro, and for me it would be worth the round robin to Resolve back to Vegas if I was using Vegas Pro. Rendering to Quicktime DNxHD 10 bit in Resolve there is very little loss in quality.

From a testing stand point I think they are making improvements to the Vegas Stabilizer, so for those who haven't already got an alternative, and prefer not to spend the money, I think it would be a reasonable option for them to spend time learning the advanced features rather than face the learning curve of Resolve.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 pb2
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

Veg wrote on 1/11/2019, 2:02 PM

I prefer the native Vegas stabilizer (Legacy Stabilize) for the following reasons:

1. The analysis is fast and solid;

2. Works well on progressive and interlaced files;

3. It is applied as FX media in a subclip and so it is possible to apply slices or slow motion to the stabilized subclip without stabilization being lost.

4. Works correctly with resample enabled or not;

5. Works correctly on projects that contain media with different Frame;

6.Allows the project frame rate to be changed without the stabilization of the medias being lost.

 

Mercalli v4 is good but has the following limitations:

1.It does not work correctly on projects with interlaced files. It is necessary to define the project as progressive in order to work, yet the stabilization is not as good as it is in progressive files.

2.It is applied as Event FX and therefore it is not possible to make cuts or slow motion in the event stabilized without stabilization is lost.

3. In projects that contain media with different frame rates (eg, 23.976p and 29.970p) the stabilization is only applied correctly in events that contain the same frame rate of the project.

4.Change the project frame rate after stabilization causes the stabilization of events to be lost in the timeline.

5.Rendering with different frame rate of the project frame rate causes the stabilization to be lost.

 

NewBlue FX Stabilizer and BCC Optical Stabilizer do not give very efficient stabilization results.

 

I'm still testing the new Magix stabilizer to come to a conclusion. But at the moment I still prefer the Legacy Stabilize.

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 2:29 PM

@Joelson-Forte

You are aware that the legacy stabilizer is in fact Mercalli 2?

Despite the pros and cons in handling of the legacy stabilizer and the Mercalli 4 plugin you correctly mentioned, did you also compare the stabilisation results?

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Veg wrote on 1/11/2019, 2:38 PM

@3POINT

Yes, I'm aware. I've never had problems with the V2 mercalli. It always worked correctly. Unfortunately the Mercalli V2 is only compatible until version 13 of Vegas.

From version 14 of Vegas, only the Mercalli V4 is compatible.

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 2:48 PM

No, I didn't mean the Mercalli 2 plugin. I mean that the legacy Vegas stabilizer, which is still part of Vegas ( hidden now in VegasPro 16), that stabilizer is based on Mercalli 2.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Veg wrote on 1/11/2019, 3:06 PM

Yes. Luckily it's based on Mercalli v2. If it had been based on Mercalli v4 Maybe it had the same problems.

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 3:28 PM

Did you also try to stabilize 4k/UHD media with the legacy stabilizer?

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Eagle Six wrote on 1/11/2019, 3:28 PM

@Joelson-Forte Go Options > Hold down 'Shift' > Preference. 'Internal' tab. Search = stabilize, change the value from 'false' to 'true' in 'Expose Legacy Stabilizer', Apply, then OK. Now you have your old M2 stabilizer back.

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3 (overclocked 20%)
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 boot drive
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD - video work drive
Western Digitial 1TB 7200 RPM SATA - video work drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive

Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 10 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 pb2
SVP13, MVP15, MVP16, SMSP13, MVMS15, MVMSP15, MVMSP16

j-v wrote on 1/11/2019, 4:05 PM

+1 for the conclusions of @Veg, but not for the old one of Vegas.
Results of stabilizing with the new Vegas and the Mercally 4 that I also own as plugin and SA, are fast always equal when the same sourceproperties are used and the (temp) project is set to progressive. But not for different sources.
I try mostly both and use the best suited in each project for using through Vegasaur in batch.

met vriendelijke groet
Jan

Camera : Pan X900,GoPro Hero7 Hero Black
Desktop :AsRock Z270 Pro4, W10 , i7 7700K 4.2Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1050 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home, version 1903 build 18.362,295 CPU i7 7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 10,12,13,14,15,16,17 and VMS PL 10,13,14,15,16 are installed
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 431.70 Studio Drivers
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

Dutch video tutorials for beginners

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

3POINT wrote on 1/11/2019, 4:40 PM

+1 for statement j-v. I just did also some tests with the new Vegas plug-in comparing to Mercalli 4 with some old HDV and HD interlaced footage. Stabilisation results are almost equal, Mercalli zooms in even a little further than Vegas, nevertheless the picture of Mercalli looks a little sharper than Vegas. The same footage stabilized with the legacy stabilizer is even worser than the original when moving objects cross the scene.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108

Veg wrote on 1/11/2019, 5:55 PM

@Joelson-Forte Go Options > Hold down 'Shift' > Preference. 'Internal' tab. Search = stabilize, change the value from 'false' to 'true' in 'Expose Legacy Stabilizer', Apply, then OK. Now you have your old M2 stabilizer back.

Thanks @Eagle Six

I think I was one of the first to talk about this procedure together with @set, but I warmly thank you for your good intention to inform us.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/can-the-old-vegas-stabilize-be-made-to-appear--112755/#ca696653

Len Kaufman wrote on 1/11/2019, 11:10 PM

Mercalli V4 works best for me. Strangely, there is one setting in the SAL version that I can't find in the plug-in version...namely the one to stabilize vibrations/wobble. As I shoot frequently from helicopters, that's an important one for me. "Intensive repair" is another one that I can only seem to find in the SAL version.

 

Nick Hope wrote on 1/12/2019, 12:07 AM

This discussion wouldn't be complete without mentioning Deshaker. In my testing, reported on this old thread, I found the results to be at least as good quality as Mercalli V4. Operation of Deshaker has recently been made much easier with the AviDub script in Happy Otter Scripts. Deshaking demo video here. If you select one of the 3 "Deshaker-max....vdscript" settings files that are installed in C:\ProgramData\HappyOtterScripts\VirtualDub FilterSettings the quality is excellent (but they are comparatively slow, because everything is set for maximum quality).

With all these options, a stabilization challenge would be interesting. Anyone got some favorite shaky clips to share?

3POINT wrote on 1/12/2019, 12:07 AM

@Len Kaufman

The Plugin version of Mercalli 4 is actually divided in two seperate plugins: Mercalli 4 and CMOS fixer. Must be both installed, registered and attached seperately. In the SAL version it is combined.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909, Sony PXW-X160.

Software:VegasPro17/VegasMovieStudio16/PowerDirector16

Hardware:i7 4770, 16GB, GTX650ti, 1920x1200 display

Playware:Philips 55PFL7108